Nightknight
member
Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 74
Loc: The great pacific northwet of ...
|
|
Seems like this would've come up a lot, but for the life of me I didn't find it discussed much in the forums. Maybe I searched on the wrong terms.
Anyway, I'm setting myself up with a nice new f/10 11" SCT with a wonderful little WO66SD guide/wide field scope on top. With all this great new gear, I've been pondering (read: obsessing) getting some new eyepieces. I have been looking at the Baader line with some interest, and am thinking I would like a short (~5mm) ortho for planetary, and either the 8-24mm Hyperion zoom or the 8, 17, & 24mm fixed with a set of the fine adjust rings to fill in between that and the longer fl eps I have now. I like the idea of a zoom to take with the WO66 as a grab&go setup, but the idea of the apparent view field narrowing as you zoom out bugs me. To those who use the HZ or other zooms in this range, especially on short fl teles, does this actually bug you or is it really not a big deal? As to image quality, for those of you who have used both the zoom and fixed Baader Hyperions, any big diffferences?
I may end up with all of them eventually, plus one of the aspherics, but for now I'm trying to not buy everything in the catalog.
--------------------
You can only talk astronomy with astronomers. Everybody else just yawns.
|
BillP
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/06
Posts: 2244
Loc: Vienna, VA
|
|
I wanted a complete range of FLs in the Hyperions, and I like higher powers as well, so what I did was got the 5mm and 8mm fixed and added a 14mm fine tuning ring to those to make them 4mm and 6mm which is better suited for my high power end. Then I got the 8-24 zoom to fill the 8mm spot, and also the 13, 17, and 24 fixed. So in thinking of the zoom as just an 8mm (with some special versatility), I have 4, 6, 8, 13, 17, 24 -- a nice complete range.
With this setup, I find myself going out with 1/2 the set depending on my observing for the evening. If I'm going to do more DSO and cluster and star field observing, then I take the 24, 17, and 13 only, and the 2.8 Klee barlow to get me up to high powers if I choose. If I'm doing just lunar/planetary then I cart out the 4, 6, and 8-24...plus the 2.8 Klee again. I find the zoom is invaluable to adjust on the fly as the atmosphere wavers to keep the best planetary picture I can.
Then there are times, like traveling, and all I take are 2 eyepieces and a Klee barlow...the 8-24 zoom and the 40 Paragon.
On the zoom, the afov is pleasantly wide from 8mm-16mm. 20mm is okay. 24mm is too small and basically the afov opes so wide between 24 and 20 that the tfov is the same at either setting. Also, at the 8mm setting, I feel the zoom is optically actually a little better than the fixed 8mm.
So yes, the afov shrinking is bothersome from 20-24mm, but the reduction from 8mm to 16 is not a big deal. Given the flexibility of what you can do with this eyepiece, its superb optical sharpness across all its settings, it's hard to imagine not having it in the arsenal now.
So for me it is a matter of moods and the zoom is perfect for this. If I feel like playing around and taking my time and puting eyepieces in and out, then the fixed ones come out with me. If I feel like observing and not futzing with equipment, then the zoom comes out and can serve as a one eyepiece show with the 2.8 Klee. For travel, it's nice not having to cart an arsenal of EPs. So basically, once you get a zoom with a good wide afov like the Hyperion, hard to remember how you got along without it.
--------------------
250mm f/4.7 Orion XT10i Dobsonian
102mm f/8.0 Tak TSA Super-APO
66mm f/5.9 WO ZenithStar SD APO
40mm f/10 Coronado P.S.T.
|
novbabies
Postmaster
Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 15678
Loc: Northern Georgia!
|
|
The Hyperion Zoom 8-24 does have a good reputation...
I have opted for EPs in the FLs I think will be of most service, though. I have the 21mm, 13mm, and 5mm Orion Stratus (equivalent to Hyperion) plus a few more I use regularly.
One last item: with a system FL of 110", the 8mm EP will give somewhere in the vicinity of 340X, a magnification I find I can only use on a few very good nights...
--------------------
Good Seeing!
Mark
Orion 12" XTi f/4.9
VERY old Edmund 6" f/8 reflector
Assorted binoculars
|
Lawrence Sayre
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 3704
Loc: N.E. Ohio
|
|
I think the major drawback to zooms is their restrictive FOV at their widest focal lengths.
--------------------
My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
|
Marco Meiling
super member
Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Hellevoetsluis, Netherlands
|
|
I am in the same quandary.
I have always used a LV Zoom 8-24 that is, until it hit the pavement once  and shards of glass flew everywhere.
I can still use it, but with about 10 black spots in the FOV where tiny shards have gone missing out of the eyelens.
Being a planetary and double-star freak I have looked at UO-ortho's from KK direct at EUR 28,50 a pop.I looked at TV-plossls. But for my grab and go I decided on again a 8-24 zoom. From Televue this time (dioptrx-ready, that being the only reason), supplemented with a 5 powermate and 32 plossl would go a long way in helping me create MY grab-and-go eyepiece set. YMMV 
--------------------
My new scope just arrived from it's maker, and guess what 5 cloudless nights predicted, yippie
Petra: 10-inch homebuilt Dob
Lola: Vixen A70/900f
|
havane45
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/28/06
Posts: 627
|
|
Quote:
I think the major drawback to zooms is their restrictive FOV at their widest focal lengths.
+1
I can't wait for the upcoming Leica 9mm-18mm wich will have 60° - 82° AFOV
Laurent
|
Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 10960
Loc: Los Angeles
|
|
I just did a search and came back with over a thousand posts. How much more chatter could there be?
--------------------
Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
|
Nightknight
member
Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 74
Loc: The great pacific northwet of ...
|
|
BillP: Thanks for the rundown on where the afov does most of its shrinking. And the opinion on the optical capability. Seems I can safely consider the HZ as a good 8-20 and decide based on that.
Novbabies: Good point as to just how much the shorter fl's can get used- being able to back off easily with the zoom if the seeing gets dodgy is worth considering
Lawrence Sayre: Yeah, losing afov was a major sticking point with me too. Really helped to find out where the necking down occurred.
Marco Meiling: Dioptrix-ready is a feature I haven't been really thinking about but is another good point. Your grab-'n-go set sounds really good- I was interested to see the 5X Powermate in there-
Havane: Ooh, a Leica! Oh, the price! I jest- maybe I should look at this as well, although I too can't really wait (different infllection)
Starman1: I guess I meant I couldn't find what I wanted specifically on the Baader Hyperion Zoom vs fixed, I did try searching on just "zoom", and "zoom vs fixed" and stuff like that and got a bunch of returns, but after going through 5-6 pages of it I wasn't getting my instant gratification. Sorry if I'm mucking up the bandwidth-
--------------------
You can only talk astronomy with astronomers. Everybody else just yawns.
|
BillP
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/06
Posts: 2244
Loc: Vienna, VA
|
|
Quote:
...I guess I meant I couldn't find what I wanted specifically on the Baader Hyperion Zoom vs fixed, I did try searching on just "zoom", and "zoom vs fixed" and stuff like that and got a bunch of returns, but after going through 5-6 pages of it I wasn't getting my instant gratification. ...
Well, I know I put a post here someplace after I 1st got the zoom. Anyway...after some searching finally found it - hurray (not to worry in asking again as it's often way laborious trying to go thru all the past muck and conversing on the topics is why we are here in the 1st place).
link
(Bill, I took the liberty of shortening your link so readers don't have to scroll back & forth to read thread)
--------------------
250mm f/4.7 Orion XT10i Dobsonian
102mm f/8.0 Tak TSA Super-APO
66mm f/5.9 WO ZenithStar SD APO
40mm f/10 Coronado P.S.T.
Edited by csa/montana (11/10/07 03:13 PM)
|
DNTash
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/02/07
Posts: 635
Loc: New Delhi, India
|
|
BillP -- this is an excellent string. I was trying to figure out how to attach the exact string yesterday to another post. How did you do that? Are there any instructions anywhere (I couldn't find them in FAQ)?
Nightknight -- the HZ is new for me, and has been fun to use. I don't find the narrowing view at the wider field a problem. I usually start with a 32mm plossl, then put in the zoom. I do like the fact that the field widens as you zoom in. But for a finder scope, it may not suit your purpose. Now if someone made a 16-32 zoom.....
--------------------
WO 66 Doublet
Meade ETX-90PE
WO "Crayford-ed" Orion 120ST
SkyMaster 15x70's, Meade Safari Pro 8x42's, Nikon Monarch 10x42's
|
jdownie
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/24/06
Posts: 737
|
|
Put a "+" in front of each search term, to require all ["and" in Boolean terms].
--------------------
ATM project - a terrible waste of good Pyrex.
|
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Posts: 12070
Loc: San Diego, California
|
|
My thinking... Don't have the Hyperion Zoom, I have the standard Vixen 8-24mm zoom. I think it is pretty good in a slow scope but in my WO ZS66SD it is not as sharp as something like the 7mm Nagler. In my experience/thinking, one needs a set of fixed focal length eyepieces and the zoom should be an addition to the set.
Jon
|
andydj5xp
sage
Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 384
Loc: 52.269 N/10.571 E
|
|
Quote:
In my experience/thinking, one needs a set of fixed focal length eyepieces and the zoom should be an addition to the set.
Jon,
for me it's the other way round.
A premium zoom for high power work and a set of fixed focal length eyepieces - wide or ultrawide - for medium to low magnifications.
My set: Leica 22-7.3mm barlowed 1.75x to be 12.6-4.2mm, WO UWAN16 (solo, barlowed 1.75x, and 2.5x), and UWAN28.
Telescope is 140mm f/7.
Andreas
--------------------
TEC140 (#216)
Leica 22...7.3mm zoom, barlowed 1.75x (12.6...4.2mm)
Zeiss AbbeII set with Barlow 2x
WO UWAN16, also barlowed 1.78x (9mm)
WO UWAN28
|
havane45
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/28/06
Posts: 627
|
|
I completly second Andreas's point of view (can you believe it  ) with the Leica and a 3-6 Nagler as I do not barlow.
The only difference is that I use a 26 Nagler and a 13 Ethos (waiting for it since a few weeks  ) instead of the 16 and 28 Uwan wich are fine eyepieces too.
Laurent
|
Nightknight
member
Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 74
Loc: The great pacific northwet of ...
|
|
BillP - Thanks! That's just the sort of thing I was looking for- great review!
DNTash - I too have a longer fl ep I use for wide views and getting myself oriented. Thanks for your input!
jdownie - also good info I may need someday!
Jon Isaacs - Never know- may end up with both eventually! Happily it seems a win-win every which way!
Andydj5xp - Good setup. I may do something similar and add a short fl orthoscopic for detailed planetary obs on the exceptional seeing nights.
havane45 - The short fl zooms are intriguing all right. Maybe someday. Sounds like your ep budget is bigger than mine at the moment...!
Thanks everybody! This discussion has really helped!
--------------------
You can only talk astronomy with astronomers. Everybody else just yawns.
|
Ron B[ee]
Tyro
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 4719
Loc: CA
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
In my experience/thinking, one needs a set of fixed focal length eyepieces and the zoom should be an addition to the set.
Jon,
for me it's the other way round.
Andreas
Umm, sounded like generalization  .
Andreas I too find that high power zoom like the Nagler zoom is in a totally different class than the Vixen zoom (I have the Tele Vue version). Just last night, I used my 2-4mm Nagler zoom on Mars and my 4mm TMB SuperMono yielding pretty much same clarity.
Ron B[ee]
--------------------
5-inch Tele Vue NP127 APO 
4-inch Tele Vue TV-102 APO 
8-inch f/6 Discovery PDHQ Dob 
|
andydj5xp
sage
Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 384
Loc: 52.269 N/10.571 E
|
|
Quote:
I may do something similar and add a short fl orthoscopic for detailed planetary obs on the exceptional seeing nights.
Erich,
I've thought about this continuously over the years. My last attempt was a TAK LE 5mm.
here
The result was a slight edge for the barlowed Leica with the additional advantage of 65° AFOV at 5mm focal length and 18mm eyerelief. Not to mention all the other focal lengths available just by twisting the mag ring.
Andreas
--------------------
TEC140 (#216)
Leica 22...7.3mm zoom, barlowed 1.75x (12.6...4.2mm)
Zeiss AbbeII set with Barlow 2x
WO UWAN16, also barlowed 1.78x (9mm)
WO UWAN28
|
andydj5xp
sage
Reged: 05/27/04
Posts: 384
Loc: 52.269 N/10.571 E
|
|
Quote:
I too find that high power zoom like the Nagler zoom is in a totally different class .....
Ron,
the TV Nagler zooms are indeed VERY good. In 2004 I've done some comparisons against the barlowed Leica
here
and the performances were equally impressive.
Andreas
--------------------
TEC140 (#216)
Leica 22...7.3mm zoom, barlowed 1.75x (12.6...4.2mm)
Zeiss AbbeII set with Barlow 2x
WO UWAN16, also barlowed 1.78x (9mm)
WO UWAN28
Edited by andydj5xp (11/12/07 04:58 AM)
|
Ron B[ee]
Tyro
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 4719
Loc: CA
|
|
 Andreas! Say that's a great review and a fine looking 115mm there!
Ron B[ee]
--------------------
5-inch Tele Vue NP127 APO
4-inch Tele Vue TV-102 APO
8-inch f/6 Discovery PDHQ Dob
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 