Jack Knetzger
member
Reged: 12/04/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Plano, TX
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So I raced (there's the problem) to look at the moon last night for the first time in a 1-week old C6-RGT and didn't securely attach the dovetail...when I slewed from the Moon to Mars, the OTA fell off the mount with a sickening thud and gunshot like crack on the cement patio. The outer 1/2 inch of the objective got a blister crack, about 3 inches in length on the edge of the lens.
Opened a ticket with Celestron. Anyone have experience with this? Can it be replaced, price?
Also, is there another way to attach the OTA to the mount other than with the dovetail and 2 tension screws? Can the smaller mounting block be used? Didn't see how to attach it...
p.s. I looked at the Moon and Mars after the crash, and the view was largely unnaffected, particularly with the dew shield downstop mask on, which blocked out all of the crack. The dark side of the crescent moon looked really cool in a refractor.
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TMB130SS 5.1" f/7 apo
C6-R 6" f/8
ASGT Goto+GPS
Coulter Odyssey I 13.1" f/4.5
Coronado PST
Seibert BN 21mm Binoviewers, TV Nagler EPs
9 guitars, 4 amps, 2 beagles
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 32461
Loc: Gulfport, MS
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You may be able to pick up a used C6R OTA for $300.00 to $400.00 in the CN's S&S or on Astromart.
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  Scott
S.L.A.P. Observer
TMB 130SS/CG-5(AS-GT)(IT'S HERE - THANKS ASTRONOMICS!)
SV80ED Deluxe/SV M1 Deluxe
Coronado SM40/BF10
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke.
"The measure of a man's life is not what he accomplishes for himself, but what he accomplishes for others." Some bald guy.
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Old Dinosaur
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/08/07
Posts: 803
Loc: Out in the sagebrush
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Ow! That is a bummer! Hope you'll post on how replacing the objective proceeds.
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WRS Observatory
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Steve Fisher
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Utah
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So sorry, best of luck with a repair.
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Steve
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"Never try to teach a pig to sing, It wastes your time and it annoys the pig". (Robert Heinlein)
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o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 1283
Loc: The Big Tomato, California
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Very sorry to hear this, Jack.
My own observing site is a concrete patio also. Your experience simply confirms my fear of dropping the OTA with disastrous results.
I sincerely hope Celestron can help with this.
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Kit
"There's only two things that excite a man, expensive toys and real expensive toys." - Red Green
* A bunch of old ATM stuff that cost me next to nothing
* A bunch of new commercial stuff that cost me an arm and a leg
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OzMan
member
Reged: 02/26/06
Posts: 38
Loc: Washington State
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If you have a garage or other space to store the scope so there are no stairs involved and tube from mount removal is not an issue then I'd suggest something similar to a Scope Buggy (but not mfg. by Scope Buggy as my warranty issues with them went VERY unresolved) there are several out there that eliminate the need to take the scope off the mount. Then you can secure it permanently if you wish. I have had close calls with heavy OTA's just getting them onto the mount by myself (should have had two people) so can understand your frustration over this accident! I would think that Celestron can supply you with a new achromatic lens set but don't know the condition of the rest of the OTA after impact so as others have indicated might be better to shop for a new or used OTA. Bob
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OzMan
member
Reged: 02/26/06
Posts: 38
Loc: Washington State
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On another note, I've read reviews on the C6 and chromatic abberation. You likely got some good views of the moon through the downstop as this would decrease those abberations. I use a little Orion ST80 for wide views of star clusters and diffuse nebulae but shun away from the moon and bright stars due to the violet hues - saving those objects for a MAK, Reflector or SCT.
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Old Dinosaur
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/08/07
Posts: 803
Loc: Out in the sagebrush
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Since he just got this scope and it's brand new, I doubt he wants to buy another OTA. If the focuser works OK, the finder and its bracket appear undamaged, and nothing is rattling around in the tube it's probably fine. Even if it comes to shipping the OTA back to Celestron for installation of a new objective, he'd probably be better off. Unless that cost gets near what an entire OTA would run.
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WRS Observatory
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GeorgeDuke
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 1009
Loc: PARADISE! (So.Florida)
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Don't be afraid of the dovetail system Jack. A common fear of newbies is the OTA falling off. This will not happen unless care was not taken when mounting the OTA. I turn the saddle 90 deg so it is level and then rest the dovetail in on the side without the thumbscrews and then lower the other side in and tighten the two thumb screws securely before rotating the mount to the polar position. I put the thumbscrew side on the right so that the smaller angled thumbscrew is pointing in an upward angle to jamb against the dovetail if the larger thumbscrew is not tight. I have had the C6R and also the AR-6 refractors and never had a problem because I am always careful to have the dovetail seated properly and the thumbscrews tightened properly. There are millions of OTA mount/dismounts from this type of mount and only a handful of operator errors.
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George
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LX200GPS 203mm f10
StellarVue SV102ED2 Feathertouch Ser#0018
Celestron 130mm f15.4 Mak
Celestron 102mm f5 - GSO dual speed Crayford
LXD75 GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
ASGT GOTO with Orion 16" pier extension
Desert Sky DSV1 dual head ALT-AZ mount
Baader Hyperion 8mm ,13mm, 21mm and 8-24mm Zoom
2" GSO 32mm Kellner and ED barlow, 30mm 80deg UWA
Orion 2" Prism Diag. 2" WO Dielectric
Chinese scopes, Chinese Wife, Love them all!
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Carl M
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/21/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Vermont, USA
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I'm sorry to hear the news. I view in my driveway and, after dropping an eyepiece causing it to dent, I realized I should have something to cushion a fall. I found a 8 x 10 old oriental rug for $5 at a garage sale and it comes out of the garage and down on the driveway and I set up on that. I use a GM-8 most of the time and have a C-8 XLT I pull out on occasion. The OTA rail has a thumbscrew knob on the bottom at the front end of the OTA. I didn't have it as tight as I should and the OTA slipped, but it stopped when it hit the thumbscrew. It's save me at least twice. I'm sure you could do fashion the same thing on a CG-5 rail.
Hope this helps!
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Carl
JStar 12" Truss Dob w/Swayze Mirror
StellarVue SV50 "Little Rascal"
SV102ED
SV80(NHNG )
AT66 (Chrome)
GM-8
WO SWANs and TV Plossls
Lake Runnemede Observatory
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Jack Knetzger
member
Reged: 12/04/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Plano, TX
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Of course you're right, it was carelessness and haste. Also cold and dark. Also, I didn't extend the tripod legs like I normally would, to keep it low for the setting crescent moon, so I was mounting below my eye level as well. All bad.
No response from Celestron ticket yet, haven't been able to get through by phone either.
Here's what the objective looks like (see attachment). Other than one tiny scuff on focusser collar, not a scratch on it (there were a bunch of leaves on the cement.) And like I said, surprisingly it still gives fine 250x views of Mars and the Moon even with the bubble. Only affects a small portion of the image at the edge if dew shield downstop removed. So it's livable (unless it spreads) until I can get a replacement.
Oh yeah - did I say I was cursing myself for half an hour, having a Fargo-like conniption fit while my wife rolled her eyes in disgust? You can imagine.
Thanks for all the feedback. Have one lead on replacement OTA for around $300 so far from a CN user. Haven't noticed any CA yet and when I put in the Baader filter on the moon it looked silly yellow, so I'm OK without that. Even at full 6", CA doesn't bug me (yet). Haven't seen Jupiter or Saturn high mag yet though.
Will I be more careful setting up in the future? 1st hour will be checking and rechecking the dovetail and screws, after 30 minutes setting the mattresses up on the ground. Last 15 minutes for observing and break-down. 8(
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TMB130SS 5.1" f/7 apo
C6-R 6" f/8
ASGT Goto+GPS
Coulter Odyssey I 13.1" f/4.5
Coronado PST
Seibert BN 21mm Binoviewers, TV Nagler EPs
9 guitars, 4 amps, 2 beagles
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Jack Knetzger
member
Reged: 12/04/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Plano, TX
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and here's a close-up
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TMB130SS 5.1" f/7 apo
C6-R 6" f/8
ASGT Goto+GPS
Coulter Odyssey I 13.1" f/4.5
Coronado PST
Seibert BN 21mm Binoviewers, TV Nagler EPs
9 guitars, 4 amps, 2 beagles
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Old Dinosaur
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/08/07
Posts: 803
Loc: Out in the sagebrush
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Oh lord. I wish you hadn't put up those pictures, sends shivers down my spine. And others as well I'm sure.
Doesn't matter if you've been around this stuff for 50 years or just getting started; We've all had wrecks, some more serious than others.
Ideally, Celestron will just sell you a new objective you can install yourself, it would certainly save on a lot of shipping back and forth and costs too.
I'd keep trying to get someone on the phone. They have some real helpful people, but sometimes it takes awhile to get them.
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WRS Observatory
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Jack Knetzger
member
Reged: 12/04/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Plano, TX
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Is it easy to install a new objective yourself?
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TMB130SS 5.1" f/7 apo
C6-R 6" f/8
ASGT Goto+GPS
Coulter Odyssey I 13.1" f/4.5
Coronado PST
Seibert BN 21mm Binoviewers, TV Nagler EPs
9 guitars, 4 amps, 2 beagles
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Old Dinosaur
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/08/07
Posts: 803
Loc: Out in the sagebrush
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They would most likely supply it to you premounted in it's cell. A simple matter of 3 screws to swap them out.
If that's what you end up doing, you can get all the able help here you would need to collimate the objective after you put in the replacement.
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WRS Observatory
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SAL
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/13/03
Posts: 2093
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Gosh Jack, I am sorry about the accident with your scope. It sounds like it is still quite usable until a replacement arrives. I hope you are able to get it corrected quickly.
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Stellarvue 102BV (Feather Touch focuser)
Burgess 1278 (MoonLite CF2B focuser)
Hardin 10-inch Dob (GSO Crayford Focuser)
7x50 Binoculars
The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. (Psalms 19:1 NASB)
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Mike Clemens
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/05
Posts: 2789
Loc: Alaska @ 61N -149W
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I've seen a 6" AP with a similiar huge chip. (In photos.) Good luck on the replacement path.
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ngc2289
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/13/05
Posts: 1717
Loc: SouthTexas
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Don't beat your self up!! Thats what we're here to do!!!  But in all seriousness we all have made these kinds of mistakes!!!! and will again!!!  
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Mike Traub(Mr. Congeniality): I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!:Shipfitters mottos; Cut to suit, pound to fit, paint to hide!: If it dosen't fit get a bigger hammer!......Retired and BROKE!!!!!Refractors are like a fine wine!They just get better with age!!!!!! :SV102ED(Light Hawk):SV Nighthawk Classic(Tenchi[Heaven&Earth]):Vixen GP: SV M-1 & AT Voyager alt-az mounts.
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mblack
It won't hurt a bit
Reged: 10/31/05
Posts: 2020
Loc: Naples, Florida
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Quote:
and here's a close-up
...hmmm... just a bit of frost... nothing to worry about... all is well.... ALL IS WELL... 
I always check, and double check to ensure the dovetail is in the saddle.
After seeing your post, I might add several more checks. I think 7 or so would be fine ;>
Good luck with Celestron. I had a hard time getting through to them once, but after I did, the service was outstanding. Which means nothing in itself, just keep calling and be patient, really really patient.
'Tis that time 'O the Year :>
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-Dave
C11~ CGE~ SV102ed~ EZTouch~ Various eyepieces
fav. quote from The Office
Ryan: Did this happen on company property?
Michael Scott: : It was on company property, with company property. So, double jeopardy, we're fine.
Ryan: : I don't think-- I don't think you understand how jeopardy works.
Michael Scott: : Oh, I'm sorry. What is, 'we're fine'?
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Mike Clemens
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/05
Posts: 2789
Loc: Alaska @ 61N -149W
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> But in all seriousness we all have made these
> kinds of mistakes!!!!
I dumped a Losmandy G11 off the back of a truck once when I hit a bump. Can you imagine? I still do. I like to post it now and then as a public self-flogging which helps keep me careful. ( So, dont call CasadyAstro looking for the fancy red curved saddle lock knobs seen below. ) I was lucky and these lock knobs below acted as a "crumple zone" to the largest degree.
Roland Christen also posted a pretty good horror story on AP-UG about a roll-off roof that was stubborn to open, but with a little extra force he was able to overcome the resistance of the AP900 and IIRC Mak-Cass that was inside resisting his efforts... crash!
A good friend of mine really wanted to remove his Pentax 75 lens for a thorough cleaning. It now looks like a smaller version of the lens seen above.
I heard the gentleman who bought a 14" f/12 TMB APO lens (85 pounds if I recall correctly).... dropped it.
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Spaz
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 758
Loc: New Zealand
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Pardon my vulgarity, but I have to say that reading this thread is like seeing somebody get kicked in the nuts.  
Good luck with Celestron, I'm sure you won't need it. And it looks as if you've had all the bad luck for this year already.
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bbriggs
sage
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 209
Loc: Graham, Wa.
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Well I hastily grabbed my eyepiece case off a table with the lid still open and sent my 31 nagler bouncing across a stone patio. I still think about that sickening clackity clack noise it made. Outside of a few dents on the outside it was no worse for the experience. My brother also dumped his 18" mirror out of the cell and put a nice chip in the edge. One thing you should consider is getting a personal articles floater on your homeowners insurance for your astro gear. Usually is costs about .85/$100 of value and will cover anything that happens.
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18 f4.5 home made newt
14.5 f4.5 homemade newt w/Zambuto
16x70 Fujinon Binoculars 20x110 Garrett Binoculars
Denk II power x switch 21's and 14's
31, 17, 9 Naglers
Televue Ranger
Astrogizmos Portable Observatory
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Mike Clemens
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/05
Posts: 2789
Loc: Alaska @ 61N -149W
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> costs about .85/$100 of value
Per what time period?
Thanks, Mike
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ngc2289
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/13/05
Posts: 1717
Loc: SouthTexas
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Quote:
Good luck with Celestron, I'm sure you won't need it. And it looks as if you've had all the bad luck for this year already.
Yeah but there are only 15 more days then it is a whole new year!!! 
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Mike Traub(Mr. Congeniality): I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!:Shipfitters mottos; Cut to suit, pound to fit, paint to hide!: If it dosen't fit get a bigger hammer!......Retired and BROKE!!!!!Refractors are like a fine wine!They just get better with age!!!!!! :SV102ED(Light Hawk):SV Nighthawk Classic(Tenchi[Heaven&Earth]):Vixen GP: SV M-1 & AT Voyager alt-az mounts.
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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Posts: 12070
Loc: San Diego, California
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Quote:
Of course you're right, it was carelessness and haste. Also cold and dark. Also, I didn't extend the tripod legs like I normally would, to keep it low for the setting crescent moon, so I was mounting below my eye level as well. All bad.
Sorry to hear about your difficulties, over the years I have had a similar problem or two but never with a refractor.
Even when done carefully, it is not so easy to install a heavy OTA on the mount using the dovetail. it is quite possible to think it is correctly installed when in reality it is cocked and can slip out with disasterous results... It is difficult to see the dovetail because it is underneath the tube itself and you are holding the tube to be sure it doesn't drop. Doing it at night makes it more difficult to really be sure that everything is solid before letting loose of the OTA.
A good way to avoid this problem is to avoid using the dovetail. Rather, install the dovetail and rings once inside where the light is good and you can see exactly what you are doing. Tighten everything so the dovetail and rings are secure. Then when you setup, you open the rings, place the scope in the rings, flip them over and tighten them up. Everything is right in front of you and it more difficult to make a mistake. And, since there are two rings, even if you get one wrong, the other one is there as a back up.
THat said... I normally use the Dovetail but over concrete I would consider avoiding it's use.
I hope you are able to resolve the issues with your objective. Before getting too concerned, you might try to get another opinion, maybe someone here in this forum who lived nearby.
Jon
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SAL
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/13/03
Posts: 2093
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Reading all these posts is beginning to make me paranoid. I almost fell when I tripped on the tripod with my 5-inch Burgess achromat one night while dismounting it to put in back in the case. I now take a minute to fully survey the area prior to hoisting the OTA free from the mount to insure I can slowly take the required steps without tripping over the tripod, equipment cases, etc.
Going slow seems to be the best prevention, especially when taking my Dob up and down our basement stairs with each use. 
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Stellarvue 102BV (Feather Touch focuser)
Burgess 1278 (MoonLite CF2B focuser)
Hardin 10-inch Dob (GSO Crayford Focuser)
7x50 Binoculars
The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. (Psalms 19:1 NASB)
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Danno2006
sage
Reged: 01/25/06
Posts: 453
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Usefull thread on "not what to do"
Good tips on the dovetail and surveying your work area. I have a head mounted LED light coming to allow easy inspection to make sure that dovetail is set exactly where it should be set.
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deSitter
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 689
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Of course you can remove the scope from its cradle, mount the cradle and make sure that is secure FIRST, then put the scope into the cradle and clamp down the rings. It's not exactly safe hoisting a large, heavy refractor up high on a mount and then trying to glance around to make sure the dovetail has properly seated itself. I skip my own advice for my 5" which is relatively light (15 lbs) but would never try it with anything bigger - and I'm pretty stout. Placing the bare tube into the open rings is easy and safe.
-drl
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Mike Clemens
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/05
Posts: 2789
Loc: Alaska @ 61N -149W
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I find it safest to use a tip-in saddle, and put the scope, already in rings, into the saddle. This lets me cradle the entire scope with both arms and continue to do so even while fastening it down, until it is in the saddle and secured. I can even run my finger around the saddle-to-dovetail "interface" while still cradling it with both arms, verifying the gap all around is proper thickness. I have found that putting scopes into and out of rings is a prime source of paint damage.
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scope dog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/26/04
Posts: 1166
Loc: USA, NJ
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Just be glad it's not a $10,000 scope. Prepare for the worst, enjoy the best. When I had my Vixen na120s, I didn't like how smooth the scope was past the lens to the dew shield, this scope cold slide right out. My Santel I installed a set screw to prevent slip at dovetail.
Aluminum contracts, and the dia of the tube seems to occur faster then the rings that hold it. That what I found.
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Jim Fusco
Astreya 152mm F/7 SAPO
Santel MK91
Astreya-SAPO
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deSitter
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 689
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