Mike Harvey
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 589
Loc: Orlando, FL.
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I wasn't really sure how to 'headline' this post...hope that does it.
The new Marshall 10.4" monitor arrived yesterday and first light was last night.
While I'll REALLY get familiar with it at CAV this weekend, some first impressions might be helpful if you are agonizing over what monitor to use to maximize your performance.
This particular monitor has a "Pixel To Pixel" feature.
In other words, you can press a button and it will deliver the 'raw' (native?) resolution of whatever imaging device you are using. The Mallincam Color Hyper produced an image that was approximately 8" diagonally (and not quite a 4.3 aspect ratio).
Switching quickly back and forth between the FULL (10.4") screen and the PTP (8") did not show any noticeable pixel stretching...just a slightly larger image.
And the object itself (M-42) was glorious!
The smoothness of the images in the Marshall monitor allows you to get "up close and personal" to inspect the most minute details. This monitor has 1.44 million pixels and some built-in "cleanup" features that maximize the quality of the conversion of the camera image onto the monitor screen. You just don't see any 'dots',scan lines or other artifacts.
Previously, I've been very pleased with the, much smaller, Watec 3.5" because it is so sharp and user-friendly.
BUT, if you get too close you can start to see the pixel limitations of the monitor. For normal, casual viewing, though...this little jewel is just unbeatable ($399 at SpyTown.com).You can mount it right on your scope next to the focuser!
At the other end of the spectrum, the same caveat applies to LARGE monitors. With these you really need to "get back" to appreciate the images. The closer you get the more image breakdown you see because the small image out of the camera is being spread so thinly on the larger screen (to really simplify a much more complex process). My experiences show that these sizes are really best for large group viewing -
where the "wow" factor from a public that has never seen any DSO's is more important that critical inspection of the details -i.e. ( serious observing.
So far, I've tried 14 different monitors...from small, portable DVD players up to 1080i flat screen HDTV's.
NONE of them have matched the Watec or the Marshall.
Hope this saves you some time and hassle! 
Mike Harvey
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jayscheuerle
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 2984
Loc: S. Philadelphia, PA
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CRTs are always going to have a better image from an analog source, especially if you're scaling up because they don't display pixels the way LCDs do. Their "pixels" are softer and rounded with a natural anti-aliasing.
I'm betting one of those old portable 4" TVs (long skinny things)might put out a tight image, but no S-video ports back then.
In general, a low-end, sub 13" CRT will offer a better picture and better controls than an HD plasma screen when you're coming from a low-resolution analog source like the Mallincams. Like this.
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12" Green Goblin (trusser w/Protstar secondary and OWL refigured primary)• 6" f/5 Eero2 ball-scope • 6" f/5 Frankenscope • Garrett Optical 10x50 binos • Edmund 8" yoke-mounted red-tube reflector • Edmund 6" GEQ red-tube reflector (on loan to Dad)
Gone, but with lessons learned:
Skyquest XT8 • NexSTar 8i • Eeroscope 6" f/5 ball(sacrifice was not in vain) • Vixen ED80sf • Edmund red-tube 4.25" f/10 • Edmund Astroscan
Facts are stubborn things.
Edited by jayscheuerle (12/06/07 03:21 PM)
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rshassell
member
Reged: 11/28/07
Posts: 77
Loc: Colorado, USA
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Analog monochrome CRTs are pixel-free, but analog color CRTs still effectively have 'pixels', as delineated by the shadow mask and phosphor dot/stripe pattern.
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Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon
Reged: 10/13/05
Posts: 519
Loc: Louisiana
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Mike,
It appears that the 10.4" Marshall has features that the 7" versions does not. Is that correct, or does the 7" also have the PTP feature and you just did not discuss it earlier?
Jack
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Orion ED80
Coulter CT-100
Celestron 6" f/8 Refractor
8" Newtonian/Cassegrain on Byers 812 Mount
Classic C-8
Celestron 11" CPC 100 with HyperStar
Tricked-out 17.5" AstroSystems TeleKit
Life Member and ALCOR - PAS New Orleans
 Waning Moon II Observatory
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Joe Lalumia
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 2569
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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I have read about the smaller monitors that mount directly on the telescope------ would that be something like this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/322079-REG/Marshall_V_LCD3_5_PRO_Marshall_VLCD35PRO_3_5_LCD.html
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s.
"The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/06/07 03:47 PM)
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rshassell
member
Reged: 11/28/07
Posts: 77
Loc: Colorado, USA
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According to the user manuals on the Marshall website, it's a feature not needed on the 7" monitor, but usefull on the 10.4" where some 'pixel stretching' occurs to fill the screen. Here's how the Marshall user manual describes the PTP feature.
"As the native LCD displays of the V-R104DP-HD are 800 pixels wide by 600 dots (RGB pixels) high, it is necessary to change the size of the image to fill the whole screen. Pixel to Pixel mode bypasses the enlargement/shrink of this scaling function and displays the native incoming format.
For 525-NTSC/480P based images, pixel to pixel will appear as a 480x640 (4:3 aspect) or 480x720 (16:9 aspect)."
7" Manual
10.4" Manual
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Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon
Reged: 10/13/05
Posts: 519
Loc: Louisiana
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Joe,
The smaller monitor, Mike Harvey, Bob Schilling and I have been using is a Watec-35. It is a 3.5" LCD monitor that has brightness, contrast, color and back light adjustment knobs mounted on the lower/right hand face of the unit. This facilitates adjustment to achieve optimum live images on the screen. It is available from www.spysite.com. Just search their site for "3.5" LCD" and you will be led to it. This unit sells for about $400, but at a stargaze 3 weeks ago, mine outperformed two 10.2" DVD players, a MallinCam 12" B&W CRT monitor and a 14" Sanyo Color monitor.
Jack
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Orion ED80
Coulter CT-100
Celestron 6" f/8 Refractor
8" Newtonian/Cassegrain on Byers 812 Mount
Classic C-8
Celestron 11" CPC 100 with HyperStar
Tricked-out 17.5" AstroSystems TeleKit
Life Member and ALCOR - PAS New Orleans
Waning Moon II Observatory
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Joe Lalumia
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 2569
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Jack-- thanks
Joe
Moderators-------- thanks for fixing my LONG LINK! Never have figured out how to do it correctly! (Just gettin' old!) Ha.
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s.
"The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax." - Albert Einstein
Edited by Joe Lalumia (12/06/07 07:13 PM)
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Mike Harvey
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 589
Loc: Orlando, FL.
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Quote:
Mike,
It appears that the 10.4" Marshall has features that the 7" versions does not. Is that correct, or does the 7" also have the PTP feature and you just did not discuss it earlier?
Jack
Hi Jack...
No the 7" did not have this feature.
I think they are "accepting orders" for an 8" version that WILL have that, But since that's close to the PTP output anyway, I don't know that it would be of any use.
This weekend I'm going to try and familiarize myself with all the various settings and features of the new monitor.
I think the Marshall company takes it for granted that anyone who orders one of their "professional' monitors already knows what it can do and how to do it. Unfortunately I'm 'just guessing' on some of the settings!
Mike
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Mike Harvey
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 589
Loc: Orlando, FL.
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Quote:
I have read about the smaller monitors that mount directly on the telescope------ would that be something like this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/322079-REG/Marshall_V_LCD3_5_PRO_Marshall_VLCD35PRO_3_5_LCD.html
One feature you REALLY SHOULD HAVE (whatEVER monitor you get) is MANUAL brightness and contrast controls right where you can reach them.
This particular Marshall 3.5" doesn't have that...you have to go into a menu.
They DO make a 4" model that has the manual controls.
Mike
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CarolG
sage
Reged: 10/16/06
Posts: 495
Loc: Oklahoma
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Mike, sounds like the 10.4" Marshall is a real winner-just wish I could afford one  I did just receive my Watec-35 a couple of days ago, but haven't gotten to try it out yet. For those looking for a Watec, I got mine HERE for $353 and the little stand (theMS50) for $25. It all fits perfectly next to my focuser. Maybe someday I can upgrade to a Marshall.
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Carol
NS11 XLT on a Scopebuggy
TV85 w/FeatherTouch/DM4/SC
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plav1959
super member
Reged: 05/10/07
Posts: 152
Loc: Central Florida
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Hi Carol,
I'm in the same boat as you. Just received my MCHP today - now it's time to get a field monitor. I wonder if anyone has checked out this one:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/229066-REG/Marshall_V_LCD12_TV_CM_V_LCD12_12_1_Inch_LCD_Monitor_TV.html
It's SVGA, has S video in, not sure if buttons on face panel are picture controls, or whether brightness and contrast are menu controlled.
Mike - did you get your monitor from B&H? After checking Marshall's website I see they have a distributor in Winter Park.
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Paul
14.5" StarStructure f/4.3 with AN/SC
Meade 10" LX200R
William Optics Megrez 90
Orion SkyView Pro 8EQ
ETX125
Celestron ASGT mount
Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
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Kevin2
member
Reged: 11/20/07
Posts: 10
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$400 is out of my price range right now. What is the < $200 DVD player you found?
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16399
Loc: Brooker, FL
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Mike, which Marshall monitor did you settle on?
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Mike Harvey
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 589
Loc: Orlando, FL.
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Quote:
It's SVGA, has S video in, not sure if buttons on face panel are picture controls, or whether brightness and contrast are menu controlled.
Mike - did you get your monitor from B&H? After checking Marshall's website I see they have a distributor in Winter Park.
DUH! Somehow I missed the local outlet.
Yes, got mine from B&H. I've done quite a bit of business with them in the past and they're good people. No hassle returns! 
That 12" you referenced does NOT have manual controls. They're all in an internal menu that you have to access.
And unless you NEED the TV.........?
Mike
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Mike Harvey
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 589
Loc: Orlando, FL.
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Quote:
Mike, which Marshall monitor did you settle on?
It's a 10.4" Marshall HD monitor w/S-Video inputs (along with a bunch of others!).
Mike
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greg
sage
Reged: 01/25/05
Posts: 389
Loc: Central Ca.
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One feature you REALLY SHOULD HAVE (whatEVER monitor you get) is MANUAL brightness and contrast controls right where you can reach them.
This particular Marshall 3.5" doesn't have that...you have to go into a menu.
They DO make a 4" model that has the manual controls.
Mike
I am using the Marshall 4" Monitor, and it has manual brightness, contrast, tint, and color controls right where you can reach them. It's a great monitor. I have been using a small monitor at my focuser for about a year now. I started out with a 2.5" with color and brightness, it was good, then a 3.5 with color, brightness, and tint, it was better, But the 4" Marshall blows them both away....Better resolution and a little bigger screen.
I may have access to a few of these 4" Marshall monitors if anyone wants to try one, you can send me a private message. The Marshall website lists them at $400.00 plus shipping, I will test these monitors to make sure they are in good shape, and ship them in the Conus for $250.00
Greg
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30" F/4.5 Truss
12" LX200 GPS
Orion ST120mm F/5
Celestron 102mm F/5 Finderscope
2" 26mm 70* Illuminated Reticle
26mm T5 Nagler
20mm T5 Nagler
13mm ETHOS
Pentax XW 10mm
MallinCam Color Hyper Plus
9" Speco HighRes. Color CRT Monitor
Light polluted Backyard
10' Home Dome
MallinCam Deep Space Observatory
Great Darksite 1.5 Hrs. Away
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1811
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Quote:
The Marshall website lists them at $400.00 plus shipping, I will test these monitors to make sure they are in good shape, and ship them in the Conus for $250.00
I assume this is the same Monitor that BHVideoPhoto.com has on their website for $289?
One thing I really like about this monitor is that 500mw power consumption. I would be using this out in the field and a power-hungry CRT is not a feasible option, but at 500mw, it would run for quite some time on the built-in rechargeable battery that comes with that package.
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Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon
Reged: 10/13/05
Posts: 519
Loc: Louisiana
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Almost any portable DVD player will work. It justs needs a video input. The problem is that not all DVD players provide easy ways to adjust brightness and most dont have a contrast adjustment at all. Some make adjustments through the use of on screen menues and some use roller knobs.
I used an Audiovox D2010 (now discontinued) for 3 years with great success. I recently got a Phillips PET1002 and it did not perform as well at a recent stargaze.
Jack Huerkamp
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Orion ED80
Coulter CT-100
Celestron 6" f/8 Refractor
8" Newtonian/Cassegrain on Byers 812 Mount
Classic C-8
Celestron 11" CPC 100 with HyperStar
Tricked-out 17.5" AstroSystems TeleKit
Life Member and ALCOR - PAS New Orleans
Waning Moon II Observatory
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Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon
Reged: 10/13/05
Posts: 519
Loc: Louisiana
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Carol,
You will be very pleased with the Watec-35. At a recent stargaze, it provided the best views to date. Of course it is small, but then it feels more like "observing" when you have to climb up to the monitor mounted next to the focuser. I have the 10.4" in my 2008 wish list. The Watec-35 at the focuser and the Marshall 10.4 on the table mounted on the rear of the 17.5" for group viewing.
Jack
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Orion ED80
Coulter CT-100
Celestron 6" f/8 Refractor
8" Newtonian/Cassegrain on Byers 812 Mount
Classic C-8
Celestron 11" CPC 100 with HyperStar
Tricked-out 17.5" AstroSystems TeleKit
Life Member and ALCOR - PAS New Orleans
Waning Moon II Observatory
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