Levine
super member
Reged: 03/24/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Indiana, Wabash County
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Quote:
Talked to Bill Collins today....sale of I3 is on hold as he cannot secure product from ITT because of DOD contracts which have priority. He has no idea when, if ever, availability of tubes will resume.
Didn't seem to be very optimistic....
The other thing that puts me off is the 35 degree apparent fov....might be hard to get used to after using my Ethos.
Be like looking through a soda straw.
You know, I have both the Ethos and the I3, and I would not part with either one.
The experiences are VERY different with each one, as you well know.
What sells me on the Collins unit is that it provides bright detail on what would otherwise be a faint, wispy DSO. It is so efficient at what it does that an object which would otherwise be hovering on the border of resolvability is rendered visible - and with no averted vision!
These two gems, I believe, are truly complimentary, serving two different roles.
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Bill and I have the opportunity to speak from time to time, as we had the other day.
Guys, we need to back Bill up on this. The I3 has been a labour of love, resulting in a unique tool that the Astronomy community has been privileged to have access to. There is really nothing else quite like it out there.
We - all of us - should do what we can to keep Collins Electro Optics in the Game. He has been a true friend to the Astronomy community, and friends don't let friends go out of business, if there is something that can be done to prevent it from happening.
I suggest we start a new thread devoted to this important topic, to brainstorm on this.
We need some good ideas out on the table, and we are just the folks who can do it.
Hang on, Bill. We have your back.
   
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JMI NGT-18 Reflector, "Magellan"
C11 CFT XLT Fastar, "Dave"
CotoSKY 8.25" f/6 Achromat, "Blackjack"
Meade AR6 Achro, "Kalliopi"
WO FLT 110 Apo, "Apollo"
Coronado PST "Icarus"
Canon IS 15 X 50 Binoculars
Losmandy G11/Gemini4
Discmounts DM-6, Sky Commander, StarBeam
Denk II Universal Power X Switch Binoviewer
Collins I3/Astronomik H-a/Starsweeper
...and some nice glass.
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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I do not know Bill Collins but I do respect the work he has done. His I3 is beautiful, no doubt about it. It is a bit expensive, but the technology is expensive. The tubes alone cost quite a bit and prices have gone way up. The higher spec tubes that were available last year are now only available to DoD and LEAs (Law Enforcement Agencies) but there are tubes out there. DoD and LEAs swap units for newer units and put the used ones out on the market. But the new tubes are also still available, although you might wait two months for delivery. There are only two producers of the tubes and ITT is responsible for 80% of the production. Has Bill spoke with Litton, the other producer?
I'm sure Bill has considered alternatives to the high quality tubes and probably wants to only put out the best since it has his name on it. I have found some great used tubes which can be easily assembled and while it is a fun project for me, and will keep my costs down, and allow me to choose from a number of different tubes with different specs and quality, I doubt Bill Collins will want to use anything but a brand new, 100% clean tube, with 0 hours on it. I was offered brand new tubes ranging from $1,300 to $2,200. It is possible to purchase these tubes with better specs than are used in the I3, but again, prices are up and availability is down. That presents a problem for production and ability to keep prices stable.
I would like to see him secure the tubes and continue to put out his product. I think it is a very unique EP which can be offered with many different tube specs.
I can tell you this, while I can build the tube, I can't duplicate that professionally crafted housing. There are other housings which will do fine, but not as sexy as the I3 with the lithium battery harness. I wish I could purchase his housing to use with my used tube!
Maybe Bill should consider producing units with used tubes and disclose the usage and provide the test reports which he does. His expertise in hand selecting the best of the used tubes can be valuable. I know it isn't the same as putting out the units he has but it could keep things together until availability improves.
The ability to view live with out the need for tracking, wires, and other necessary components, with it all built into one small enclosed unit is sweet indeed.
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
Edited by Douglas (01/11/08 10:54 AM)
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2759
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Just a thought...if TV builds 25mm optics for the I3, would it be possible for them to build an I3 around Nagler optics...say the 26mm? Or even the 27mm Panoptic would be a vast improvement in fov.
I assume the 35 degree apparent fov is a function of the tubes limitation.
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10x50 Fujinon FMT-SX binos
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 homemade achromat....EE Barnard MW Sweeper
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
35mm Pan, 26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Hey Doug and all,
Rather than building a housing and power supply from various pieces would it not be feasible to cannibalize a Gen I unit? The Gen III is definitely smaller than the Gen I. Just wondering if it would be possible to put a Gen III tube into my Gen I monocular? I would be more than willing to make that small sacrifice. It has the same battery compartment as the Collins and runs off the same battery.
And Mr Bill I don't think using a wide angle ep would work very well as the phospher screen has a strongly curved surface. I'm sure the TeleVue designed eyepiece takes this into account.
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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Hey Terry:
You could use a Sight Owl MA9 or ENVIS housings with optics to install ANVIS tubes in but I am not familiar with the Gen I monocular housings so I am not sure. I can ask someone I know who builds and repairs monocular housings for nightvision tubes for the military, I will let you know what they tell me.
Here are the links to some of the pieces I am using to build the EP:
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l2085.html
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m2104.html
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m1500.html
The phospher screen is strongly curved and there is distortion, can't be helped but 40-45 degree FOV is possible.
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Hi Doug,
Noticed you are using red filter. How would that do on nebulas compared to a photographic ha filter? Or does the red filter have a different use? I have a Red #25 Orion filter but had not thought to use it in the I3.
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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The red filter is to cut out the unwanted extra light that the tube doesn't need. The one I am getting is a broadband but you could also use a medium band. It helps to cut down on any light pollution.
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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highfnum
super member
Reged: 09/06/06
Posts: 104
Loc: NY
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I got a couple of Image intensifers I built I got a picture of one in my gallery under "highfnum"
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Earlier today I cobbled up another ota to use with the I3. I have a 8X50mm finder that is pretty sharp. In the past I have used it with short fl good quality eyepieces for up to 50-60X as a small travel scope. I attached the lens cell to a short piece of PVC tubing and attached this with duct tape to a nice Techtron focuser I recently purchased from a fello CNr. Next I built a quick and ugly wood platform to use the scope with a solid tripod underneath. In the end I had a 7.5X50 "spotting scope" with the I3 as an ep and a hydrogen alpha filter screwed in.
This was pretty close to the 64mm f/3 system I had been using but I wanted smaller aperture to again test the I3. This little 50mm f/3.4 achromat proved a little sharper than the 64mm with a focal reducer in front of it. There was also less blooming on stars.
Handholding the scope I scanned the surprisingly clear skies outside the house about two hours ago. I saw every object I had seen with the 64mm aperture. It was a little easier handholding it since the scope was smaller and lighter.
Then I put the scope on the tripod and turned it to Barnard 33, the Horse Head Nebula. On a steady mount at 7.5X it was visible! A little easier with averted vision but still there with direct visiom.
This makes me wonder what the latest version I3 would do. It also gives me chill to think what other , more advanced systems are out there that could be adapted by the amateur astro community.
Image intensifiers, high tech cameras, these are the future of amateur astronomy. See deep sky objects from your yard with a telescope that one with 2 or 3 times it's aperture and perfect dark skies would not show you. Wow!
I can see a future where folks like us would only need two telescopes. One would be a medium sized, mid focal ratio scope that would work great on Luna, the planets, double stars, etc. The other would be a shorter focal ratio instrument that combined with what technology could offer would be a killer deep sky platform.
It is cloudy now with rain and snow predicted. Sigh.
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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Bob S.
sage
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 382
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Terry, I used to live in Kingsport, TN but it was too cloudy/cold for my wife. What you describe is exactly what I experienced tonight except I did it with one 14.5" Zambuto-mirrored GOTO Starmaster and my I3 thin-film, MallinCam Hyper Color astrovideo camera and my new 13mm Ethos. Wow, about $5.5K of accessories allows me to do about any kind of viewing I could imagine doing with ONE scope (well, I do have a box of other ep's that I am not including in the equation). DSO's, doubles, planets/luna, you name it, are now within my reach both in suburban and dark-sky environments. These new assisted and visual technologies are making the viewing experience more delightful than they have EVER been IMHO. Bob Schilling
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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What a coincidence! I live between Kingsport and Johnson City. Kingsport was the "small city" I was viewing from and mentioned in my post Jan 5 in this forum.
Bob, you have some VERY nice toys.
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Morovision sells some expensive Gen III night vision monoculars and goggles. Their website indicates very latest technology, mil spec, vatiable gain, etc. Wonder if anyone here has ever adapted something like their PVS-14 to a telescope and compared it to the latest Collins I3?
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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maureenford
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 756
Loc: New Paltz, NY
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Just got off the phone with Bill Collins who has worked out delivery issues with ITT. I can expect to receive my I3 in a few months!
Will post on other threads to insure that the word gets out.
Maureen
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Discovery 12.5" TD on Scopebuggy
with Argo Navis and Feathertouch focuser
27mmPan, 13mm & 8mmEthos, 6mm Radian
Howie Glatter laser and Blug
Coronado PST
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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Hey Terry:
I checked out the Morovision website and see that they are offering 64-72 lp/mm. The higher resolution is nice. The auto gated variable gain is also included which was available last year but was recently restricted to Dept of Defense and Law Enforcement Agencies. The auto gating feature is HIGHLY desirable. I wish I had purchased it this past year.
I will send you a private message with the name of an former US Military SWAT team member who does design, fabrication and repair of these units and he can tell you how it would compare to the Collins I3. You can ask him about adapting it for telescopic use.
My image intensifier tube shipped out Wed this week, hoping it arrives today! With any luck, I will have it completed this weekend.
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Hi Doug,
Thanks for the update.
I called Morovision yesterday and spent some time with one of their reps. The have a "Spot Special", a normally $3800 1X monocolar with all the good specs and accessories for $2500 or so. Spot Specials are units that have a few more spots on the phosphore tube than they like. Fully functional and guaranteed. Thinking that I would not mind a few more spots with such an advanced unit I thought seriously about buying one for a few seconds. I mentioned that I would like to unscrew the objective and make an adapter to use with an astro telescope. He said that would be a bit complicated as the unit was "ruggedized" with the objective built in. Next I asked if the objective end could just be put in a 2-in barrel for astro use but he didn't know.
Last night I made up a 1X monocular to try out with the borrowed Collins I3. This did not work well at all. If I purchased a Spot Special I would have to do some serious alterations and hope it still worked afterwards.
So I guess if the price was half that I would take a chance but I would hate to screw up something and have a very expensive toy that was unreturnable or maybe even unuseable.
Back to Plan 1, self-built.
Please PM me with how you got the tube and how much it was. I would love trying to make one of these.
Let us all know how the project turns out.
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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maureenford
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 756
Loc: New Paltz, NY
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Further clarification re: Collins I3 - for those who are not trying to make their own - they only come in one size 25mm . Also if you really want one ORDER IT NOW to get it at current price.
Maureen
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Discovery 12.5" TD on Scopebuggy
with Argo Navis and Feathertouch focuser
27mmPan, 13mm & 8mmEthos, 6mm Radian
Howie Glatter laser and Blug
Coronado PST
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Bruce Mills
member
Reged: 01/08/08
Posts: 12
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As a lad too long without a project and itching to build something like an I3 but possessed of ignorance of how to go about it , and living across from you all in the UK , do any of you think THIS company might be worth giving a call ?
They look as if they might be helpful and the prices don't look unreasonable . If they have the stock !
Cheers ,
Bruce
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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Welcome to CN Bruce!
I checked out the link and it looks like they are sold out but were offering a monocular with a Gen III tube. It also looks like they repair Gen II tubes and might have tubes in their shop. I would call them and ask if they can offer you a tube without the monocular housing so you can proceed directly to placing it in an EP housing without having to harvest it from the monocular.
These tubes are illegal for US Citizen end users to export due to ITAR, International Traffic in Arms Regulations, but it appears that the website you found is in your country.
You should give them a call.
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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Bruce Mills
member
Reged: 01/08/08
Posts: 12
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Doug , Thanks for the welcome and having a look at the link .
Well , I did get around to sending them an email this weekend to see where they're at about this bespoke intensified eyepiece business , suggesting also that there maybe an untapped market in astro. for them here. It's early Monday here and, as yet, no reply .
Looking at the site again this morning I see that their last update was 2005 ! Doesn't look good does it ?
I know we make high end tubes over here in the UK somewhere or other but I wouldn't know how to track'em down and score a tube for fooling about with . When I do it's a sure thing that I'll be giving you a call !
P.S. Another idle thought : in the days of Ingalls and Porter - were they about today - wouldn't we have had the lowdown on how to build the tubes for ourselves ?
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Reggie
member
Reged: 02/11/08
Posts: 33
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Hi all, sorry to bust in on your thread, but this is the first place I've found with a decent discussion on IITs.
I've been looking at the I3 and its way out of my price range but I have been given access to a couple of NV scopes, a cobra tracker 100 2.7x with a Gen1 plus tube, its got quite a few dark spots, but seems to perform quite well, unfortunately I don't have any decent way to put it on the telescope at this moment in time. The other NV is a gen2, no spots, can't remember the make off the top of my head.
I'm thinking about getting a Yukon or Bushnell NV scope mainly because their price range is way closer to my budget (can be bought for between £150-£300) I was wondering if anyone had any experience with coupling these commercial devices to a scope? I know the quality isn't going to be anywhere near the I3, but if they are anything like the cobra gen1+ not connected to a teleacope then I will get one I think.
I've only owned a telescope for the last couple of months, only had a few really good seeing nights, I got to go to my first dark site with the NV scope at the weekend and was absolutely blown away by the experience with just the sheer amount of stars, I managed to snag a globular cluster in perseus which was a real treat. I'd been using the NV in the back garden at home before we left and didn't think I could get any more excited about the device but being in the total darkness was superb adding a phenomenal amount of stars into the already star rich FOV. The 3 of us that went that night all spent a good hour or so on and off viewing through the NV and all came away feeling lifted by the experience.
How exactly do you guys use the I3/Nv in your setups? Is anyone using theirs on a guide scope at all? Is anyone taking images? I see some of the commercial NV has dslr adapters, whilst others provide a video out connection.
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