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Talstarone
Vendor (Inner Planetary Products)
*****

Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 7907
Loc: Benson, North Carolina
12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed
      #2088725 - 01/01/08 09:49 PM

I have a Celestron CG-5 AS-GT GOTO Mount.And I see the small Celestron Power Tank is rated at 7 amp/hrs.What do most of you run,and is 7amp/hrs about the minimum to last all night?

--------------------
Todd C.

Celestron NexStar 4SE(102mm F/13)Maksutov-Cass

www.innerplanetaryproducts.com
Meteorites and More....
"Outer Space at Down to Earth Prices"





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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12948
Loc: Rockford Illinois
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: Talstarone]
      #2088791 - 01/01/08 10:19 PM

Don't do the Celestron tank...

You can get a good power cell from just about any auto parts store, or even your local walmart or home Depot for less, with more amp/hr rating...

For example, you can get the Husky (Home Depot) 17 amp/Hr tank for around $40.00...

--------------------
Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"

Rockford, Il.

NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!

Coming soon:


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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #2089065 - 01/02/08 01:30 AM

Keep looking, there's already a thread running on this subject with lots of answers. Don't waste your time with the 7.

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Spaz
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 758
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: cocobolo]
      #2089135 - 01/02/08 03:19 AM

I'm going to grossly oversimplify here...

Calculate the projected load you're likely to be drawing, then multiply that by the amount of time you expect to be drawing that load. Now double the result, because you will have underestimated. Everybody always underestimates their projected loads.

For this example's sake, let's say the figure you came up with was 30. Maybe 3 amps x 5 hours observing x 2, which is not unrealistic when you consider dew heaters and other accessories. So what capacity battery do you need? 30 Ah?

No. Because if you draw 30 Ah out of a 30 Ah battery, you've irreversibly damaged it. Oh, you'll still get some juice out of it for a while longer, but batteries aren't supposed to be deep discharged and won't react well. You'll find it just won't hold a charge for very long and become useless.

Ideally, you shouldn't discharge the battery by more than 20% of its capacity. Therefore in our example you'd need a 150 Ah battery to prevent discharging below 20%, quite a hefty weight to lug around with you.

If all you're powering is an ETX, without optional accessories, then 3 Amps average is likely quite an overestimate in most cases, and a 150 Ah battery is therefore overkill. Also, you can repeatedly discharge modern AGM-type cells to 50% and generally get away with it unscathed.

The revised example may then become 1 Amp avg x 5 hours x 2, a total of 10 Amps over a night's observing run. Discharging to 50% means you only need a 20 Ah battery, not too huge at all.

Another important factor is the discharge rate. A battery will last much longer if you suck amps out of it slowly. The faster you discharge it, the lower the capacity you'll get.

Look on the battery label, there'll be a "C" rating. That's the discharge rate at which the battery will supply the stated Ah capacity. If it says "150Ah, C10 @ 20 °C" then you're supposed to get 150Ah over 10 hours if the ambient temperature is around 20 °C. You'll get more amps if you discharge the battery at a slower rate, much less if you do so at a faster rate.

The temperature aspect is quite important too: battery lifetimes are prolonged in the cold, but their capacity diminishes very rapidly as the temperature drops. (In high temps, a battery will deliver amps above its rated capacity, but the heat ruins batteries, whereas cold generally won't.)

Sorry for the Battery 101 lecture, especially if you already know this stuff. But most people ruin good batteries very quickly because they're unaware of the damage they're doing by using one with insufficient capacity.

I say get the biggest battery still practical to haul around and you'll be fine. Just make sure you recharge it properly as soon as you can: batteries also don't like being left in a discharged state.


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DennisF
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/03/06
Posts: 1193
Loc: Northern IL
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: Talstarone]
      #2089155 - 01/02/08 04:11 AM Attachment (83 downloads)

Tal,

While some have had no problems with their Celestron/Orion Powertanks, the forums are rife with people that do. The chargers and charging circuit are particularly suspect. As many will recommend there are better alternatives. Jump start units are popular or you can obtain the parts to make up your own power supply as well. Even with just the mount as the load, a 7 a/h battery is woefully inadequate for an all-nighter.

If you're interested, I've included an attachment that I feel is a good primer on batteries which will get you started in the right direction. It should give you the information you need to figure out the answer that is best for you.

--------------------
10" XTi
C6 SE
C8 SE
C8 (late 90's?)
SV80ED
SV102ED
SV M1
Original AYO EzTouch mount
LM Teegul
Gone-ETX 125, C80, ED80SF, PortaMount


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Patrick
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 8190
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: Talstarone]
      #2091748 - 01/03/08 12:52 AM Attachment (20 downloads)

Todd,

I use a 33 amphour wheel chair battery to power my mount and dew heaters. Plenty of power and the battery is small enough that it's easy to carry around.

Patrick

--------------------

Celestron CPC 1100 XLT
10" f/6 Truss Tube Newtonian
Celestron C6S-GT SCT
AT66ED Refractor
Canon XSi; Meade DSI;SPC900-NC
Vixen GP2 Photo Guider Mount


My Astronomy Pages
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.


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Spaz
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 01/19/07
Posts: 758
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: Patrick]
      #2091776 - 01/03/08 01:17 AM

Quote:

Todd,

I use a 33 amphour wheel chair battery to power my mount and dew heaters. Plenty of power and the battery is small enough that it's easy to carry around.

Patrick




And it's purty!



Patrick, do you have to cover it at night, to protect your dark adaption?


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David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8797
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: DennisF]
      #2091862 - 01/03/08 03:47 AM

Quote:

Tal,

While some have had no problems with their Celestron/Orion Powertanks, the forums are rife with people that do. The chargers and charging circuit are particularly suspect. As many will recommend there are better alternatives. Jump start units are popular or you can obtain the parts to make up your own power supply as well. Even with just the mount as the load, a 7 a/h battery is woefully inadequate for an all-nighter.

If you're interested, I've included an attachment that I feel is a good primer on batteries which will get you started in the right direction. It should give you the information you need to figure out the answer that is best for you.




That is an excellent summary article (a version should be put up right here in the articles section of CN). However, I kind of wonder about the Xantrex XPower 300, as I think that, while it is an AGM battery, I think it is a "starter" battery and not a deep-cycle one. Mine works pretty well, but I have to keep in mind that in a year or two, I will have to change out the internal battery with a new one (and that isn't cheap). Clear skies to you.

--------------------
David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org


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OnlyChild
member


Reged: 10/30/07
Posts: 23
Loc: Southern California
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: Patrick]
      #2091898 - 01/03/08 04:43 AM

Patrick,

What do you use to get from the plus/minus terminals on the battery to a DC ciggy input for the dew heaters and scope? I saw a Werker Battery 12 Volt @ 55AH online and would like to power a laptop, scope and dew heater with it. Is that enough power?

Thanks,
Carlos

--------------------
Nexstar 11 GPS/Feather Touch
Celestron CPC 1100
NexStar 6SE
Baader Mark V
Dew Buster



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DennisF
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/03/06
Posts: 1193
Loc: Northern IL
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: OnlyChild]
      #2091905 - 01/03/08 04:55 AM

Don't mean to answer for Patrick but I thought you might be interested in this:

http://www.astro-nut.com/gel-cell.html

Gives you a pretty good idea of what you can do. I've made up one myself using a 50 a/h battery. Of course, you don't need to go this fancy but I find it nice to have multiple outlets. Anything you do should be fuse/circuit breaker protected to protect you and your equipment.

Don't know what the draw is for a laptop, but my setup give me 2-3 nights when camping, averaging 5 hrs./night for the scope and dew protection (6" SCT strip and 2 2" EP heaters). At worst this gives me around 50% discharge. Keep in mind I don't do winter camping.

--------------------
10" XTi
C6 SE
C8 SE
C8 (late 90's?)
SV80ED
SV102ED
SV M1
Original AYO EzTouch mount
LM Teegul
Gone-ETX 125, C80, ED80SF, PortaMount


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Patrick
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 8190
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: OnlyChild]
      #2092423 - 01/03/08 11:38 AM

Quote:

What do you use to get from the plus/minus terminals on the battery to a DC ciggy input for the dew heaters and scope?




Radio Shack makes a large alligator type clip setup with a female DC cigarette adapter on the end. I attach the clips to the battery and then plug into the female connector. I also have a 1 to 2 cigarette connector splitter so I attach more than one device to the battery.

Here is a picture of the clips attached to the battery, but you can't see the cigarette adapter.

Patrick

--------------------

Celestron CPC 1100 XLT
10" f/6 Truss Tube Newtonian
Celestron C6S-GT SCT
AT66ED Refractor
Canon XSi; Meade DSI;SPC900-NC
Vixen GP2 Photo Guider Mount


My Astronomy Pages
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.


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walt r
Post Laureate


Reged: 02/13/07
Posts: 3523
Loc: Doylestown, PA
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: Patrick]
      #2092542 - 01/03/08 12:23 PM

Here is how I put together a power pack. Links to the parts are in the thread.

--------------------
Walt

Obsession 18" f/4.45 #1370 AN/SC
MK67 Deluxe 6" f/12 Mak-Cass, Super Polaris GEM, JMI MicroMax DSC
DIY 60mm f/6 Achromat
Cookbook 245 CCD


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blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories


Reged: 07/20/07
Posts: 1803
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: walt r]
      #2094442 - 01/03/08 11:40 PM

I use a 115 amp hr Deep Cycle Trolling Motor battery from Wal-Mart about $70. I will run my imaging rig all night long, including a big 17" laptop, GM-11 mount and anything else I want to plug in to the 4 cigarette lighter plugs I put on it.
This way I can run two nights if needed and I never have to worry about power.
Total cost with the 4 plugs and a good charger for it, about $100.
Bueman

--------------------
14.5" Starmaster with ServoCat and Argo Navis
1966 Unitron 4" Model 152 EQ
AT 8" RC
TV NP101 f/5.4 APO Telvue .8 Focal Reducer
FLI ML8300 and CFW-2-7 filter wheel
FLI RGBL 2" filters Baader 2" Narrow Band Filters
SBig ST2000xm with CFW-9 filter wheel
Astrodon Gen2 filters RGBL
Baader HA,O-III, H-Beta, S-II Filters
ST80 Guide Scope Orion SSAG Guide Camera
Losmandy G-11 Gemini Auto-guided


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DennisF
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/03/06
Posts: 1193
Loc: Northern IL
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: blueman]
      #2094811 - 01/04/08 05:28 AM

Blueman,

How much does it weigh?

--------------------
10" XTi
C6 SE
C8 SE
C8 (late 90's?)
SV80ED
SV102ED
SV M1
Original AYO EzTouch mount
LM Teegul
Gone-ETX 125, C80, ED80SF, PortaMount


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Daniel
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 06/16/05
Posts: 917
Loc: Roscoe,IL
Re: 12volt DC Power Supply Amp/hrs Needed new [Re: DennisF]
      #2094924 - 01/04/08 08:12 AM

Easily 50-60 lbs, but they have built in handles and carry easy. Most of these have two positive and Negative posts on them.
I have 4 of them in my boat.

--------------------
Looking for a big ol Dobsonian..12-16"
ETX 70mm,F5
Bushnell 7-21x40 bino's
Barska 20x80mm Binos
Meade Video Eyepiece
Canon A-E1 SLR,Canon EOS ElanII






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