Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

Pages: 1
biskit
super member


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 183
Loc: Asheville, NC
Yeah, size matters... but what ELSE does?
      #20801 - 11/15/03 01:36 PM

My wife and I have been cosidering a couple of different binoculars, including: Oberwerk's 10-30x60 (zoom), or 9x60, Orion's Scenix 10x50 or Venture 8-20x50 (zoom).

From what I understand, it's a great idea to get at least 50mm of apeture for astronomy. We also want to keep the magnification relatively low (8 - 12), so we can hand hold these, OR, at a later time, mount them on a tripod. We also like the idea of a zoom as these can be used for birding and what not. We go popup camping every-other weekend March - November, so we are out and about quite a bit.

Last night while shopping, we ran across quite a few "department store" binoculars (Simmons, Bushnell, Redmon)for a fraction of the price of some others.

I assume that the optics and quality of these lesser priced brands are inferior to the products that I previously mentioned, as well as some others. "Ya git whatcha pay for." Kind of like telescopes, or anything else, I guess.

Is it worth it to pay more to get more? Are you actually getting more? What are the problems with lesser priced products -- glare? fogging? light gathering ability? durabilty?

OR are lower priced units something that we SHOULD consider?

lemme know!

Thanks,

Chuck(ie) -- biskit



--------------------
***When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will be free!!***

Orion ST80
Orion SkyQuest XT8


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Yeah, size matters... but what ELSE does? new [Re: biskit]
      #20825 - 11/15/03 03:44 PM

Chuck;

There is good and bad in most price ranges. If you haven't read the reviews from Todd Gross in the link below, it would be a great place to start. Click on the link for the Binoc's reviews.
http://www.weatherman.com/

A couple of things to consider: Eye relief if either of you wear glasses and want to use them with glasses. (keeps from having to change the focus when passing them back and forth)
For astro use you will want a wider Field of View. (FOV) 5 degrees or so would be about the minimum.
Also, waterproof or nitrogen filled units will not fog up like ones that are not constructed that way.

I usually figure out the max I am willing to spend, figure out the features I want, then find some used ones of a better quality than I could afford new, and buy those.

AS always YMMV.

Blessings
Keith


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Yeah, size matters... but what ELSE does? new [Re: ]
      #20836 - 11/15/03 05:24 PM

Also look for are bak4 prisims and fully multi-coated lenses (both on the objective lens and the eyepieces). These will help increase light transfer (light gathering ability) and thereby contrast. This will be particularly evident if you are viewing form dark skys... These types of things are often not included in many department store models.

Also note that zoom binoculars usually have a lower FOV then fixed magnifactions. They are however very helpful if these will be your main viewing tool.

As for if these higher quality designs are worth the extra money I have to say it's a personal choice. There is definitly a difference, when I first used my Orion 11x70 binoculars after using some Tasco 7x35's I was surprised by the great amount of detail I could make out. Some of this was do to the extra aperture and some of it was do to the increased quality of the optics. Both factors improved minute details. I would compare the difference to watching a VHS tape on an old TV and watching a DVD on a HD TV. To some people it doesn't really matter much but to those who are using binoculars for things like astronomy and birding it is all about detail. Wouldn't you want to see all the little edges the bird's feathers? Or the texture of it's beak? To real observers these are the things that make the hobby.

Make sure you get some reviews though because every price range has it's lesser models, more expensive is not always better. Some of the higher priced models have some problems with edge performance. The image loses detail towards the edge of the image. Or also some experiance spherical abberation, where the image appears distorted like it it on a sphere. Also look out of glare or light reflecting off of the interal barral of the binoculars. Most have baffles (or little edges) that help absorb light and prevent this. So while there are still things to worry about in higher priced binoculars they will for the most part be on a different level than the cheaper department store models.

Also if you are thinking of using a mount later on you might want to think of a monopod (one legged tripod) for real portability on some of your trips. Though it won't be as steady it will allow slightly higher magnifacations and would be good for surprise bird spottings on hikes or something. I personally haven't used one though.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Yeah, size matters... but what ELSE does? new [Re: ]
      #21007 - 11/16/03 06:30 AM

Chuck,
As far as the department store binos go you are going to get what you pay for ... if that. But, it also depends upon the store. If they also sell Nikon, Pentax, Canon and other quality optical brands, then you will be somewhat safer but you will may also be paying premium dollar (the sales don't start until the day after Christmas).

Like most everyone has already said here, research what others have said. Check this site under binoculars and check Todd Gross' site for bino reviews. If you are more into birding, then I would suggest going to Goggle and search under "birding binoculars reviews".

You may also find that zoom binos have not been recommended for astronomy. Depends what your primary purpose will be.

Good luck with the search. Nick


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Yeah, size matters... but what ELSE does? new [Re: biskit]
      #21277 - 11/16/03 11:55 PM

Quote:


OR are lower priced units something that we SHOULD consider?

lemme know!





Although optics manufactured entirely in China are getting better, as are the housings for them, I still prefer at least the optics to be made in Japan.

Orion's Vistas are probably the least expensive Japanese made field glass available in a standard size (fully multicoated, BAK4), and look to be a good value. For about the same price, their Savannah's are waterproof (optics made in Japan, assembled in China). Worth a look.

http://www.telescope.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EdZModerator
Professor EdZ
*****

Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12509
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Yeah, size matters... but what ELSE does? new [Re: biskit]
      #21313 - 11/17/03 06:05 AM

Things to watch out for in cheap binoculars

cast white metal housings that crack easily if accidentily dropped. You won't know that till it cracks.

Shiny or white or bright exposed surfaces on inside of barrels will destroy contrast.

No retainer clips holding prisms in place. If the prism glue comes loose you have a loose prism shaking around that requires a shop to repair. Probably more expensive than the binocs.

Uncoated surfaces. This can be seen pretty easily by looking at the reflections in both the objective lenses and the eyepieces. Notice the several reflections in each. Any white ones will be reducing contrast and contributing to lower light ransmission, light scatter and ghosting.

Generally, zoom binoculars, although they provide a neat feature, are considered inferior to fixed mag binocs. One thing is for sure, if they go out of allignment, they are nearly impossible to get back in, even by the guys in the shops.

Access to allignment screws or lack of allignment screws.

Loose focuser, press the binocs up to your eyes. Can you move the focus with pressure up to your eyes. If so, reject them.

No tripod mounting adapter screw hole? You may want to consider if your not buying with handholding as your excluvise use in mind.

Poor sharpness in outer areas of the lens. If a binocular doesn't show a sharp image at least 60% out in any lens, it should be rejected.

Look thru them at a distant point source light. back your eyes away a little bit. Do the lights merge as one thru both barrels? Also look at the entire picture in each barrel individually, check around the edges, top bottom left right. Is it exactly the same picture in each barrel? You can have collimation without image match. Reject any binoculars if you don't get both to match.

Reject anything in bubble wrap. If you can't look thru them before you lay your money down, keep your money in your pocket.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
KennyJ

*****

Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10081
Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Yeah, size matters... but what ELSE does? new [Re: EdZ]
      #21678 - 11/18/03 04:29 PM

Chuck ,

Zoom binos can be fun at times but in my experience are not to be highly recommended for astronomy.

I've not tried the 10 -30 x 60s but although the specs. may sound quite reasonable there are always severe limitations with field of view with all zooms I've tried.

I wish some manufacturer COULD come up with something like a 10 -30 x 60 WITH a TFOV that ranges between say 6 degrees at 10x down to 2.0 degrees at 30x but even this modest desire seems to be way beyond any designer thus far.

I also find that zoom binos never seem as BRIGHT as fixed power binos , and I've long had a hunch that TFOV has a bearing on perceived brightness but this is just another one of my theories based on years of practical experience that gets slaughtered by so caled "optics experts" every time I try to offer such ideas forward.

The proof is in the pudding though -- take my advice and stick to FIXED magnification and an exit pupil of around 4mm regardless of which range you prefer.

regards --Kenny.

--------------------
Two eyes and a preference to use both



Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Extra information
12 registered and 28 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  EdZ 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 2143

Jump to

Home



Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics