Chris Schroeder
Postmaster
Reged: 12/11/04
Posts: 5098
Loc: N.E. WI Sky Glow
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Welcome to Cloudy Nights Reggie, I haven't tried a I3 yet but from what I hear, it't very nice. I did try a inexpensive NV afocal through an EP and it didn't work out at all. Gary (Half Meter) has been usinga I3 for a long, hopefully he'll pop in and give you his opinions.
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Chris
Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
10" DSH with SC DSC, CPC 800 XLT
M102ED S.V., ZS 80FD 10th Anniv, ZS 66SD, PST
POD XL3 http://POD.SchroederCity.com
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Reggie
member
Reged: 02/11/08
Posts: 33
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Thanks for the welcome Chris  I did have a little mess around with afocal and a 25mm plossl last night, I took the objective end off the NV and very, very carefully lowered the NV unit onto the eyepiece. This was a poor experiment but the result was very good, seeing was partly cloudy, but with one of these even a little bit of cloud isn't a problem.
I'm very eager to hear anyones experiences with I3 or non-I3 NV devices. It was quite sad reading that Bob Collins may not be able to produce I3s because of lack of tubes, I wonder if he's considered making a lower spec (Gen1, Gen1+ or Gen2) device that could use lower grade tubes and could be sold at a lower price?
Hopefully my friends Gen2 ATN Biocular will turn up today. Should be fun trying to find out whether we can mod it or just use it for finding/spotting.
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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Hey Reggie:
Welcome to Cloudy Nights!
I built a home made image intensifier with an ITT 9800 Generation III tube, a MX-10160 tube. It has 64 lp/mm resolution with 1800 ma and EBI values of appx 2.5. The tube was very clean, only one spot which was very small (could only see it on the test results) and in an outside zone. I am working on my second one with a new housing. You can see photos of both of my housings in "My Gallery" .. the link is in my signature.
I have helped some other CNers obtain used Generation III tubes. I walked a few folks through the fabrication of the housing which was designed by a friend.
I spent about $40 on the additional stuff required to build the EP. The extra material needed was purchased from Shed Surplus.
While my first image intensifier had a completely homemade housing, I purchased a sight owl 9 housing for my second tube. I have used the IIE with a 50mm lens and H-alpha filter, just holding it by hand up to the sky without any tracking or mount, to view large dim nebula like Barnards Loop, Rosette, etc.
I helped Starstuff1 obtain a used tube and described how to build my housing in an email and he had it in a housing and in the scope the same night he received the tube. He used his in a spyglass setup with a small refractor. He posted a viewing report and image of the setup in the image gallery.
The MX-10160 Generation III tubes are the best to work with for our application.
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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Reggie
member
Reged: 02/11/08
Posts: 33
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Hi Doug, that sounds very interesting, I'd like to discuss a few things with you over the coming weeks/months if thats ok?
I found out the model of NV my friend is waiting for atm, http://www.atncorp.com/NightVisionPreviouslyProducedItems/ATNNVG7-XD4
62lp/mm not too shabby, £780 for the complete unit.
what exactly does an astronomised IIT eyepiece consist of?
Ideally I'd like just for now to try and adapt the cobra, but weight could be an issue, I can do some mods to it, like add a threaded tube with a 1.25" bit on it to drop into a diagonal, but thats probably as far as I will be able to go.
I'd be interested in trying to source a gen3 depending on cost, import restrictions, but really from the gen1+ cobra's performance I would be more than happy just to have a a smaller yukon or similar gen1+ as a spotter/guider/eyepiece (hmmmmmn, modular perhaps?), if the eyepiece lense that you use goes where I think it does, it shouldn't be very difficult to mod one.
I'll take a look at the pics later, I've already spent too much time on this post, back later when my understanding partner has gone home.
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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i Reggie,
Welcome to the forum. I'm the guy Doug helped through a home made project as mentioned above. The "IIT eyepiece" consists of only a few pieces: the telescope eyepiece barrel; a housing holding the intensifier tube, battery pack and switch; and an eyepiece that focuses on the output screen.
Regarding a Gen 1 + unit: I have one of those. I removed the objective and made an adapter to use it with an 8-inch newtonian. The improvement was not that much. For nebulas a conventional nebular or OIII filter was better. The image was soft. I tried replacing the eyepiece with a better one and still the views were mushy. I have heard that promising results have been obtained with Gen II units. The Gen III units, especially the thin film versions, are miles ahead in resolution and sensitivity.
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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Reggie
member
Reged: 02/11/08
Posts: 33
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Thanks StarStuff1, that all looks pretty simple, all of the yukon/bushnell devices already come with the diopter? lenses, focus isn't an issue with the cobra, the other NV scope I have access to is a Starlight Dedal 210, focus on that is fine too, I can't seem to find any info on the mfrs website, this is the closest looking I found: http://www.nightvision.ru/eng/products/nv_rifle_scopes/d270/
I found other info through google:
Dedal-210 (64) Gen.Super I+, 1.6x, 64mmF/1.2, Illum. reticle, IR 75mW
which suggests its not gen2 as the owner thought, its super gen1+. I also found that it was 50lp/mm which is ok for free 
From a Gen1+ unit I am not expecting I3 quality but I am already sold on IITs just on an hour or so of viewing on a gen1+ unit. although it really does depend on how much we are talking for gen2 Intensifier tube only and building the rest? I'm also wondering about the possibility of an eyepiece projection mod?
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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You are thinking pretty straight. If it is free use and enjoy. If you find it gives better views then that is what matters most. I don't pretend to be an expert on this stuff. I just know what I have seen. Maybe Gen Super 1+ is better than the Gen 1 plus unit I have in my basement and rarely use.
I did not see a Dedal 210 on the website.. The Dedal 180 was there though.
From what I have seen a new device with a Gen II tube sells for +- $1000 US. A used tube, if found, would be less, of couse.
I have not tried any photography through an IIT so can't comment on eyepiece projection.
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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half meter
Postmaster
Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 12517
Loc: Great Lakes
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I just skimmed this thread and learned that Bill Collins can't get new tubes from ITT. I'll read the thread in more detail as time is available.
I have a contact in Japan that supplies thin film Gen 3+ tubes of nearly identical quality to ITT. For the DIY crowd, the company name is Hamamatsu. Their list prices are high but maybe Bill Collins can work out an OEM deal. They may have blems for sale as well. I've mentioned the astronomy application to them and they showed interest.
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Gary
Collins I3 (Thin Film) Image Intensifying Eyepiece
Coronado Maxscope DS 90 <0.5A w/BF30
152 mm f/8 TMB/A&M Carbon Fiber APO; f/5 with 4" Borg ED Field Flattener/Reducer
20" Obsession/OMI Mirror/Servocat/Argo Navis
 First Light for the 30" Obsession at BEOTS!
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Mike K
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 464
Loc: Central Texas
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Additional info in another thread.
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Clear skies,
Mike K.
30°31" N 97°44" W, LP: Red
Observe: Once or twice a week back yard, once a month under dark skies
Favorites: Globulars, planets, face-on spirals
Equipment: CPC925/XT10i/TMB-92SS/Lunt LS60THaDS
Eyepieces: Naglers, Ethoi, UO HDs, Hyperion Zoom
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Reggie
member
Reged: 02/11/08
Posts: 33
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Hi StarStuff1, I wasn't questioning your experience Just saying that if gen1+ was all I could get then I would be as happy as a clown fetishist at a clown convention
My friends atn NV biocular turned up today, its actually a Gen3, 69 lp/mm, officialy stamped apparently.
If that thousand bucks translated to £500 for a new gen2 tube then I might hold out for one or get 2nd hand sooner.
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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No problem, Reggie. Go for it! Uhh, lets don't talk about fetishes. Anyone seen my rubber chicken lately?
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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Reggie
member
Reged: 02/11/08
Posts: 33
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update on the atn scope, it takes 1.25" filters on the objective without modification of any kind so its also a perfect fit for a 1.25" diagonal, only one small problem, its been cloudy/raining since he got them  They work way better than the cobra which is to be expected, although I haven't tried them out yet myself.
I borrowed a tripod from my Dad so we can try afocal photography, I'll post some pics when we get the chance to try it all out.
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steve007m13
journeyman
Reged: 08/08/06
Posts: 5
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I have recently received a thin film i3 and it has been spectacular for galaxies and nebulas-better than I expected. M51, ngc 4565, m104 are like ccd images. I was having trouble getting it to focus in an 18 inch f/5 dob. To correct this problem I bought a Seibert 1.3x 2inch barlow. This brings the unit into focus and brings the mag down to 19x-perfect for my system for galaxies. 1.3x doesn't increase the noise at all. Another important accessory I use is a narrowband (13nn astronomik hydrogen-alpha filter). I used this for the first time on m57. M57 was very low in the sky and barely visable. Using the filter what an amazing difference.
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Hi Steve and welcome to CN!
You have me confused. An 18-in f/5 dob would have a focal length of 90 inches. Add a 1.3 barlow and you have 117 inches fl. Since most I3s have a 25mm fl eyepiece this combo would give a magnification of about 117X not 19X. Perhaps the "19X" was just a typo.
Your I3 should work even better at faster focal ratios, especially when using Ha filters. A lower profile focuser, cutting the truss poles a little shorter or moving the primary lower in the mirror box may allow you to use the I3 withough a barlow. When viewing galaxies and star clusters I find a #25 red filter helps a little in cutting down light pollution.
Let us know more about your viewing experiences with the 13nm Ha filter. Just wait until the Summer Milky Way climbs up. On a clear moonless night it is like being in a toy store with an unlimited gift certificate using an IIE and Ha filter in combo! 
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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steve007m13
journeyman
Reged: 08/08/06
Posts: 5
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You are right. The I3 has a 25mm Focal Length. I meant to say with the barlow it brings it down to 19mm Focal Length or 120x.
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Just curious, did you get a brand new unit? If so, ow long did you have to wait? 
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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steve007m13
journeyman
Reged: 08/08/06
Posts: 5
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I got mine new during the winter but haven't had a chance to use it until a few weeks ago. It took about a year and a half. During the wait Bill was having trouble getting orders so there was a concern whether he could continue producing them. He could finally get the tubes but at the time the demand for the i3s wasn't there. I wrote him a long letter saying not to give up and that he has one of the best astronomic devices on the market. I also suggested he attend and advertise at the NEAF show. He could sell many more i3s if he does this. Anyway, I prayed about this. After the letter went out the orders started coming in for him. He had enough for a production run and the rest is history. I guess things are going better for him now. The more people who look through these I3 thin film will be interested and be good for his business.
I know Lindy Williams has probably sold many of them with his articles. It was one of Lindy's articles that got me interested.
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Yes, the article by Lindy grabbed my attention, too. I had used a Collins I3 that belonged to a local University several years ago and was unimpressed with it's unfiltered performance in a light polluted sky. How wrong I was. Just shows what a little education can do.
Keep us posted with your memorable observing reports.
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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ccs_hello
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 2805
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Just wish to add the Image Intensifier FoV info
(asuming 18mm diameter tube is the common one):
My CN post (Image Intensifier FoV) in the Equipment Forum.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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steve007m13
journeyman
Reged: 08/08/06
Posts: 5
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Just used the i-3 thin film last night with the 18 inch f/5. Wow m-27 and m-17 with the 13nm H-A filter were spectacular . It was difficult at first to find the swan shape because there was so much nebula visable in and around m-17. Comparing my old ccd images (using a now sold Sbig-237) revealed more detail in the I-3. You don't get the true color of the objects you get with ccd but the I-3 showed more detail and the contrast was greater at least comparing them with the pictures I took. The H-a filter is good also in getting the background darker.
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