Phillip Creed
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Reged: 07/25/06
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Loc: NE Ohio
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Dave,
With reports coming of visual detection of the tail streamers, now I'm kind of bummed that tonight's cloudy. I don't know if a Bortle Class 4 sky's dark enough to do the trick with a set of 25x100s, but it's something you might want to try capturing with 2- or 3-minute subs from a dark sky. You'll probably blow out the coma/nuclear region big-time, though...
Clear Skies, Phil
-------------------- "Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"
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ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
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Special Ed
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 3478
Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
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Quote:
This morning at 4AM EDT from Athens GA, it is most definitely larger; and photos are demonstrating that the halo is growing!!
The comet seems to have lost most of its initial yellowish tinging, appearing milky now. I am trying to estimate its size in 7x35 binocs. Nearby prominent pairs of stars I used for comparison were 5.15 mag 29 Persei and 5.03 mag 31 Persei, separated by around 8'; and 4.67 mag 34 Persei and 5.58 mag HD 21362, separated by about 20'. The comet seems to subtend the same overall angular size or perhaps just a bit more as the 8' separation between 29 and 31 Per. Still about as bright as 3.01 mag Del Per !
I was really surprised at how big the outer halo was when viewed at low power (15x70 binocs) in a moonless dark sky (I'm in a rural location with no LP). Checking and rechecking using the 4.4° FOV of the binoculars, I kept coming up with an angular diameter of 30 arcminutes or maybe a little more. Here is a low power sketch made by Rony De Laet in Belgium last night that accurately shows the same view of the outer halo and coma that I had.
I've read lots of different magnitude and size estimates for Holmes but I think that bright moonlight and/or LP dramatically affects visual estimates. I'm no expert, but from my dark, moonless skies last night, Holmes appeared significantly brighter than mag 3 delta Perseii.
--------------------
Michael Rosolina
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
   
Reged: 04/07/05
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Loc: Hurricane Alley
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It might just be averted imagination, but in my small scope, the comet is starting to look a bit more "comet-like" and the overall impression of the boundary between the pseudonucleus and the coma I would describe as "windswept".
Very interesting progression here.
-------------------- Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12510
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I went out again last night and spent a good deal of time observing, mostly with 16x70s but also with a WO80SDII at low powers. I made some sketches and took some measurements with detailed back and forth from binocs to scope to note-table (but paid a very uncomfortable price for the time spent and the up/down positions I needed to get into. Aching and some (little) common sense ended my observing. Afterward my night's sleep was disrupted several times by significant leg and hip pain. Rest this morning seems to be helping provide welcome relief).
Anyway, I made some comparisons of the star field around the comet to some known and measurable star fields. I took these measures in my scope at 40x, as the binocular fov was just too wide. Take note of the photo provided above by Olivier. Comet Holmes photo by Olivier Biot It represents the closest to what I saw in the 16x70s. Take particular note of the string of three stars pointing to the north (to the left towards 9:30-10:00). From the third star out, the faintest one, to the center of the comet measures almost identical as from Alcyone to star A10 on my M45 charts. That distance measures 43 arcminutes. As a verification that covered almost exactly one half the fov of my 12.5Ult in my WO80, approx 40 arcmin. From that, there is enough information to use as an estimating scale for size estimates. End result is that my estimate of the outer diameter of the coma is 11 arcminutes and the inner bright core is 3 arcmin.
The bright central 3 arcmin core is offcenter in the coma with more of the outer coma (4-5 arcmin) visible towards the north, the side near the bright nucleus. Also, the bright central core appeared not exactly round, but maybe more egg-shaped, with the narrow tip of the egg at the location of the bright nucleus. The south side of the outer coma ring is not rounded to a complete outer circular edge, unlike the north side. I see about 3 arcmin of coma to the south of the bright core. It's almost like the outer edges of a circular coma were unevenly blotted out slightly over a thin 1-2 arcmin wide cresent, almost as if the cresent were fully and evenly lit, the bright core would be centered in the coma.
Intersting was that several times I went back and forth from the 16x70s to my scope at 23x (21.5RKE) and 28x(18TakLE) and I could not easily notice any difference in the size of the object. Seemed the same to me until I bumped the scope up to 40x. The bright nucleus did indeed have a non-stellar appearance at 40x. Also several times I compared overall brightness to out of focus stars and still find a close resemblence to Gamma Per (mag2.6), but perhaps midway between Gamma (2.6) and Delta Per (2.9).
I had my 80mm scope mouted to a Microstar Atl/Az, so needed periodic adjustment. At 28x(18TakLE) and 40x(12.5xUltima), I "thought" more than once, as I moved the scope to recenter my view, that I saw an extended glow completely around the coma. The glow "seemed" more readily apparent and somewhat broader off the south (the dark cresent) side. I did not see this in the Fujinons.
I made several observations also with a pair of 10x50 Leupold Wind River Mesas (on loan from the most generous Walter Locke) and a pair of Captain's Helmsnman 7x50s. I used the smaller 10x and 7x binoculars both mounted and handheld. In the 7x50 is was difficult if at all to see the differentiation of the bright central core and the wider coma. It simply appeared as a bright diffuse extended object. In the 10x50s, for moments I could hold them still enough to at least notice a distinction between the brighter center and the fainter outer coma. The nucleus was not seen in either 50mm binocular.
The 7x50s provided a very nice widefield view that included the entire Alpha Perseus Association in the same view with comet Holmes, a pleasant escape from the views I made for detailed measurements. The 10x50s just barely covered this area, but the 7x50s did so with room to spare.
At one point I popped my new Agena 38mm/70° eyepiece into the scope for a 13x80 view. Even at that view I could make out the bright pinpoint nucleus.
edz
Edited by EdZ (10/31/07 03:39 PM)
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mdritchie
journeyman
Reged: 10/28/07
Posts: 7
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Just wanted to add that I definetly think I see the makings of a tail streaming out at least 1 diamater of the coma. It was just barely visable as a very slight brightening of the sky to the side of the coma. To make sure that I was not imagining it I checked to see if I could detect it when the coma was not in the field of view. I moved the Declination so that the coma fell outside the field of view of the eyepiece. Then I adjusted RA significantly and tried to detect the brightening. I was able to reliably identify where I thought I was seeing in as a slight brightening. On the other side of the comet I was not able to see the brightening.
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
   
Reged: 04/07/05
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Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Nice report EdZ. This comet is certainly worth many looks.
-------------------- Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
   
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1030
Loc: NE Ohio
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This is just a momentary aside.
With all the posts on this thread, I got curious about how it ranks.
Folks, we're #1! This has the most posts of any thread in the history of this forum. It's still #2 in number of views, but it's rapidly closing in on the Mars 2003 thread, too. It has left the Comet McNaught thread in the dust (no pun intended).
Give yourselves a pat on the back.
I now return you to your regularly-scheduled programming...
Clear Skies,
Phil
-------------------- "Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"
Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
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Special Ed
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 3478
Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
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Edz,
Thanks for posting your detailed report on the size, shape, and appearance of Comet Holmes. It agrees with my estimate last night of a coma diameter of 11 arcminutes. Our visual magnitude estimates are also similiar. The extended glow you thought you saw is definitely there given dark skies and low magnification. I hope you get to feeling better soon.
Phillip mentioned how popular this thread is. There are so many reports (here and in other threads) I can hardly keep up with them and would like to reply or comment more but the volume is just too great for my limited time, so I want to thank everyone for their contributions, analysis, and comments. It really helped me stay current on this dynamic event when I was under solid overcast for days as I'm sure some are now and I will be again.
--------------------
Michael Rosolina
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Dave M
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/03/04
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Loc: N.E Ohio
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Quote:
Dave,
With reports coming of visual detection of the tail streamers, now I'm kind of bummed that tonight's cloudy. I don't know if a Bortle Class 4 sky's dark enough to do the trick with a set of 25x100s, but it's something you might want to try capturing with 2- or 3-minute subs from a dark sky. You'll probably blow out the coma/nuclear region big-time, though...
Clear Skies, Phil
Yea!, i`m sure it would nuke it  Tomorrow and Friday look good at this point for imaging and another observation.
-------------------- Dave
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http://www.spacew.com/gallery/DM
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John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 348
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
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Latest images. First is a stack of about a dozen 10 second shots.
-------------------- John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
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John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 348
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
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Now my latest size compare- these are each 2 nights apart. The 1st 3 were taken around midnight, the latest at 8:30pm central time.
-------------------- John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
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Johnny D
sage
   
Reged: 12/11/06
Posts: 229
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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It looks to me that the bright, central (star-like) core has dimmed considerably. I'd say close to 1 magnitude since Sunday. Does that agree with your observations?
By the way... This thread rocks!
-John
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Old Dinosaur
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 05/08/07
Posts: 832
Loc: Out in the sagebrush
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I just came in from a long period at the EP. Sky here at my location is dark and pristine again. I didn't get to observe last night because of clouds and the first thing I noticed was the dimmer core nucleus. Still visible, but not jumping out like it had been. The side of the outer coma opposite seemed even more diffuse tonight also. The biggest change I saw was the increase in size of the dim halo. Just a rough estimate, but slewing back and forth across a 1° field it seemed to be at least 30' across. Filling the FOV in that EP just as a full moon. Using my 12.5 newt, a 35mm Pan gave the most pleasing view and brought out much of the halo. Just a stunning object.
-------------------- WRS Observatory
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Tuugii
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/22/07
Posts: 522
Loc: Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
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here is the image from yesterday. Canon Xti +0.63 fr, through 21":

Tuugii
-------------------- telescope=time machine...
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edcannon
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 675
Loc: Austin, Texas
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November 1, 5:50 UTC (12:50 AM local time), using defocused binoculars it's still somewhat brighter than delta Persei, so maybe +2.8 magnitude. Limiting magnitude -- I could see +4.4 magnitude sigma Per without binoculars.
I just learned about this thread!
-------------------- Ed Cannon - Austin, Texas, USA
As of 23 August 2008 - Celestron Skymaster 12x60
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akemag
sage
Reged: 10/26/07
Posts: 426
Loc: Sweden
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Wow was my word of choice when i got it into view at 45x! 90x were nice also...Before i read this thread i thought it wasnt going to be much to see. Boy was i wrong...
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novbabies
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Reged: 06/05/05
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Loc: Northern Georgia!
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Quote:
Now my latest size compare- these are each 2 nights apart. The 1st 3 were taken around midnight, the latest at 8:30pm central time.
John, looks like an inflating balloon!!!
This morning (11-1-07) between 3:50 and 3:56AM in Athens Ga, I caught it through clouds AND between clouds, and with the Moon receding and waning, the view in a darker sky through 7x35 binocs was just incredibly impressive. The true nature of Melotte 20 is becoming apparent, and the comet seemed to subtend an image of about 10' ! It is still brighter than 3.01 mag Delta Persei – in fact, seems a bit brighter today than yesterday – and I think it appears to be a little elongated this morning as well, but that was hard to tell for sure …
-------------------- Good Seeing!
Mark
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Jeremy Perez
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Reged: 08/12/04
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Loc: Flagstaff, Arizona, USA
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After a couple days off from observing the comet, I was treated to more stunning views. The moon was out of the sky, and Holmes was really showing its stuff. To the naked eye, it is a soft puff in Perseus. Through 15 x 70 binoculars, it is simply awesome, floating brightly amid a rich star field. Color is now hard to describe, but I think it looks like the most subtle aqua color. Through the telescope, it is wonderfully bright, and loaded with soft detail. The subtle outer halo makes the comet appear even brighter than it is, as though the radiance of the coma is lighting up its surroundings. The outer halo appears brighter to me along the southwest side. The coma sports a well-defined northeast side with a diffuse southwest edge. Its edges have a hairy appearance that looks like it is being blown gently to the southwest. Within the coma, the central condensation now looks detached from the pseudonucleus. Some very subtle radial features began to coalesce after 45 minutes of observing at 120X and 240X. I don't know if these are real structures, or just the cometary version of Martian canals. A brighter jet seemed to connect the now faint pseudonucleus with the detached condensation.
My measurements with the astrometric eyepiece are as follows:
* Central Condensation: 92 arc seconds / 1.5 arc minutes * Coma: 653 arc seconds / 10.9 arc minutes * Outer Halo: 1550 arc seconds / 25.8 arc minutes
The full report with labeled images and links to larger sketches can be found here.
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Jeremy Perez
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 1660
Loc: Flagstaff, Arizona, USA
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...and the 120X view.
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Orion SVP 6LT (6" f/8 Newt) || Orion XT8 (8" f/6 Newt) || 15x70 Oberwerk Binoculars
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12510
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Observations from about 8:30 to 10:00 PM, Oct 31,07
I had opportunity to observe again last night. Several instruments, but once again mostly with Fujinon 16x70, this time from a UA 6 degree mount from a seated position and again with my WO80 at 28x, 40x, and 50x.
Seems slightly fainter than previous night. My magnitude estimate still falls between Delta Per (2.9) and Gamma Per (2.6), but IMO now closer to delta Per. So I'd say mag 2.8 to 2.9.
Size has not changed from previous night. Yesterday I provided detailed measues and came up with a calculated estimated size of 11 arcmin and tonight it looks like it is still 11 arcmin. No outer faint glow suspected tonight, at any time, at any power.
Comet Holmes moved west or WSW approx 10-12 arcmin, or just about one diameter of the visible coma, since last night.
Nucleus seems to have dimmed. Last night it was readily apparent every time I looked with the 16x70s. Not so tonight. It was not nearly as apparent in any instrument at any power as it was the previous night. Also core looks ever so slightly dimmer. Nucleus was difficult to see at 50x in the WO80.
Nucleus was not seen at all in Fujinon 10x50, Leupold 10x50 or Helmsman 7x50. Contrary to what I reported yesterday, with the 7x50 Helmsman I was able to differentiate the brighter 3 arcmin core from the faainter outer coma.
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
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