maureenford
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 756
Loc: New Paltz, NY
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Very interesting comments and quite positive. I'm avidly reading everything I can about the I3 and awaiting a return call from Bill Collins. Depending on his answers to some of my questions, will most likely order one.
Happy New Year,
Maureen
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Discovery 12.5" TD on Scopebuggy
with Argo Navis and Feathertouch focuser
27mmPan, 13mm & 8mmEthos, 6mm Radian
Howie Glatter laser and Blug
Coronado PST
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RandyR
Enginerd
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 14076
Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL
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If the I3 was in "natural colors" I'd like one. They're still very nice, I enjoyed looking through Gary's when I was in Michigan. I just can't see buying one for myself because I just don't enjoy the 'shades of green' viewing.
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"Dark Skies & Great Viewing"
RandyR / NQ0R
GPS 9.25 XLT/Sky Align /FeatherTouch
TV85 w/FeatherTouch
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Doug Culbertson
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/06/05
Posts: 970
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Quote:
If the I3 was in "natural colors" I'd like one. They're still very nice, I enjoyed looking through Gary's when I was in Michigan. I just can't see buying one for myself because I just don't enjoy the 'shades of green' viewing.
Randy,
When I spent an evening using Bob's I3, I mentioned how green everything was at first. Bob told me to keep looking, and in short order everything looked monochromatic! I found this to be an interesting effect, and ended up really enjoying the I3. In fact, it is now on my list of "must haves".
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Doug
Midway, FL
Life's too short to drink cheap beer
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Agreed. The longer you use it the more monochromatic it becomes. Maybe just seeing things that are invisible with "normal" optics is jading me (pun intended). One thing I have noticed is that the eye must be placed pretty near the center of the I3 or the image starts getting distorted. Guess this is normal?
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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maureenford
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 756
Loc: New Paltz, NY
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Is it true that the darker the observing site, the less noticeable the green tint? That was my experience the one time I looked through one at a very dark site. I believe it was an older !3. What was noticeable was the scintillation, but it was not disturbing enough to discourage me.
Maureen
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Discovery 12.5" TD on Scopebuggy
with Argo Navis and Feathertouch focuser
27mmPan, 13mm & 8mmEthos, 6mm Radian
Howie Glatter laser and Blug
Coronado PST
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maureenford
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 756
Loc: New Paltz, NY
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Bob,
Thanks for the "heads up." There is a wait for the I3 - not sure how long. Had a nice chat with Bill Collins today. He answered all my questions and I"M ON THE WAIT LIST FOR THE I3!!!
Maureen
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Discovery 12.5" TD on Scopebuggy
with Argo Navis and Feathertouch focuser
27mmPan, 13mm & 8mmEthos, 6mm Radian
Howie Glatter laser and Blug
Coronado PST
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Hi guys,
Another night with the I3 but under not so good observing conditions. Last night we were in a neighborhood just a couple of miles from a town of 40,000 or so. Yard lights, street lights, etc. Very cold with thin, high clouds scattered about the sky. NELM 4.5-5 where stars were visible.
With my cobbled up 64mm f/3 refractor and a little under 8X (80mm f/4 achromat choked down to 64mm, .6 focal reducer, ha filter) we just scanned the skies with the I3. Unfortunately Cygnus was already behind the trees on a nearby ridge but here are the nebulas we clearly saw:
California, Pac Man, Flame, IC 1805, IC 1848, Rosette, Cone, Orion and the entire Barnard's Loop. With the nearly 5° tfov we could see the brighter portion of Barnard's Loop in the same field as the Flame and the portion of IC 434 that contains the Horse Head. The HH itself was not directly visible at this low magnification of 8X and the scope being hand held.
For several of the smaller objects we put the I3 with ha filter directly in the focuser of a 10-in f/5. We noticed that the Horse Head was barely detectable early in the evening when it was low in the east. By 10 pm it was clearly visible.
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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Doug Culbertson
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/06/05
Posts: 970
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Great report, thanks for posting! Man, everytime I think about the I3 I start looking for things to sell to get it.
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Doug
Midway, FL
Life's too short to drink cheap beer
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1811
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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There are references on the I3 website to both 25mm and 15mm EP's, but the pricing lists and product lists only show the 25mm EP. Is there in fact a 15mm EP available? If so, I was wondering how the FOV compares (I notice the I3 has a pretty narrow FOV). Also, how well does this work with a Barlow?
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Hmmm, recently the website showed a choice for either a 15mm or a 25mm fl eyepiece. Just checked it and did not see the 15mm still offered. The afov of the I3 I am using is around 35°. Wish it were wider but this may not be possible due to the design if the intensifier itself.
FWIW, last year I obtained a new Gen 1 monocular with a 40mm objective, 5X I think. I removed the objective and cobbled up an adapter to use the rest of the intensifier with a telescope. It was nowhere near as good as the I3. Images were soft and the gain in image intensity was poor. A regular eyepiece with an OIII filter worked much better on the same scope. I replaced the narrow field ep on this Gen 1 unit with a decent 50° 24mm kellner from a pair of broken military binoculars. A very slight gain in sharpness but not much. Still much softer than a Gen 3 unit.
I haven't barlowed the I3 as I am usually looking for nebulas so I need very low power and a photographic ha filter. Guess you could barlow the I3 when not using any other filters. I'll try that tonight if there are some sucker holes in the sky.
Also, OIII and Deep Sky filters threaded into the I3 don't seem to do a lot, at least for me.
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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Terry, you are comparing the Gen I to a Gen III. The Gen I tube was designed in the 1960's ... a bit out of date. The Gen III tubes started in 1982 and has since undergone much technological advancement.
That doesn't have anything to do with it being built by Collins. The tubes can't be modified, Collins just tests them and returns tubes not up to spec, which he admits is very rare. The tubes are tested by ITT and provide specs for Halo Diameter, EBI, Photocathode Sensitivity, Signal to Noise Ratio etc. I know someone who tests these tubes and has quite a resume.
I am about to purchase a tube right now, for $1,100 (no waiting list) that has better specs than the Collins. No one spec can tell the story, it is the combination that makes all the difference. I am looking at tubes with an EBI of 2.5 maximum and a PCR of 1800 minimum, collins is 1500. The resolution is the same 64 lp/mm. Last year there were tubes with resolution of 73 lp/mm available for which Collins would have to charge over $4,000.
The extra pieces to build the unit are appx. $30 and the results have to be seen in person. They are amazing. The Collins is a very heavy unit, due to its housing. The tube itself is very light, as will be my homebuilt unit. Regardless, you don't want to drop these units on the ground no matter what.
It is not difficult to build these. You just need to do your research and learn the specs and what they mean when combined together. I have a friend who works for aerospace contractors who is helping me build the unit since it is the first time for me. He has built 3 units for less than the cost of one Collins, and the tubes you can get are far superior for much less money.
I have used a homebuilt image intensifier which was awesome.
Building the unit is not for everyone, but no one should be scared into thinking it can't be done, or the quality won't be as great as spending $3,000.
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Yes I am very much aware of the performance differences between Gen 1 and Gen 3. I had an opportunity to get that Gen 1 monocular for a song and was interested it what its' potential was. Not very much. Back in 1970 I was on active duty with the Army and got to see and use one of the Starlight scopes. Amazing for that time.
Please keep us informed on what it takes to build from scratch. Actually, the Gen 3 unit I am using is not as sharp as I think it could be. Brighter stars tend to bloom more than what seems reasonable. Maybe these latest tubes are much better but I have not yet had the pleasure of looking through one.
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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Terry, I have to give you credit for modifying the Gen I. I have found equipment modification projects extremely satisfying. The process teaches us so much more about the mechanics and offers us a better understanding of our equipment, the limits and possibilities.
It turns out that all of the tubes have some blooming to one degree or another, that is something that none of them can do away with completely.
The tubes that were available last year, which were 73 lp/mm, were sold as autogated but that is now restricted to Dept. of Defense of Defense and Law Enforment Agencies so not available to us. The autogated feature allowed you to play with the contrast for the best image. I wished I had picked up that tube last year but regardless, the 64 pl/mm tube was more than acceptable IMHO.
I will let you know how the project works out.
Regards,
Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
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Alicatt
member
Reged: 03/28/07
Posts: 95
Loc: Wick, Scotland / Eksel, Belgiu...
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Quote:
Yes I am very much aware of the performance differences between Gen 1 and Gen 3. I had an opportunity to get that Gen 1 monocular for a song and was interested it what its' potential was. Not very much. Back in 1970 I was on active duty with the Army and got to see and use one of the Starlight scopes. Amazing for that time.
Please keep us informed on what it takes to build from scratch. Actually, the Gen 3 unit I am using is not as sharp as I think it could be. Brighter stars tend to bloom more than what seems reasonable. Maybe these latest tubes are much better but I have not yet had the pleasure of looking through one.
Terry
A couple of years ago I went to a company to give a demonstration and do a survey of then current CCTV technology. For the Demo I was asked to set up my equipment in a certain area with a view of their perimeter fence at a distance of about 75m, they had lined up a small invasion force for me to detect (their security guards wearing balaclavas  )I was up against their existing system which had a Philips mono camera with a Gen I ITT intensifier. They struggled to see the men at the fence and I had problems trying to stop my camera switching back to colour! CCD chips have come a long way in a short time, I was using a Pentax 20:1 f1.9 zoom lens (10mm to 200mm) with the JVC 1460 colour/mono camera. I do have a GEN I "nachtkijker" which is handy but for monotoring the premises the CCTV system out performs it easily ... and with colour too.
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2759
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Talked to Bill Collins today....sale of I3 is on hold as he cannot secure product from ITT because of DOD contracts which have priority. He has no idea when, if ever, availability of tubes will resume.
Didn't seem to be very optimistic....
The other thing that puts me off is the 35 degree apparent fov....might be hard to get used to after using my Ethos.
Be like looking through a soda straw.
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10x50 Fujinon FMT-SX binos
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 homemade achromat....EE Barnard MW Sweeper
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
35mm Pan, 26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
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Bob S.
sage
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 382
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Mr. Bill, That is very sad news indeed about the I3's. You get to see so much that 35 degrees is not a big deal. Open clusters are ultra-boring in them anyway. However, globular clusters are another story and most are not larger the than I3's FOV. Bob
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maureenford
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 756
Loc: New Paltz, NY
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So Disappointed!!! This was my solution for my case of aperture fever. I really had my heart set on this. Not sure what my next step will be.
Maureen
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Discovery 12.5" TD on Scopebuggy
with Argo Navis and Feathertouch focuser
27mmPan, 13mm & 8mmEthos, 6mm Radian
Howie Glatter laser and Blug
Coronado PST
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 437
Loc: East Tennessee
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Maybe Doug can lead the way for us to make our own!
Terry
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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greg
sage
Reged: 01/25/05
Posts: 389
Loc: Central Ca.
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Maybe it's time for new technology... Oh... and that thing Terry said about Doug... 
Greg
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30" F/4.5 Truss
12" LX200 GPS
Orion ST120mm F/5
Celestron 102mm F/5 Finderscope
2" 26mm 70* Illuminated Reticle
26mm T5 Nagler
20mm T5 Nagler
13mm ETHOS
Pentax XW 10mm
MallinCam Color Hyper Plus
9" Speco HighRes. Color CRT Monitor
Light polluted Backyard
10' Home Dome
MallinCam Deep Space Observatory
Great Darksite 1.5 Hrs. Away
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Douglas
Vendor - Night Vision Astronomy
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Pound Ridge, NY
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Thanks Greg, Thanks Terry. I appreciate the support. I am making tremendous headway in the project. My current specs will allow me to build the unit with a 45 degree FOV.
I had three Mill Spec (but used) tubes tested yesterday and was going over the results today to decide on one. I could purchase the tube new for $1,300 but thought I would save $200 since the results on the used tubes were really good. The new tube comes with a 2 year warranty, the used tube has a one year warranty.
While supply is tight, they are still available. The test results are produced for each tube by serial number and are available with an explanation of how to read the test results. The new tubes are 100% clean of dark spots.
I read the posts about Bob Collins not knowing when, if ever, they would get their hands on the ITT tubes to continue production while I was choosing between a new tube and the results on three used tubes. I recognize that it will be a homebuilt unit, but I will be proud of my accomplishment when I show it off to fellow observers.
Plus, I will have an image intensifier for 1/3 the cost.
I will post photos of the construction and completed unit once I get that phase underway.
- Doug
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Night Vision Astronomy
BIPH - Binocular Photon Machine
IDA Member
Obsession 12.5" Argo Navis/ServoCat #1528
Tak FSQ-106 EDX2 & EM-200 Temma II
Canon 450 Xsi No Modification
QSI 532ws CCD with AstroDon Filters
Home Built Gen III Image Intensifier
Denk II Binos D14s & D21s
MallinCam Hyper Plus Color
Bunch of Naglers & 13mm Ethos
Stellarvue 80mm F/7 NHNG #36
PST SolarMax 40 Double Stack
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
AstroTrac
|
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