Bill Mitchell
super member
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Cornwall Ont. Canada
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Hey! these binoculars are a cheap way to learn how to collimate a pair of binoculars.Don't be scared it's quite easy.Lift up the rubber covering, where the prism tilt screws are and turn one untill the image's merge.It's almost as easy as focusing a telescope.( I know it's not the best way but it's the only way with a inexpensive pair of binoculars.}Try it before you send a pair back you'll learn something, you'll be proud of.If you really screw them up you can still send them back.
Edited by Bill Mitchell (12/02/07 06:46 PM)
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 985
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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Hi, Bill, I suppose for $69. you can experiment and very possibly learn something.
Some things are more than they first appear though. For instance, how do you determine which side needs the adjusting? Do the fields of view coincide when merged? Can someone else with a different IPD look through your binoculars and see a merged image? How many times will the screws allow you to turn them before their heads strip?
$69 bucks will only go so far............
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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Bill Mitchell
super member
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Cornwall Ont. Canada
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If they need collimation no more than a 1/4 turn on either side will be sufficient.
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GPS11
SkyWatcher 8 in. Dob
Orion 100ED SVP
Meade 4500
William Optics 80FD
SkyWatcher 102 Mak
Orion Resulox 15 X 70
Zhumell 25 x 100
Zhumell 20 X 80
Denk 2
Mallincam Hyper Color Camera
Orion Resolux 10 x 50
Edited by Bill Mitchell (12/02/07 10:12 PM)
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mark22c
sage
Reged: 08/12/07
Posts: 343
Loc: cornwall UK
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at the risk of anoying a few here im going to say something, first off i dont want to offend anybody in any way and your entitled to spend your money any way you want, secondly im no optics "snob" and infact dont have much more than the $69 bucks you guys spent on these bins at the moment after splashing out on christmass pressies for the kids and a recent purchase for my dads birthday(a pair of 7x35 bins).
what is bothering me about this thread and others is the definition here of "cheap" and "expensive" ie for me "cheap" is of good quality at a reasonable price ie my top quality aria motorcycle helmet normally costing £500 new was procured for £275 new... i concider that cheap! and "expensive" costing more than the item is worth ie is no better than a "cheaper" item or is not all it says it is or could be, being far beyond my means could be concidered prohibitively expensive.
now heres another term "cheap and nasty" ie an item that pertains to be something it isnt, an item that is not fit OR in a very short time WILL be unfit for service,an item that is out performed by a similerly priced possibly smaller item an item that is almost allways bought by someone who either expects something for nothing or is inexsperienced. from what ive heard about these bins so far their made from the lowest quality parts left over, they are not multi coated and the only lens surface that is is so poorly done as to be almost or actually "reflective!" the true apiture is smaller than 80mm possibly 70mm, this added with the poor coatings probably reduces the efective ap to somthing along the lines of a 60mm, so what your left with is a very heavy 20x60 with poor collimation and build quality that may at best be aligned temporaraly if your lucky.
now "quality" an item that has been well made useing the best materials for the job, something that not only works but does so in a way that pleases the user and pleases time after time for years possibly even a life time or longer, an item that does not require calibrating/setting up by the new owner useing expensive equipment the end user does not have as it would be done allready and more will with proper use remain so... in another word quality could allmost be concidered in the "cheap" catogory due to the years of satisfactory service and pleasure as apose to the cheap and nasty route of replaceing said item with new "cheap and nasty" year after year and never enjoying the pleasure quality brings, not to mention the endless hours, weeks, years wasted searching for instead of enjoying said item.
cheap is good... but know the diferance between "cheap" and "cheap and nasty" patients is whats neaded not cash, even the poorest can save for a candy bar picking quarters up of the street... if you can afford $69 for binoculars you can keep saveing to buy quality, of course if you have no patients and must have bins now and they simply must be the biggest you can find im wasting my time and you can enjoy the endless fruitless twiddling of screws and bad optics that go with it and be $69 further behind in your saveing.
there is more to follow but i dont have time right now... feel free to bicker on about this post i really have more important things to worry about so im really not too bothered i just feel it a duty to piont out the negative side of these bins and keep things "real"
regards mark
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opticron "imagic" BGA SE 8x42 roof's
10x42 roof's
meade/bresser (lidl) 10x50 porro's
Edited by mark22c (12/03/07 12:25 PM)
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Some definitions of...
1. [cheap]...low in price, of little value or poor quality.
2. [good]... better than average, financially safe or sound, excellent of its kind.
3. [truism]...a statement of truth of which is obvious and well known.
For example...Good things are not cheap, and, Cheap things are not good. 
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Dave Hederich
sage
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 237
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Cheap can mean inexpensive, but it can also mean of poor quality or inferior. So cheap is not always the exact opposite of expensive.
Inexpensive is a more neutral counterpoint to expensive. But both expensive and inexpensive are relative terms depending on how much wealth one possesses.
Value is a good descriptive word to use in this discussion. Something is a good value if it costs less than you would expect for the level of quality and performance it delivers.
But there are also differences of opinion on what constitutes good value.
So putting the binoculars aside, semantics alone could keep this discussion going on for quite awhile. 
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Celestron C4-R 102mm Refractor
Tasco StarGuide 4 102mm Mak
Stellarvue BV3 Binoviewer + SV23mm EPs
GSO 1.25" 2X Barlow
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II Binoculars
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George Methvin
sage
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 406
Loc: Central Texas
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I got a pair of these $69.00 Zhumell and I could not be happer the views are outstanding very sharp great bargain. Gee for $69.00 why all the fuss I pay that much for a few drink with freind at happy hour. Some times in life you get a good thing some times you don't you get a lemon. Thats life but folks we are talking $69.00 here calm down. Have a freind that bought a new $55,000 brand name car has had it in the shop more time then I can count in the last year so it can happen to the best of things cheap or not. This is how world war start.....LOL
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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What make and model? I want to make sure my wife doesn't wrap one for Christmas! 
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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George Methvin
sage
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 406
Loc: Central Texas
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Yea don,t what those under the tree could cause you and your wife to split up and brake up your whole family. Gee all over a louisy $69.00 dollars. LOL
Edited by George Methvin (12/03/07 05:20 PM)
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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I was referring to the $55,000 automobile!
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (12/03/07 09:12 PM)
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cota_scope
sage
Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 356
Loc: sioux city ia
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Quote:
Gee for $69.00 why all the fuss I pay that much for a few drink with freind at happy hour. Some times in life you get a good thing some times you don't you get a lemon. Thats life but folks we are talking $69.00 here calm down.
i agree why all the fuss, john
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Cabin Fever? 
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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johndavid24
member
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 38
Loc: ohio
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Quote:
To resurrect the original purpose of this thread, I also picked up a pair of these just now. Couldn't resist the price of $69.
So, how are they? In a word, not bad (okay, that's 2 words). Edge correction is surprisingly good IMHO, again considering price. Coatings are okay, not great. The Zhumell web site is very careful not to say anything about the coatings, a philosophy followed by binoculars.com/telescopes.com. Interestingly, opticsplanet.com lists them as FMC. Not mine. Without surgery, I can only say that the outer objective and eyepiece surfaces are coated (bluish tint), but not multi-coated. Venus was definitely haunted (ghosting) when I looked at it this morning. But Comet Holmes was quite pleasant, as were M42 and M51. I couldn't make out much more owing to the late hour when I got out as well as more than my fair share of clouds.
Focusing was smooth enough, while overall construction is typical Far East. The reinforcing bar is weak and tough to lock in place, which caused the binoculars to pivot on the bar somewhat. Barrel alignment appears to be fine, despite the rather sloppy packing job.
But I don't want to be super-critical. Nope, they aren't going to replace my Fujinon 16x70s, but for 69 bucks, they are a decent deal.
Phil
Seems to be an fairly accurate description, mine come to a good focus on stars, Orion looks great , can't ask for more for so little! Whats with all the negative comments? If you don't like them ,you can get your money back,absolutly no reason to complain, but then... I know people that just like to complain for something to do??
ps: yes that means you
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mark22c
sage
Reged: 08/12/07
Posts: 343
Loc: cornwall UK
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ok first off let me apolagise if it seems im being to hard and let me explain the problem so far with these bins and others, as i SAID its your money not mine and you can do whatever you want with it, its none of my buisness.
the thing that does bother me however is the way some of you guys are describing these things ie very sharp, good coatings, wonderfull veiws, great bins fantastic, mine are fine well collimated ect ect really pleased with them... it begs the question ... just what are you comparing them to?
i had the same thing with some skymaster 15x70's a while back on another forum and ended up buying a pair because of posts like this, as a newby to bins i just didnt know what i was supposed to expect quality wise and after returning them four times to find that magical pair every one was talking about i gave up they were awfull stars were not pin pionts and were only fairly sharpish in the central 40%, ghosting false colour and internal reflections were all very apparent, collimation was a joke and even after being told by others how to "collimate"them by twiddling "one" of the screws for "perfect" collimation???? yes the images lined up but there were a host of other problems caused by my "collimation" attempts degradeing the image even further. with a little more experience i think i know enough to steer clear of rubish and at best useable gear and price has nothing to do with it im happy to look at any bins with a concideration to buy them but if their no good it doesnt matter if they cost $1 or a $1000 i wont buy them.
the last coment here about how sharp they are on "fuzzy" dso's makes me laugh and my sons cheap ranger revue 8x40's show everything you guys mention admitably a bit smaller.
in short if your going to rate a pair of bins you better make sure your darn truthfull about it realistic and know what your talking about, it doesnt matter how much they cost but it does matter how they perform if these bins are as "fantastic" as you say good on you i'll never need to spend $700's on a pair of fuji's which are "fantastic" if $69 will do it!
keep it real and people like me wont come along and burst your bubble, if i was robbed of $69 i'd be pretty upset!
another story about buying "cheap"... i bought a metal detector for me and the kids to use on the beach got it from a department store for £20... did it work? ... no! technicaly speaking it did as it would "beep" if you held it next to a big enough lump of metal, but try finding a coin under 1mm of sand ... no chance! several examples later i got my money back,... so what you may say? well my kids think metal detecting is rubish and have lost interest!!!
now i bought another from ebay for the same price new and this time bingo! it works... great, finding stuff all over the place rubish mainly but enough real money to at least pay for the batteries, sounds good eh? well not really, about 2 weeks later it starts playing up due to the advertised water proofness of the coil being false sea water has gotten in and ruined it, about that time i bought a set of LUYI 12x-60x x50 zoom bins again off ebay for £26, waist of money! very nearly put me off bins as well for life. luckily finding a pair of 10x50 meade/bresser's for £10 in a local supermarket chain lifted my faith in bins once more and i still have them, i've yet to find a pair costing less than £100 to match em, their not perfect but are opticaly quite good and render stars allmost sharp in the centre 50% and the next 30% isnt to bad... but! their starting to fall apart, collimation is allso starting to wonder after 4 months and i take good care of my stuff. so even if it seems good to start how long will it last?
regards mark
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opticron "imagic" BGA SE 8x42 roof's
10x42 roof's
meade/bresser (lidl) 10x50 porro's
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chuck56
super member
Reged: 01/21/07
Posts: 174
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
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I can't believe I'm reading all of this! I have a pair of those 20x80's but under a differnet name. They sure the hxll out of 12x50's. I'm very happy with the 20x80's but
there again I don't use them all the time I use my 10 dob.
I think anyone in astronomy should have a apair of binoculars just to play with and at the price of 69 bucks why not. Also if the only thing you plan on observing with just binoculars I would send the money and buy a real goood pair. Most people in astronomy have both a telescope and binoculars. I'm not sticking up for anyone but at that price you can't go wrong even if the optics aren't that good. Its up to the person and personal taste and his observing style. As for myself.. there just fine!
Maybe one day if I ever hit the lottery I'll buy a real good pair but until that time.. I'm very happy with them.
Had to put my 2 cents in!
Chuck
Chuck
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werewolf6977
Lord High Smasher
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 7444
Loc: Hanover, Ohio
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Could this all relate to the fabled "level of satisfaction"?
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Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop
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George Methvin
sage
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 406
Loc: Central Texas
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LOL sorry the car was a Volvo and once you drive it off the lot its your you can't take it back and get your money back. Out of the year he has had its been in the shop a lest 4 months out of that year. At lest with most astro things if there is a problem you can send it back and get you money back. LOL
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Geoge,
Tell your friend that the computers in the Volvos are programmed to think "very cold" weather. Driving one in "very hot" Texas, it probably thinks it died and went to a "very bad" place. 
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2110
Loc: Washington, USA
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"If they need collimation no more than a 1/4 turn on either side will be sufficient." -- Bill Mitchell
Hi, Bill:
Would you please share with me the source of that statement?
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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eklf
sage
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Carrboro, NC
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Perhaps Bill Mitchell meant conditional allignment and not collimation?
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7X35,10X50,12X60,20X80
8” Dob
Binoviewer, mirror mount,P-mount
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