astronomer
super member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 120
Loc: Cyprus
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Hello everybody,
I'm thinking of two scopes.. I will do some serious astrophotography.
I'm between a 4" Refractror APO OTA and the Celestron 11" f/10 carbon fiber SCT OTA.
If i go for the refractor I'm thinking of a Vixen one.
The photography I will do is planetary and deep sky as well.
So.. any advises are appreciated.
My mount is the EQ6 Pro SkyScan.. so there is no issue of the mount..
Thank you and Happy New Year!
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Cyprus Astronomical Society
www.CyprusAstronomy.com
Stop Destroying The Earth!
It's Where I Keep All My Stuff!!!
________________________________________
Skywatcher 200mm Newtonian
Skywatcher ED80 Pro
EQ6 Pro Skyscan
Vixen Porta Mount.
Canon 40D
Astronomik CLS
Astronomik UHC
Clip System Filters
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cbwerner
sage
Reged: 08/27/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Actually, if you plan on doing DSOs with the C11, I think you'll find that the PE of the mount will be an issue. Regardless, starting off doing DSOs with the focal length of the C11 is going to be frustrating - I count myself among the hordes who have tried it and then gone the refractor route.
If you're main interest is planetary with DSO's as a fill-in, I'd go with the C11; if your interests are reversed, I'd go with the refractor.
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Chris Werner
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12935
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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You've posted this is a few forums now.. My answer is the same, just in the other forum...
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
 Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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Bill W.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1559
Loc: Western PA, USA
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I'd definitely figure focal length into your choice. I'd be hard pressed to go with a C11 for anything but planetary imaging unless I had a AP1200 or ME.
-Bill
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Orion Atlas EQ-G (EQMOD), SBIG ST-2000XM & AO7 (moth balled at the moment)
Astro-Tech 8" Imaging Newtonian & Stellarvue SV66ED
Skunk Hollow Observatory
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D_talley
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 942
Loc: Richmond VA
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I use both a 4 inch and a 14 inch scope for my astrophotography. Some DSOs need as much light gathering as you can get. I use my 14 inch at F2 with the help of an add on lens.
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Dwight
SBIG ST2000xm
TEC 140 APO #74
Meade LX200 14 OTA
Orion 12.5 DOB
Celestron C8+
Celestron 102AZ
Losmandy G11 Gemini
Argo Navis
Canon 350D self mod
Hyperstar
ST-4 Guider
STV Guider
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Bill W.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1559
Loc: Western PA, USA
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At f/2 on a C11... it's like I said about focal length... 
-Bill
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Orion Atlas EQ-G (EQMOD), SBIG ST-2000XM & AO7 (moth balled at the moment)
Astro-Tech 8" Imaging Newtonian & Stellarvue SV66ED
Skunk Hollow Observatory
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TeamGS
Post Laureate
.gif)
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 3073
Loc: Elk Grove, CA
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If you are looking to do both planetary and DSO's, and you only want one scope, then I would go with the SCT, and add a focal reducer. Using an F/6.3 reducer would get you to around 1700mm, which is doable (though not ideal), given great alignment, and well trained pec, and good guiding.
Regards,
Gary
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Celestron 80ED
Losmandy G11
NexStar 80
Starlight Xpress SXV-H9
SXV guidehead, ToUcam 840
http://www.teamgs.org/astrophotography.htm
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Kenny2004
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/17/04
Posts: 1528
Loc: Toronto, Canada
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I use an SCT and I can vouch to say that a focal reducer is absolutely mandatory. An F/3.3 is good to have in conjunction with a f/6.3.
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Skywatcher Black Diamond 80ED /w HEQ5 Pro
Celestron 8" SCT /w XLT
Celestron CPC800XLT
Astro Tech 66mm
Meade DSI-C on a homebrew guidescope
ATik 314L+
Philips SPC900NC Webcam
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Jared
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/11/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: Piedmont, California, U.S.
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For planetary imaging I would get the C11. For deep sky, I would get the 4" APO. Prime focus with a C11 when you are a beginner is a recipe for frustration. Frankly, I don't think the EQ-6 is up to doing a nice job with this scope. It's a good mount and an excellent value, but a 2800mm focal length is very LONG! Even with an f/3.3 reducer you will be imaging at nearly 1,000mm which is a lot for a beginner.
Personally, I would decide which type of photography I wanted to do. The equipment and techniques for planetary photography are pretty different from those used in deep sky imaging. For planetary imaging you need the following:
- Good seeing is key
- Long focal length is required for reasonable image scale
- Large aperture will provide additional resolution on the best nights
- Mount should be equatorial and of reasonable quality, but if it's good enough for visual use with the scope it's probably good enough for planetary photography
- The camera should be able to take a large number of short duration frames in a small amount of time--such as a web cam; the field of view of the camera is generally not important
For deep sky imaging, you need something different:
- Dark skies are generally more important than good seeing (though good seeing is a bonus for the best possible resolution)
- A really top quality mount will have a bigger impact on image quality (especially for beginners) than the quality of the optical tube. As a guideline, do not put a scope/camera combination on your mount that exceeds 50% of the rated capacity of the mount! In the case of the EQ6, that means your scope/camera should weight no more than 30 pounds or so. With shorter focal lengths, you might be able to go a little higher; with longer focal lengths, 30 pounds would be a lot.
- Low noise cameras dominate this type of imaging--whether they be cooled astronomy CCD cameras or digital SLR's. A wide field of view in the camera (big chip) will expand the list of subjects you can go after
- A flat field is much more important in DSO imaging since the chips are much larger than those used in web cams
As I said, it's a different set of skills and a different set of equipment. I'd pick one to go after and recognize that you will likely need more than one scope/mount/camera for the two types of imaging.
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- Jared Willson
- A few refractors
- A couple of GEM's
- One camera
- Two eyeballs
- Some heavily light polluted skies
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c131frdave
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 4373
Loc: Arcanum, Ohio
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Quote:
If you are looking to do both planetary and DSO's, and you only want one scope, then I would go with the SCT, and add a focal reducer. Using an F/6.3 reducer would get you to around 1700mm, which is doable (though not ideal), given great alignment, and well trained pec, and good guiding.
Regards,
Gary
Don't listen to Gary on this one. He hit his head or something.
I started with a 11" SCT and it was the worst mistake of my astrophotography career.
If you plan to shoot planetary exclusively, then an SCT will work fine, but you'd still be better off with a big newt or something. That scope is way too big for your mount anyway.....
Think short FL. The shorter the better. If you wanted to get into model rocketry, would you start with solid fuel rockets, or liquid? Sure, liquid would be cool, but you'd probably blow your face off. Think easy. Think simple. Think short. Think light. Think little APO. 
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Tak NJP
SXV-H9
Various sizes and shapes of formed glass
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astronomer
super member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 120
Loc: Cyprus
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I'd like to thank all of you trying to help me out in this matter..
I haven't decided yet what should I take.. I want to be sure that I will get the right scope that will do the job for me... I'm planning to do MORE planetary photography than deep sky.. for deep sky photography I wanna do the M31, M42 and some other similar DSO's. Not too faint ones.
I have a Vesta web cam with mods. If it's necessary I'll get a DSLR.
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Cyprus Astronomical Society
www.CyprusAstronomy.com
Stop Destroying The Earth!
It's Where I Keep All My Stuff!!!
________________________________________
Skywatcher 200mm Newtonian
Skywatcher ED80 Pro
EQ6 Pro Skyscan
Vixen Porta Mount.
Canon 40D
Astronomik CLS
Astronomik UHC
Clip System Filters
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ClownFish
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/26/05
Posts: 6129
Loc: Singapore
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Those are HUGE DSOs!!! You will need a focal length of around 800 to capture them. The C11 is WAY too long, and a focal reducer may not help much. You will also need a DSLR or film 25mm camera to capture those targets in all their glory. A webcam is just too narrow, especially with a long focal length scope.
I agree with everyone else - if you must choose between the short APO or long SCT - go with the APO. But i would also consider a regular Newt or Schmidt Newt too.
CF
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Learn all about Polar Alignment and Manual Guiding on my website at www.PetesAstrophotography.com! Or visit my Foreign Service Blog!
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Kenny2004
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/17/04
Posts: 1528
Loc: Toronto, Canada
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I second the motion - SCT is too hard to image DSOs even with a focal reducer - for planets, it's great. I wished I did the refractor route myself instead of investing in the SCT.
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Skywatcher Black Diamond 80ED /w HEQ5 Pro
Celestron 8" SCT /w XLT
Celestron CPC800XLT
Astro Tech 66mm
Meade DSI-C on a homebrew guidescope
ATik 314L+
Philips SPC900NC Webcam
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TeamGS
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/20/04
Posts: 3073
Loc: Elk Grove, CA
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My wife just got done checking my head for a bump, and couldn't seem to find any. I guess there must be another explanation for my suggestions.
Given the parameters of the initial request: Imaging both planetary and DSO's and with only one scope, then I will still stand by my initial suggestion.
I guess I should have qualified my initial suggestion by saying that I started with guided exposures from the beginning with my 8" SCT. Perhaps if I had attempted unguided exposures to start with, or with a longer fl SCT, I might not have had the initial results that I did.
Ultimately, we can only give recommendations based on our own experiences, and mine were positive when starting with an SCT. I later added a piggybacked refractor for wide field stuff.
Here is my first DSO, shot with my LX200 classic. A single 10 minute subframe through my MX7-C. I used the self guiding capabilities of my camera.
Is it great? Not really, but it is recognizable, and was my first time with the MX7-C. I also got much better, and have had some pretty good results, IMHO, for an SCT. You can see my images at my site. I also have yet to see any small refractor planetary images match those of SCT's.
Regards,
Gary
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Celestron 80ED
Losmandy G11
NexStar 80
Starlight Xpress SXV-H9
SXV guidehead, ToUcam 840
http://www.teamgs.org/astrophotography.htm
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Wmacky
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 583
Loc: Middleburg Fl US
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I'm new, but I'm in the position of having been in your shoes last month. I too want to do Planatary, AND DSO imaging, but I also required a great visual scope. I was also looking at that same C11. After much reading, and with the advice of the experts here, I came to the conclusion that you Can have your cake and eat it too. The answer is unfortunately this...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I decided that if I wanted to do everything, I would have to buy eveything. I went with a C11, and I have immediately begun the search for a nice decent 80ed scope to piggyback. It was soon apparent through comments that I would need a minumium Mount upgrade, so I went with the C11 CGE package. The bad news is that so far I have spent over $5000.00 with several more $$ to spend, and I haven't even had the scope outside yet to see the moon! I may have taken too big of a bite, but the equipment should be able to "Do it all"!
It would have been cheaper, and easier to start with the APO alone, but I wanted to be able to take breaks from imaging, and do some great visual observing going deep. The Apo was out for that task. So, the aswer was this.
Buy both, and the best mount you can afford to carry them. Since you have the EQ-6, I would get the Apo first knowing that you will be adding a Larger SCT, and Mount later for your other desires!
Edited by Wmacky (01/03/08 10:17 PM)
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russ_watters
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/24/04
Posts: 1293
Loc: Trappe, PA
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I love my Atlas 11. And yes, it is a little bit of a challenge even at f/3, but I've gotten some good results. I've had it for 18 months and the ED80 for 9. With the weather around here, I haven't done much since the spring, but here's one of the first autoguided images I took back in March. Since then, I've done more with the ED80, but only because there were a handful of larger objects I wanted to image (still, one clear, moonlit night in the summer, I shot several globulars - short exposures and bright objects, though).
Also, I even use a focal reducer witht the ED80 sometimes. You can't image M33 or the Veil without one (on a DSI II Pro) and I like the faster focal ratios anyway. Shooting at f/7.5 takes frickin forever and in the summer, the dark noise of the uncooled DSI is a real killer.
I might be inclined to try a C9.25, though. The dovetail flex issue of the C11 is at least as big a problem as the PE of the Atlas, and the 9.25 would help a lot with both.
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Equipment: Orion Atlas 11, ED80, DSI-C, DSI II Pro, Dell Inspiron Laptop.
www.russsscope.net
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russ_watters
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/24/04
Posts: 1293
Loc: Trappe, PA
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Quote:
Don't listen to Gary on this one. He hit his head or something.
I started with a 11" SCT and it was the worst mistake of my astrophotography career.
I guess you could say I startd my "astrophotography career" with an ETX-105. That was pretty rough. I consider my Atlas 11 a tough, but rewarding challenge.
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Equipment: Orion Atlas 11, ED80, DSI-C, DSI II Pro, Dell Inspiron Laptop.
www.russsscope.net
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astronomer
super member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 120
Loc: Cyprus
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Just want to thank all of you for giving me your advises. I appreciate it.
I have decided what I want. 
Thanx guys!
P.S. I will let you know what it is when I receive it!
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Cyprus Astronomical Society
www.CyprusAstronomy.com
Stop Destroying The Earth!
It's Where I Keep All My Stuff!!!
________________________________________
Skywatcher 200mm Newtonian
Skywatcher ED80 Pro
EQ6 Pro Skyscan
Vixen Porta Mount.
Canon 40D
Astronomik CLS
Astronomik UHC
Clip System Filters
|
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