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rolandlinda3
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/24/06
Posts: 1617
Loc: Crozet VA 22932
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There have been some comments about the potential "demise" of eye pieces. As much as I love astro-video, I encourage a healthy respect for eye pieces and those who use them. There is a balance--even for astrovideo users--between the use of EPs and assisted optics. Because people are passionate about astrovideo as well as pure EP use, it is profitable to posters to respect both approaches to visual observing. Further, there are some specific technical advantages to using a balance of certain EPs with astrovideo cameras. Read on about my experience if interested:
1. Matching EP/astro-video camera focal length. I regularly use a good quality Plossl EP that approximates the astrovideo camera focal length. The MallinCAM Hyper Color is approximately equivalent to an 8-mm Plossl 50 degree apparent field of view. With the FR3 focal reducer and a 10-mm extension on the reducer, the focal length is about 12.5-mm. For us, this means that having an 8mm and 12-13 mm EP is helpful. Having an EP with twice the focal length is also handy for similar reasons. This gives me an immediate visual reference for what I will examine on the monitor with the astro video camera. It is also a handy method for comparing object features with both astro-video and straight EP views.
2. Having a good quality wide field EP to keep from getting lost. I get lost frequently. I have a favorite quality wide angle EP (a 22-mm Panoptic) that weighs about the same as the camera and gives me a much larger field of view than my astro video camera. I cannot tell you how many times I have plopped the EP back in the focuser when I have lost my bearings using the astro video camera. I highly recommend one good wider field optic for this purpose, but I also chose one that is not too heavy or weighs about the same as a camera. Then switching the EP and video camera back and forth is easier (especially for Dob users where balance can be an issue). The wider field EP helps me know where to move the scope quickly to find my target.
3. Having a good quality 2 inch Barlow. I have had my share of cheap Barlows. But when I have a good seeing night and plop in a 2 inch Televue 2X Barlow in front of the camera, the views for small objects can be better enjoyed and studied. Some Barlows tend to give me some ghosting on the monitor scene, but the 2 inch has never done that and provides excellent optical advantage when the camera is mounted on the Barlow. While a good 1.25 inch Barlow is nice, my 2 inch fits like a glove in a 2 inch barrel (it should) and provides a hearty base for the camera with no slop. Outside of the 22-mm Panoptic, it is the most valuable optical glass I own. I understand Powermates can give similar performance but there is a lot more glass and weight compared to the straight Barlow. I won't sell my 2 inch Televue Barlow.
4. Having a good quality reticle EP. On some scope arrangements and when I am trying to center objects accurately before turning the astro video camera loose, having a reticle EP can be handy. I don't use it all the time, but it has sure been helpful when I do. I have two: one with a lighted reticle and one unlighted. If pointing accurately before employing a astro-video camera is an issue, then one might consider getting one of these. If I had a choice over again, I would have gotten a longer focal length reticle EP rather than my 8-mm version. The reticle EP is also helpful when piggy-backing a finder scope or small refractor on your primary OTA. It helps to accurately align both views, which makes finding things faster. There is one disadvantage to some reticle EPS: they are sometimes not real good EPs in their own right. I recommend trying one before buying them if you are trying to add it to your astro-video oriented use. Be sure it is going to be as helpful as you think it will be.
5. Always have a favorite "set" of EPs to pan the sky. About 1/2 of our nights observing with the MallinCAM Hyper Color or Pro Dob cameras are concluded with 15-20 minutes of EP use. Until technology changes or I invest in another scope with Hyperstar (a very expensive option), the narrow field of view of the astro-video tools is a known limitation. I still get blown away on a clear night by visually soaking up a wide angle view of some favorite sections of the sky. If I had to do it all over again--choosing a scope and related tools to observe--this is what I would do:
a. Find a good tracking scope. b. Get 4 EPs: two Plossls to match or double my astrovideo camera focal length and two wide field good optics. c. Get a good 2 inch Barlow. d. Get one lighted reticle EP. e. Buy the best astro-video camera I could get my hands on and couple it with a good monitor.
Thanks for reading.
Roland Beard Crozet VA
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midway199
super member
Reged: 04/21/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Illinois
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Excellent (and thorough) advice Roland. One thing I'd like to add is a single very good reason to have some eyepieces. When you drive all the way out into the middle of nowhere and you find out that for some reason, you didn't pack the power cord! Oh, it's always something! Some little who-gee-whats-it that gets left behind! Never hurts to have options, and for many reasons, a video observing session can turn into a good ol' visual session real quick!
-------------------- Matthew Sherman
StellaCam 3
Celestron NexStar 11 @ f/3.3
Starmaster 12.5"
Starmaster 18"
Tom Osypowski Equatorial Platform
Butterfield East Video Observatory
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rolandlinda3
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/24/06
Posts: 1617
Loc: Crozet VA 22932
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I've done the same thing...forgotten cords, pieces of this or that. With astro video, having a system (which took me a year to settle on) really helps. So critical EPs (like those I have suggested), the MallinCAM box of stuff, the monitor/cords, power tank, etc. are now in a relatively small group of cases. I can just about do everything in the dark automatically. I really pays to establish this sort of routines...because the objective is to observe, not play with tools and fight with pieces of things. Roland
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midway199
super member
Reged: 04/21/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Illinois
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Roland,
Being new to astro-video, I don't have the routines down. Equipment everywhere. For visual, I got it down to a science. A place for everything, and everything in it's place. For astro-video, I'm still figuring out what goes where for transportation.
A month or so ago, a clear night popped up and I decided I had to get out to the dark site to do some more testing and familiarizing myself with the laptop being hooked up to the mount, power requirements in the field, etc.
I forgot to bring the darned monitor! I got it all set up, mount aligned, laptop hooked up, and no monitor to plug the video cable into. I could just see it sitting on the shelf in the garage laughing at me! Arrgh! Fortunately, I also brought out a 7" LCD I had just received for testing as well, so it was no bust by any means. In fact, I bagged the Horsehead for the first time ever with that little 7" LCD.
-------------------- Matthew Sherman
StellaCam 3
Celestron NexStar 11 @ f/3.3
Starmaster 12.5"
Starmaster 18"
Tom Osypowski Equatorial Platform
Butterfield East Video Observatory
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Roland - excellent and thorough summary, but for me it goes a bit beyond what you say - or maybe I just didn't read carefully enough.
I love video observing - it's absolutely the mainstay of what I do these days using the MallinCam Color Hyper - but I also love the idea of distant photons pinging my brain more-or-less directly. That's abit mystical, I know, but it goes beyond that. While the video is terrific for extended objects such as nebulae and galaxies, I still cherish the view of a good star cluster - particularly open clusters - visually.
In my teaching observing I find video an excellent tool - but I have folks look at an object both ways. I find that once they look at it on the video screen, they actually see more visually, in part because they understand what they should be seeing. At public events I try to team with a visual observer so people can move from my video set-up to the visual scope.
I think this is a lot like every new communications medium - people assume that movies will wipe out plays and TV would wipe out radio - but plays and radio have their niche and in certain ways do better than the more dominant TV and movies.
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rolandlinda3
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/24/06
Posts: 1617
Loc: Crozet VA 22932
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I also value direct visual observation so I never mean to say that it has no value or will mean the demise of straight observing. If you note my gallery (rolandlinda3) in Members Galleries, you will see that I mean what I say--many of our sketches are based on visual work. However--and a big HOWEVER--my wife and I want to see the details of galaxy arms, nebula, planetaries and the like without having to invest in a huge aperture scope...and we want to do it without physical acrobatics...and we want to see it live with color. No matter how good eyepieces are and how good a 22-24 inch aperture scope could be, I CANNOT detect -- no normal person can detect -- the details you observe in my sketches with an a set of eyes. I can see them easily, however, when using a video astro camera like the MallinCAM Hyper Color. It simply cannot be done with straight visual observing.
Roland
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