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Brian B.
sage
Reged: 07/26/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Saipan, Northern Mariana Islan...
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Hi everyone,
Well I finally got my new Oberwerk 15x70's out into some clear skies, and then my good friend (who shall remain nameless)snaps them off their tripod mount while slewing them around the Milky Way in Saggitarius.
He has offered to pay me for replacement, but before I take him up on it, I was wondering if I could get some opinions from the group whether this failure should have happened, or if it is perhaps related to a material defect.
The binoculars were mounted on Oberwerk's heavy duty L bracket, on a Bogen 3130 fluid head, with fairly high tension on the movement. My good buddy was moving the binoculars by pushing on the front of the lens barrels, rather than the tripod head rod. I didn't notice, because I was on the recliner with my new Nikon Action Extremes. He said he heard a pop, and the binoculars went limp on the mount. I checked it out the next day, tried to turn the brass mount bushing, and it fell out of the frame with a hunk of aluminum around the threads. I don't know if that was part of a bushing, or part of the frame, but it's apparently beyond reasonable repair.
So my question: Did my buddy break my binoculars? Does he owe me $150? or should I return them to Oberwerk due to bad materials? Should a pair of binoculars break in that fashion?
I want to know because if Oberwerk is going to charge me replacement due to misuse, I don't want to bother. I'll just apply the $150 to another pair, maybe the new Stellarvue 15x63 or the 20x85.
Anyway, after an hour or so of use, I'm hooked on big binoculars. And so are about 12 other people who got to look through them at the non-astronomy event I was using them at.
Thanks,
Brian B.
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"Ghosts??? I thought you said goats!"
SV102 (on SV M6 & GP-DX)
Nighthawk II &
Coronado PST (on UA Microstar)
Orion Starblast
Binos: 15x70, 10x50, 8x42
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StarWars
Postmaster
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 11636
Loc: At The Movies
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Check with the vendor you bought them from and see if they will give you a replacement. If not then sell the 15X70's to your buddy for $150.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
it is perhaps related to a material defect.
This may be a defective casting, or it may be all you can expect from China at the price point paid. You generally get what you pay for.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12581
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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If it turns out you think these are a loss, consider contacting Cory Suddarth at binofixer@aol.com. He may be able to fix them.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Seems to me you are responsible. If your friend was not abusing the binocs and they broke, it's your problem. If he was moving the binocs inappropriately and didn't know any better, again it's your fault for not teaching him the proper way.
He is very kind to offer to pay, a very good friend indeed. Don't allow him to pay for your mistakes. If you both use the binocs, you might share in the replacement cost, but from your description, if the dealer won't make good, then it's your responsibility.
Russ Schnitzer
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Brian B.
sage
Reged: 07/26/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Saipan, Northern Mariana Islan...
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You're absolutely right, Russ. He is a very good friend. I intend fully to refuse to allow him to pay me, but I know him well enough to know that he will also refuse to let me refuse, etc. etc... Also, I have already e-mailed Oberwerk wit the full story, to get their preliminary opinion if this will be warranty or out-of-warranty (misuse) service. So while I was interested in a bit of an ethics discussion, I was more interested in hearing from the group whether this is a type of failure one would expect from a good pair of binoculars. Has anyone ever heard of the tripod mount breaking off the binocular frame? Would the pressure exerted by pushing on the lens barrel be enough to cause that type of failure?
Brian B.
--------------------
"Ghosts??? I thought you said goats!"
SV102 (on SV M6 & GP-DX)
Nighthawk II &
Coronado PST (on UA Microstar)
Orion Starblast
Binos: 15x70, 10x50, 8x42
Edited by Brian B. (09/06/04 11:13 PM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
whether this is a type of failure one would expect from a good pair of binoculars.
No. Not a GOOD pair. However, these were probably not designed to be child-proof, either.
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10146
Loc: Lancashire UK
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There are of course , different "qualities" of built -in tripod adaptor.
Even between the facility on two Japanese binos I own and use regularly , the robustness of the spring -loaded version on the Swift Audubon 10 x 50s fills me with more confidence than the "fixed" arrangement on the Helios Observartion 15 x 70s.
Given the broad readership of this forum and the respective influences of such people , and recent history of damaged goods , wrong contents , etc , etc ,I suspect Oberwerk might have more to gain than to lose by simply replacing this binocular.
Regards , Kenny.
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Looking at my 11x70s, this area seems very solid. Everything has its breaking point...all proportional to the amount of leverage/force applied.
The amount necessary to break the fitting/frame/casting must be fairly high, high enough that one would hopefully recognize the force required being too high and/or the tripod being too tight.
It seems your friend would have recognized if it had been necessary to apply a substantial amount of force to move the binos. I would guess a weak casting as stated above.
Kevin at Oberwerk is very good to work with. He recently replaced a part on my pair which the warranty has long expired. Unless they are a complete loss, im sure he would work something out..no matter who you bought them from.
Id be curious to hear Kevin's response to your situation.
Good luck.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Have you considered a fatigue type failure? A small force applied repeatedly (cyclically) can cause a part to fail. Does the area of failure look crystaline? Fatigue failure usually, but not always, indicates poor design.
Russ Schnitzer
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16406
Loc: Brooker, FL
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I would hope fatigue didn't set in after just a few cycles...it is very possible, however that it was a bad casting.
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Brian B.
sage
Reged: 07/26/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Saipan, Northern Mariana Islan...
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I am still waiting to hear from Oberwerk. I will probably break out the calling card tomorrow and give them a call. With the several weeks required to ship/repair/ and ship back, I want to get started right away. My friend is still insisting on paying for it, but I have temporarily held him at bay by telling him the warranty might cover the damage, and that I don't think he did anything wrong. Upon further reflection, I really don't think the binoculars should have broken in that fashion. My friend is very certain that he was not pushing on them very hard.
thanks for all your input,
Brian B.
--------------------
"Ghosts??? I thought you said goats!"
SV102 (on SV M6 & GP-DX)
Nighthawk II &
Coronado PST (on UA Microstar)
Orion Starblast
Binos: 15x70, 10x50, 8x42
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Brian B.
sage
Reged: 07/26/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Saipan, Northern Mariana Islan...
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I received an e-mail from Kevin at Oberwerk today, saying that he has only seen this type of failure in cases where binoculars on a tripod have been knocked to the ground, and wondering, as some have here, whether it may have been a bad casting (taking my word on the binoculars not having been dropped). So he offered to take a look at them, and I will be shipping them back soon for him to do so. It may be a few weeks, but I'll update this post once I have more information.
Brian B.
--------------------
"Ghosts??? I thought you said goats!"
SV102 (on SV M6 & GP-DX)
Nighthawk II &
Coronado PST (on UA Microstar)
Orion Starblast
Binos: 15x70, 10x50, 8x42
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