Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 915
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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I currently have a pair of Canon 18x50 IS binoculars - which I love and use pretty frequently. When I was a kid, though, I had an old pair of university optics 80mm binos - I LOVED these - but if you looked at 'em too hard they lost collimation. (An exaggeration - but not by much.)
Anyway, much as I love the canon's, I'm thinking I should get some bigger binoculars. (I miss my old 80mm binoculars!) Leaving price out of the consideration, I'm trying to decide between 80mm and 100mm binoculars. I am pretty sure that I do want:
- 45 degree viewing angle
- tripod mount
- really easy and fast to "grab and go", ideally I'd just leave 'em mounted, and grab the binoculars on the tripod, carry it down 4-5 stairs, and be set up 2 minutes later.
- really comfortable to use, especially for star hopping to objects. (If they are non-scary for my guests, so much the better.)
What I can't decide on is 80mm vs. 100mm, and brand. I know that I'd see more with 100mm binoculars - aperture rules. But I also fear that these are going to be quite a lot heavier than 80mm's. And at the end of the night, smaller aperture + used > big aperture + unused...
Or maybe I'm worrying over nothing with the 100mm binoculars?
Based on perusing this forum, I'm kind of thinking about either Garrett or Oberwork - but really I'm open to suggestions.
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Harry Jacobson
super member
Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 156
Loc: 42º29'32.03"N 71º34'59.85"W
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Quote:
...And at the end of the night, smaller aperture + used > big aperture + unused...
If money's no object but weight and 45 degree viewing is, and you want to leave it set up for grab-'n-go you ought to consider the Miyauchi 20x77 "Exceed" Bs-iB Binocular at 6.5 lbs. A compromise in weight vs. objective diameter, it's on my wish list.
One of many possible bino-tripod-head combos is the Exceeds (6.5 lbs) + Bogen 3021 tripod (6.5 lbs; capacity 13.3 lbs) + Bogen 501HDV head (3.5 lbs; capacity 13.2 lbs). Total weight 16.5 lbs. That's my dream combo.
My dream combo's grab-'n-go weight of 16.5 lbs is about equal to the weight of the Oberwerk 80mm 45° Binocular Telescope by itself.
Harry
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Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 915
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Oh thanks Harry - I wasn't aware of the Miyauchi. The weight of that combination sounds very manageable indeed.
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DeepSpace67
sage
Reged: 05/13/06
Posts: 448
Loc: Kansas City, KS, USA
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Might want to consider the Apogee 88 RA. 90 degree, pain-free viewing, and a simple light home-made mount will do. This is proving to be my ultimate grab-and-go, but the price has gone up to $629, $130 from what was paid just 3 weeks ago! Has OpticsPlanet been reading these posts? 
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Matthew
10" Antares Dobsonian, 8x50 RACI, Telrad, Green Laser
Apogee RA-88-SA, Custom Mount, Green Laser
Garrett Gemini Lightweight 11x56 Binoculars
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Rick M
member
Reged: 01/14/05
Posts: 70
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA
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Scott,
You may want to consider the Miyauchi NBA-Saturn IIs. They have the 45 degree viewing, interchangeable EPs and are very lightweight. At 8lbs, they can be mounted on most of the better tripod/head combos out there. I have mine mounted on a Universal Astronomics Millenium (way overkill) parallelogram.
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Rick M
Leica 7x42 BA
Leica 8x20 BCA
Leica 10x30 BA
Pentax PCF III 7x50
William Optics 7x50ED
Fujinon 10x70
Miyauchi NBA-71 Saturn II
Garrett Optical 20x110 Signature
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Pat G.
sage
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 355
Loc: Sunny Southern Ontario
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Quote:
If money's no object but weight and 45 degree viewing is, and you want to leave it set up for grab-'n-go you ought to consider the Miyauchi 20x77 "Exceed" Bs-iB Binocular at 6.5 lbs. A compromise in weight vs. objective diameter, it's on my wish list.
One of many possible bino-tripod-head combos is the Exceeds (6.5 lbs) + Bogen 3021 tripod (6.5 lbs; capacity 13.3 lbs) + Bogen 501HDV head (3.5 lbs; capacity 13.2 lbs). Total weight 16.5 lbs. That's my dream combo.
My dream combo's grab-'n-go weight of 16.5 lbs is about equal to the weight of the Oberwerk 80mm 45° Binocular Telescope by itself.
Harry, you mean something like this?
I use this set up a lot.
Almost every clear night and some mornings I go out for a quick tour. For me, grab 'n go has to be light weight and a joy (comfortable) to use. I don't want to deal with chairs, p-mounts, or several eyepiece combos.
I use the 30X about 95% of the time.
I have telescopes for extended viewing sessions.
A question in the original post was 80 or 100mm binos?
I can't help there because even though I love my 77mm Exceeds, I have been lusting after the used 100 mm Miyauchi Galaxy's in the classified section.
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Patrick G
Celestron NS11 GPS
Tele Vue 102
Miyauchi 20x77 binos
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Harry Jacobson
super member
Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 156
Loc: 42º29'32.03"N 71º34'59.85"W
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Patrick,
Yeah, I mean something like yours! Grab-'n-go! I won't quibble about the 7% drop in light gathering from 80mm to 77mm. Scott K's original question included his judgement that "at the end of the night, smaller aperture + used > big aperture + unused..."
I appreciate your object of lust: At 13 lb the 100mm Miyauchi Galaxy needs beefier tripod and head: Say a Bogen 3046 tripod (9.2 lbs weight, capacity 26.5 lbs) and Bogen 503HDV head (4.4 lbs weight, capacity 17.6 lbs), totaling 26 lbs. About equal to the Oberwerk 45° 100mm Binocular Telescope by itself!
Harry
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4421
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Weight and money aside,
I would go with 100mm binoculars.
100mm is probably the biggest "practical" binocular available (yes, I know that I have the 25x150s, but from a cost and size standpoint, they are very specalized and not very practical); and if your get the 77-80mm binocs, you will alway want the 100mms and will get them later anyway.
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3358
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
100mm is probably the biggest "practical" binocular available
110mm binoculars are 16 lbs so they are practical with a good mount.
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Pentax PF-80ED
Meade 102ED APO
Orion EON 72
120ST
Apex 127
C6 XLT
CR150
C9.25
XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL
Canon 10x42L IS WP
15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45
Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
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Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 915
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Quote:
I appreciate your object of lust: At 13 lb the 100mm Miyauchi Galaxy needs beefier tripod and head: Say a Bogen 3046 tripod (9.2 lbs weight, capacity 26.5 lbs) and Bogen 503HDV head (4.4 lbs weight, capacity 17.6 lbs), totaling 26 lbs. About equal to the Oberwerk 45° 100mm Binocular Telescope by itself!
That's certainly a lot more practical, it seems to me, from a grab-n-go standpoint than the Oberwerk 100mm binocular telescopes. (I saw the weight of the oberwerks, and decided "too heavy for true grab-n-go for me.")
The ultra-light 77mm Miyauchi's are tempting too. Decisions decisions... 
Thanks everyone for all of the great advice! I have missed having big binoculars.
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4421
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Quote:
Quote:
100mm is probably the biggest "practical" binocular available
110mm binoculars are 16 lbs so they are practical with a good mount.
I would define "practical" as a mount and binoculars that can be moved/transported with relative ease by the user. This will vary a lot from user to user-some would define this as 15x70s on a small mount, others the BT-100.
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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Harry Jacobson
super member
Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 156
Loc: 42º29'32.03"N 71º34'59.85"W
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Quote:
....I would define "practical" as a mount and binoculars that can be moved/transported with relative ease by the user. This will vary a lot from user to user-some would define this as 15x70s on a small mount, others the BT-100.
edj
I agree.
From my own experience unfortunately the new user may not possess the wisdom of what will truly work for them for grab-'n-go. They must gain experience to understand what works best for themselves!
I'm a beefy guy. I would think at first lugging a 26+ lbs 100mm grab-'n-go setup workable. Much as I'd prefer the benefits of 100mm objectives my acquired wisdom from long experience tells me I'd use the 16 lb dream grab-'n-go combo with 77mm objectives more often.
With all due respect to this valuable resource, reading advice on Cloudy Nights can only go so far. The user new to some aspect of this hobby doing research on Cloudy Nights must keep that in mind. If in your first acquisition you luck into the perfect combo, consider yourself lucky. You should be prepared to accept the greater likelihood of imperfections in your choices. You may then spend more $$$ to make your setup(s) more perfect based on your own hard experience. GAS - Gear Acquisition Syndrome - Wes James in another thread. Just my own experience.
Harry
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2457
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Quote:
From my own experience unfortunately the new user may not possess the wisdom of what will truly work for them for grab-'n-go. They must gain experience to understand what works best for themselves!
I'm a beefy guy. I would think at first lugging a 26+ lbs 100mm grab-'n-go setup workable. Much as I'd prefer the benefits of 100mm objectives my acquired wisdom from long experience tells me I'd use the 16 lb dream grab-'n-go combo with 77mm objectives more often.
With all due respect to this valuable resource, reading advice on Cloudy Nights can only go so far. The user new to some aspect of this hobby doing research on Cloudy Nights must keep that in mind. If in your first acquisition you luck into the perfect combo, consider yourself lucky. You should be prepared to accept the greater likelihood of imperfections in your choices. You may then spend more $$$ to make your setup(s) more perfect based on your own hard experience.
Harry- your words of wisdom shared here are probably the best verbalization I've seen of the issue of asking for advice. Obviously, a newcomer should ask for all the advice he can get- as should even those more experienced... but the bottom line is, it's gonna be a different answer for each of us. You really nailed it on the head in a most succint manner. We can read all the "Consumers Reports" there are out there to be read, but at some point we have to take that step- take a chance, and hope what we choose is ideal for eacn one of us as individuals.
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Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 915
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Quote:
I agree.
I'm a beefy guy. I would think at first lugging a 26+ lbs 100mm grab-'n-go setup workable. Much as I'd prefer the benefits of 100mm objectives my acquired wisdom from long experience tells me I'd use the 16 lb dream grab-'n-go combo with 77mm objectives more often.
Well luckily I've got a range of telescopes, so I'm pretty familiar with what I can handle. Currently I have a 105mm ETX (14lbs + tripod), an 8" LX200 (37lbs + tripod) and a 12" LX200 (71lbs + a HEAVY tripod). So I know which of those three I use the most for a quick look!
I agree, the lighter 77mm Miyauchi setup sounds like something I'd use more regularly, too. I have to keep in mind that I'm handicapped (I walk with a cane sometimes) and so the weight of what I'm carrying matters a lot. I didn't think that the 100mm oberwerk BT was going to really be practical for me - the weight of the binocs + head + tripod is likely pretty close to my 8" LX200. I can setup my 8" LX200 alone pretty easily - but it's not really "grab-n-go" for me, if I'm totally honest with myself. (And it's easy *not* to be honest with yourself when considering gear!)
Anyway, I sincerely appreciate all the feedback in this thread - you've helped me a LOT. And I wasn't aware of the Miyauchi binoculars at all - they sound super! I take it these are really great performing 77mm binoculars? How would those compare with their 71mm f/8 Saturn II binoculars?
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4421
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re Harry's words of wisdom above.
I always wonder why some prefer binoculars instead of telescopes, or dobs vs refractors vs SCTs, or Fords vs Chevys, or blonds vs brunettes vs redheads. It is a mater of preference which defies logic.
When I express an opinion, is is a composite of my experiences, dreams, wishes, and "common knowledge". It works for me-usually, but may not mean anything to anyone else.
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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Harry Jacobson
super member
Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 156
Loc: 42º29'32.03"N 71º34'59.85"W
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Quote:
...It's a matter of preference which defies logic.
Yeah, kind of like religion.
Wait a sec; getting lost viewing the sky is tantamount to religious experience.....
My binoculars are holier than your binoculars.... For me 
Respectfully,
Harry
P.S. Do you ever wonder about the flame wars on this forum? Personally I espouse there are better things to do. If accused of occasionally participating I will confess to same.
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1811
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Quote:
I take it these are really great performing 77mm binoculars? How would those compare with their 71mm f/8 Saturn II binoculars?
The Saturn II's will provide a sharper image - mainly because we're talking about an F8 achromat vs. an F5 (not sure exactly what the Exceeds are but they're at least that fast), but the Exceeds do....exceedingly well. I prefer the 30x EP's as they have a wider AFOV (in other words the 20x EP's don't gain as much TFOV as you would expect because the AFOV is smaller).
The Saturn II's are longer and heavier and will require a heavier mount, especially if there's any wind around. I use my Exceeds on a Bogen 3180N tripod/head kit and the total weight, binos, mount and tripod is just 12 lbs, and as a result they are my most convenient Grab&Go (and consequently get the most use!).
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4421
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Quote:
Quote:
...It's a matter of preference which defies logic.
Yeah, kind of like religion.
Wait a sec; getting lost viewing the sky is tantamount to religious experience.....
My binoculars are holier than your binoculars.... For me
Respectfully,
Harry
P.S. Do you ever wonder about the flame wars on this forum? Personally I espouse there are better things to do. If accused of occasionally participating I will confess to same.
I can hear the thundering hoofs of the TOS police heading this way now.
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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johndavid24
member
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 38
Loc: ohio
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You might want to consider the Zhumells, 20x80 and 20x100 for the guest (kids) , $270 for both at bino's.com . I have the 100's ,pretty sharp both ways
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Harry Jacobson
super member
Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 156
Loc: 42º29'32.03"N 71º34'59.85"W
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
...It's a matter of preference which defies logic.
Yeah, kind of like religion.
I can hear the thundering hoofs of the TOS police heading this way now.
For the record (way, way off topic) that religion does defy logic is a neutral statement without bias. Religion is faith-based not logic based.
For that matter science is founded on faith, too. The faith in science are the a priori assumptions: - All natural phenomena may be analysed and deconstructed with logic
- Experiments performed yesterday will give the same results tomorrow, all controls being equal.
Will anyone argue that an "a priori assumption" is not "faith"? It cannot be established using the scientific method any more or less than the fundamental premise of any religion!
If anyone responds to this off-topic message the TOS police will certainly come down on us!
Harry
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