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arowana
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/02/06
Posts: 2724
Loc: Pleasant View,Tennessee
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I just think it wrong to advertise such a thing and not deliver a product to that spec.
They dont say that there binoc's are fully collimated,aligned,centered whatever.... So one would not be able to hold them to that.
But as EdZ posted, he had disected binoc's that claimed to be FMC on the optics and only the objectives were. Poorly,but were.
Thats just wrong.(Not you EdZ,what they did)
And Zhumell's ad state's on there 20x80's that they are FMC optics.
CS's
Joey
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Orion 80-ED Refractor
Astro-Tech 66-ED
Atlas EQ-G
Moonlite Focuser's on all scopes
ADM accesories on everything
Edited by arowana (11/03/07 04:50 PM)
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2110
Loc: Washington, USA
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Quote:
but implying that they have FMC optics is just wrong if they dont. CS's Joey
Joey: Welcome to our world! And there are more than manufacturers waiting to steer you wrong and some who WOULD turn you against the very people who COULD and WOULD help you most.
Again, in advertising, you don't have to be accurate--just believed!
Cheers,
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10146
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< I just think it wrong to advertise such a thing and not deliver a product to that spec. >
Joey ,
You are absolutely correct to think that .
< They dont say that there binoc's are fully collimated,aligned,centered whatever.... So one would not be able to hold them to that. >
-- good point ! --
--but I suppose it COULD be argued under sales of goods acts that any binoculars NOT correctly aligned cannot serve the purpose they were intended for -- i.e for looking at objects through , using BOTH eyes --
-- preferably the SAME object or objects -- and not , as Bill C so amusingly exaggerated about the other day -- with one side aiming at Texas while the other side is pointing towards London ! :-)
Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2110
Loc: Washington, USA
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Hi Kenny:
I remember you asking me if I had decided what I wanted to get my master degree in. Well, I was thinking about Technical Communications or Graphic Design. However, I have come to believe—based on need--that there would be a greater future in psychiatry.
Cheers,
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10146
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< Hi Kenny:
I remember you asking me if I had decided what I wanted to get my master degree in. Well, I was thinking about Technical Communications or Graphic Design. However, I have come to believe—based on need--that there would be a greater future in psychiatry. >
Yet another case of " message understood " :-)
Regards
Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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OvidiuDanut
super member
Reged: 09/25/07
Posts: 126
Loc: Romania
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Well, my real philosophy is to pay an extra buck and get something decent. But these things were so cheap that i ordered actually several pairs.
Finally, after reading all the valuable information provided by some of the most experienced users here, i decided to cancel the order.
Thanks for your really valuable input.
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When we look at the immensity of the Universe we start to see ourselves smaller and smaller...
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edcannon
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 679
Loc: Austin, Texas
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Quote:
Again, in advertising, you do have to be accurate--
just believed!
I'm sure there's a typo there, that Bill meant you *don't* have to be accurate -- just believed. It's a shame but unfortunately true to at least a significant extent. It's been true since the time of the Roman Empire at least; they are the ones who said, "Caveat emptor!" Let the buyer beware! (There probably are equivalent statements somewhere in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and Sumerian cuneiform.)
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Ed Cannon - Austin, Texas, USA
As of 23 August 2008 - Celestron Skymaster 12x60
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10146
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< Finally, after reading all the valuable information provided by some of the most experienced users here, i decided to cancel the order.
Thanks for your really valuable input. >
Ovi ,
My personal opinion is that you were wise to do so , and brave to admit doing so on this forum .
That news will gladden a few hearts around here .
Regards
Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2110
Loc: Washington, USA
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I can't think of a single country that wouldn't have a few pawn shops. ATMs could tell you where they are. If you trust your senses you can make your money further.
A few years ago, I noticed a 1907 among the $29.00 plastic paperweights. It's cost was $6.00. I sold it for $250. The person I sold it to sold it to a collector in Japan for $500.
And, YES, I can sleep very well. I told these people what they had BEFORE I bought it. Their response: "We don't have anyway to VERIFY that; so do you want it?
I did.
Cheers,
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2110
Loc: Washington, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Again, in advertising, you do have to be accurate--
just believed!
I'm sure there's a typo there, that Bill meant you *don't* have to be accurate -- just believed. It's a shame but unfortunately true to at least a significant extent. It's been true since the time of the Roman Empire at least; they are the ones who said, "Caveat emptor!" Let the buyer beware! (There probably are equivalent statements somewhere in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and Sumerian cuneiform.)
So, Ed you presume to moderate my unquestioned journalistic prowess!!!!! BLESS you!!!! That was an important one to screw up. My "Friend" Kenny doesn't correct me on specifics; he just makes fun of me in GENERAL terms! But then, after what nature did to him, I can understand him wanting to share the wealth. 
Cheers, and THANKS, again!
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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edcannon
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 679
Loc: Austin, Texas
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Again, in advertising, you do have to be accurate-- just believed!
I'm sure there's a typo there, that Bill meant you *don't* have to be accurate -- just believed. It's a shame but unfortunately true to at least a significant extent. It's been true since the time of the Roman Empire at least; they are the ones who said, "Caveat emptor!" Let the buyer beware! (There probably are equivalent statements somewhere in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and Sumerian cuneiform.)
So, Ed you presume to moderate my unquestioned journalistic prowess!!!!! BLESS you!!!! That was an important one to screw up. My "Friend" Kenny doesn't correct me on specifics; he just makes fun of me in GENERAL terms! But then, after what nature did to him, I can understand him wanting to share the wealth.
Cheers, and THANKS, again!
Bill
Bill, you are very welcome! I thought about a PM but wanted to emphasize your point and add the "Caveat emptor" saying. ... And just now I remembered what P.T. Barnum said, which was much less diplomatic than what someone else (Abe Lincoln?) said about how much of the time it is possible to fool how many people.
--------------------
Ed Cannon - Austin, Texas, USA
As of 23 August 2008 - Celestron Skymaster 12x60
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2110
Loc: Washington, USA
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Quote:
Bill, you are very welcome! I thought about a PM but wanted to emphasize your point and add the "Caveat emptor" saying. ... And just now I remembered what P.T. Barnum said, which was much less diplomatic than what someone else (Abe Lincoln?) said about how much of the time it is possible to fool how many people.
Ed:
Long too late, I have come to realize that the most precious lessons I ever learned came at the hands of those I refused to heed, because I was a young know it all and KNEW it all. Today, as I witness the softness of their wisdom in their hardness with me, I wish I could reach out to them. Yet, it is long to late. All, I can do now is try to give to others what has been given so freely to me.
Thanks again.
Bill
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Falcon Birder
super member
Reged: 04/16/07
Posts: 111
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Quote:
In fact , I propose a new forum rule -- NO member is allowed to use the word COLLIMATION until they have at least 100 posts to their name -- how about that ? :-)
Regards
Kenny
What is COLLIMATION?!   
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Zen-Ray SUMMIT 10x42 WP
Swaroski 8.5x42 EL
Leica 8x32 Ultravid
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 11919
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A severe digestive disorder. See your doctor.
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mttafire
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/02/06
Posts: 1114
Loc: midwest
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Quote:
A severe digestive disorder. See your doctor.
I had that once...Till i got collimated.
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God Bless America
Binocular astronomy
for me ONLY.
8x45 Garretts
15x70 Skymasters
2 eyes!
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camvan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 2086
Loc: British Columbia
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OH MAN! Joad, Fire...you're too much!!! 
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Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2110
Loc: Washington, USA
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Some of the people I have spoken with lately, understand so little about collimation, I think most of them could do with a collimoscopy . . . 'specially if they're over 50!
Cheers,
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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mark22c
sage
Reged: 08/12/07
Posts: 343
Loc: cornwall UK
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i had a bout of collimytus a few weeks back but thanks to some professional advice now have it under control 
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opticron "imagic" BGA SE 8x42 roof's
10x42 roof's
meade/bresser (lidl) 10x50 porro's
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PhilH
sage
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 233
Loc: Long Island, NY
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To resurrect the original purpose of this thread, I also picked up a pair of these just now. Couldn't resist the price of $69.
So, how are they? In a word, not bad (okay, that's 2 words). Edge correction is surprisingly good IMHO, again considering price. Coatings are okay, not great. The Zhumell web site is very careful not to say anything about the coatings, a philosophy followed by binoculars.com/telescopes.com. Interestingly, opticsplanet.com lists them as FMC. Not mine. Without surgery, I can only say that the outer objective and eyepiece surfaces are coated (bluish tint), but not multi-coated. Venus was definitely haunted (ghosting) when I looked at it this morning. But Comet Holmes was quite pleasant, as were M42 and M51. I couldn't make out much more owing to the late hour when I got out as well as more than my fair share of clouds.
Focusing was smooth enough, while overall construction is typical Far East. The reinforcing bar is weak and tough to lock in place, which caused the binoculars to pivot on the bar somewhat. Barrel alignment appears to be fine, despite the rather sloppy packing job.
But I don't want to be super-critical. Nope, they aren't going to replace my Fujinon 16x70s, but for 69 bucks, they are a decent deal.
Phil
--------------------
Phil Harrington
"Binocular Universe" Columnist, Astronomy magazine
Author: Star Ware || Star Watch || Touring the Universe through Binoculars || et al...
http://www.philharrington.net
http://www.observingsites.com
"Two eyes are better than one!"
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photonovore
Moonatic
Reged: 12/24/04
Posts: 2472
Loc: tacoma wa
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Quote:
(PhilH)Without surgery, I can only saw that the outer objective and eyepiece surfaces are coated (bluish tint), but not multi-coated.
These would not appear to be the same as the Barska X-Trail 20x80 that i have (which can be had for ~100$) as these *do* have multicoated objectives/ep (and single coated elsewhere). FWIW, a review of the Barska version of these 20x80 is located here. I have had these now for a year and my opinion has not changed with much further use from the time the review was written. The only modification these required was the addition of a small shim to the objective end of the center bar pivot. Otherwise they have been good performers and a joy to use--particularly so since i modified an old DX-80 alt-az refractor mount with slo-mo's for them.
 
They are simply a rock on this mount.
As far as "collimation", all i can say is that these have always 1)shown one star image per star and 2)have never given me a headache after extended use. That is about as "collimated" as a binocular needs to be-- for my enjoyment anyway.
Last spring i took a copy of EdZ's coathanger mag chart with me on one of my trips to my fave dark sky site and although i neglected to make any notes (my bad but the exercise was made just to satisfy my own curiosity) i do recall being distinctly *un*dissappointed at the limiting mag they brought in.
So, after a year of regular use I remain quite pleased every time i drag these "doorstops" out to observe with and, for some inexplicable reason, feel no urge to "upgrade"--at all.  Point being that binocular observing can be enjoyed at more than one optical quality level. IMHO of course... 
--------------------
Mardi
4" achromat, ETX-70.
Whitepeak Lunar Observatory Website
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