BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Quote:
KennyJ wrote:
Just in case any future reader of the above becomes confused , your Swift is a 42mm model , not a 22mm !
Easy enough to edit :-)
Thank you for correction on the Swift aperture size. I have already changed it.
Quote:
By the way , when viewing moving objects from very close range , I think lower magnification , more comfortably within it's shortest focus range , is easier on the eyes and brain .
And thank you for the suggestion that the discomfort (of viewing moving objects from very close range) may be related to the magnification and focus range differences of the two binoculars--more than anything else?
That does make sense. I have noticed that when I view moving objects with the Swift Audubon porros at a greater distance, 50 meters/yards or more, the discomfort is not present.
. . .
However, I just repeated the butterfly test at a close distance with the Minox HG 8x33 BR roof, another compact roof from the field tests. The level of discomfort with the Minox 8x33 roof, like the Leupold Katmai 6x32 roof, was minor compared to the Swift Audubon 820ED 8.5x44 porro.
So whatever is contributing to the discomfort of the Swift porro when observing moving objects at close distance, is not an issue with the Minox or Leupold roofs under the same observing situations.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
Edited by BobinKy (08/26/07 04:22 PM)
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Luigi:
Thank you for reminding us that no review is as good as the review we conduct personally in the field.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2699
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Quote:
whatever is contributing to the discomfort of the Swift porro when observing moving objects at close distance, is not an issue with the Minox or Leupold roofs under the same observing situations.
Could it just be that the objectives in the smaller binoculars are closer together?
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Rich N:
Thank you for the suggestion of narrowing the barrels (reducing interpupilary distance) when focusing upon a close object.
Yes, the Swift 8.5x44 porro has less depth of field/focus than either the Leupold 6x32 roof or the Minox 8x33 roof.
. . .
I did as you suggested and kept the Minox, as well as the Leupold. Now, I ain't got much left in my pockets. 
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Bob A (SD):
Thank you for clearing up the question of whether the Leopold Katmai has Bk-7 or Bk-4 prisms. I did not mention that in my field tests earlier.
. . .
I will have to bookmark the blog of John Riutta. It looks like his blog could be interesting reading. We both like the American author John Steinbeck, winner of the Nobel Prize for literature.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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Bob A (SD)
sage
Reged: 07/16/05
Posts: 331
Loc: Black Hills of South Dakota
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Quote:
Bob A ,
Thanks for that link to the John Riutta statement .
I feel I can breathe a little easier now ! :-)
Regards , Kenny
Kenny,
Always a pleasure:) BTW John recently left Leupold which is a shame. He was the designer for the Gold Ring HD and non-HDs, Katmai series, and Yosemite series bins among others.
--------------------
Bob
N44°0'19" W-103°18'8"
-Intes-Micro MN56/Moonlite CR2/Antares 8x50RACI
-SkyWatcher EQ6 SynScan v3.21/Hanna saddle head/Casady saddle/Losmandy dovetail
-StellaCam II/10" RS monitor/Hauppauge WinTV-USB2/Mogg 0.6X
-Speers-Waler SWA 5-8/10/24.7mm; Russell SWA 13/19mm; Kunming SWA 32mm; UO Abbe 5/7/9mm; TV PowerMate 2.5x
-Criterion RV-6 Dynascope
-Bins: 7x42B SLC; 8x32DCF-WP/9x21UCF; BD6.5x32IF; 9x35IF GoldRing/8x30Yosemite; Orion 9x63;
8.5x42 11°; 7x35s 11.5°, 11° & 10.5°; 6x30 12.5°
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Rich V:
Thank you for clearing up about the potential drawback of the 3D effect of porros when observing at close focus, as the eyes strain to converge the two images (foreground and background). While nice at a distance, the 3D effect is not so nice at close up distances. And yes, I kept checking my Swift 8.5x44 porros to see if they were out of collimation. So far as I can tell--they are not.
I also have an old Nikon Travelite V 8x25, which I think is a reverse porro. I will go back outside in a few minutes and see how it does on the close-up butterfly test.
. . .
You're right. On a bright sunny day like today, the Nikon Travelite V has less discomfort than either the Leupold or Minox roofs, and way less than the Swift porros. Amazing. Just the ticket for butterfly chasing, as long as the close focus is 10 ft or greater.
However, the negatives of the Travelite include a FOV of only 5.6, exit pupil size of 3.1mm, and close focus of 10 ft. I can get closer to the butterflies with the Leupold and Minox, which have 5 ft and 6 ft close focus ranges.
. . .
And yes, at distances of 50 yards or greater, the Swift 8.5x44 porro does provide comfortable views--once you get used to the twist-up eye cups that only lock in the up or down positions, not in between these two extremes.
. . .
Thanks for your helpful comments.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10146
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< Kenny,
Always a pleasure:) BTW John recently left Leupold which is a shame. He was the designer for the Gold Ring HD and non-HDs, Katmai series, and Yosemite series bins among others.>
-- in that case -- John is clearly a very talented man !
Is it public knowledge where he his career move has taken him ?
Regards , Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Quote:
Mark9473 wrote:
Could it just be that the objectives in the smaller binoculars are closer together?
That's a thought. As I get closer to the dragonflies and the butterflies the barrel distance does get proportionally greater. I had not thought of that.
Thanks for the suggestion.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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Bob A (SD)
sage
Reged: 07/16/05
Posts: 331
Loc: Black Hills of South Dakota
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Quote:
< Kenny,
Always a pleasure:) BTW John recently left Leupold which is a shame. He was the designer for the Gold Ring HD and non-HDs, Katmai series, and Yosemite series bins among others.>
-- in that case -- John is clearly a very talented man !
Is it public knowledge where he his career move has taken him ?
Regards , Kenny
I don't think its any secret that he's left. But he hasn't mentioned where he now is that I know of. I didn't want to press the issue. This came up during an exchange earlier this month when John was helping me nail down history on my Gold Ring 9x35IF bins.
BTW his actual capacity was as product line manager for all binoculars and spotting scopes, as well as the birding market as a whole, for Leupold.
--------------------
Bob
N44°0'19" W-103°18'8"
-Intes-Micro MN56/Moonlite CR2/Antares 8x50RACI
-SkyWatcher EQ6 SynScan v3.21/Hanna saddle head/Casady saddle/Losmandy dovetail
-StellaCam II/10" RS monitor/Hauppauge WinTV-USB2/Mogg 0.6X
-Speers-Waler SWA 5-8/10/24.7mm; Russell SWA 13/19mm; Kunming SWA 32mm; UO Abbe 5/7/9mm; TV PowerMate 2.5x
-Criterion RV-6 Dynascope
-Bins: 7x42B SLC; 8x32DCF-WP/9x21UCF; BD6.5x32IF; 9x35IF GoldRing/8x30Yosemite; Orion 9x63;
8.5x42 11°; 7x35s 11.5°, 11° & 10.5°; 6x30 12.5°
Edited by Bob A (SD) (08/27/07 01:16 PM)
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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Everyone:
Thank you for the two pages of suggestions and comments on the differences between porro and roof binoculars while following moving objects at close range.
I think many good reasons were mentioned for the discomfort I experienced as I focused upon flying dragonflies and butterflies in my back yard.
In the future, when I plan to do such close range viewing, I will first reach for the roof binoculars--which was the original purpose of this thread.
. . .
I also want to say, because of the interest in this thread--I have had to postpone my review of the Garrett Signature 22x85 HD-WP binocular until sometime in September.
For that review, I am now making a list of the various field tests I plan to carry out with the Signatures. One of which may be daytime observing of raptors in the palisade cliffs above the Kentucky River. For that field test, if I actually do it, I will have to pack the 10-lb 22x85s, along with the Bogan 3246/501 tripod/mount, over a 1/2-mile secluded nature trail. 
I welcome any suggestions for other daytime or night sky field tests for the Signatures. If you suggest it, and I can find it, then I will try to report it. I will post a new thread asking for field test suggestions.
. . .
Regarding this thread on compact roof binoculars--I think we should put it to rest. It has been great fun and I have learned a great deal from both the field tests and the excellent comments from those who participated. 
Goodbye.
--------------------
Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
Edited by BobinKy (08/27/07 10:06 AM)
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5312
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Quote:
< The 8x would also seem to have less depth of field/focus than the 8x. >
Rich N. ,
I must be in a particularly picky ( or evil ) mood tonight ! :-)
Regards , Kenny
Thanks, Kenny! Change made.
Rich
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Bob and all,
In my brief test I mentioned that the Leupold Katmai 6x32mm was not as sharp out to the edges as the Minox. I should have noted it earlier that it is possible to bring the outer edges into focus with the 6x. (I'm wondering if the same can be done with the Katmai 8x and 10x as well?)
The Katmai's quicker focusing does seem to come in handy for tracking birds in flight, and airplanes.
Some other binocuars, mostly porros I think, that have been tested previously, on CN, found the outer edges somewhat useless, at a certain point.
The more that I use this little bino, the more impressed I am with it, especially considering the price.
Once again, I have to say Thank You to Bob for doing the testing, and for helping me to decide to finally order it for my wife. 
BTW one of the reasons she likes it so well is the fact that all her life her vision has been rather poor and limited. With the Katmai 6x she says it like having a new set of eyes that SEE things better than ever. 
If I'm not careful, I might just end up buying an 8x or 10x for your truly.
This little thing is really addictive!  BOB!
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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KennyJ,
I'm finally discovering the benefits of low power binoculars.
Imagine that!
Perhaps it's time for a 7x50mm.
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (08/29/07 09:48 PM)
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Country road
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hallelujah:
I am so glad you and your wife continue to enjoy the benefits of the Leupold Katmai 6x32.
Yes, it truly is an amazing binocular. Everyone should have a pair on their shelf.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Everyone,
Earlier I mentioned that the Katmai 6x32mm was not as sharp as the Minox BD 8x44 BP, and, in another post, for the Fujinon 7x42mm CD, I mentioned that the Katmai 6x was giving me eye strain in my left eye.
I sent the Katmai in to the Leupold Service Dept. for a check-up, and in eleven working days they sent back another brand new replacement, under warranty. (Just got it this evening)
Hopefully that will take care of the eye strain and the sharpness problem.
Just thought I would let you know about the excellent warranty service and the turn-around time.
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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davidmcharg
member
Reged: 05/29/05
Posts: 96
Loc: Scotland, UK
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Over the years i have used many many binoculars but a few years ago i picked up a pair of Zeiss B/GA T* ClassiC 8x30 and they are simply a stunning small pair of binoculars. For bird watching, walking, traveling you name it i always reach for this little pair of binoculars.
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Televue 85 & Starbeam
35/24 Panoptic, 17/12 Nagler T4, 9/7 Nagler T6
8,6,5,4,3 Radian and 3-6 Nagler zoom.
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1660
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Just a very brief comment...
The new binocular that we received is much better, as far as the eye strain is concerned, although, I can still feel very slight discomfort in my left eye when using it. Possibly it is something inherent in this make and model. Since it is my wife's binocular, and she has no problem with eye strain, it is a minor point at this time.
The sharpness is very good, but, still not as good at the Fujinon 7x42mm CD.
As a male with somewhat large hands the compact Leupold Katmai is easy to use but still on the small side.
Even the Fujinon CD is smaller in my hands than anything else that I own.
(I think that this is "one" of the reasons for my liking porro prism binoculars so much, they fill the hands nicely, and give more to hold on to, which helps to dampen and minimize handshake for me).
Of the two, I definitely prefer the Fujinon CD best overall.
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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orbitaljump
super member
Reged: 01/29/06
Posts: 120
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Its unfortunate that Leupold didnt produce a Gold Ring 9x35 CenterFocus porro.
Damn SHAME!
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German Flak Glasses 10x80
Fujinon Polaris 16x70 FMT-SX
Minolta Standard 10x50
Nikon Prostar 7x50
B&L US Milspec Rubber Armor 7x50 (probably Fuji manufacture)
Fujica 7x50
Taylor Mark 2 7x50
Swift Commodore Mark 2 7x50
Swift Audubon 804R 8.5x44 FMC
Optolyth 10x40 Ceralin Plus
B&L Zephyr 9x35
Taylor Mark 2 9x35
Carl Schulz 9x35
Kowa Wide Angle 10 degree 7x35
B&L Zephyr 7x35
Taylor Mark 2 7x35
Optolyth 8x30 Ceralin Plus
Taylor Mark 2 8x30
Nikon Sportstar III 8x25
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Steph1001
journeyman
Reged: 09/28/08
Posts: 5
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I have a Zeiss Victory 10x25 and it has been by far my most used binocular since I purchased it, stunning optics, wonderful collimation, built to last forever and a cracking design, they really feel special.I know what they are designed for: daylight observation, full stop.
There is a very big gap in bulk/weight between true compact in the 20-25mm range and the bigger 30-32mm binoculars.I own a pair of Pentax 8x32 DCF SP and I would never call them compact.I have also used a Zeiss Classic 8x30 and it is not exactly something I would put in my pocket...
Not sure if the new ultravid 8x20 or 8x25 are any better than their Zeiss or Nikon equivalent but trust me a top compact binocular is a wonderful optical instrument.
I hope this helps.
Stéphane
Edited by Steph1001 (11/29/08 07:23 AM)
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