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mathteacher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/07
Posts: 2059
Loc: SF Bay Area
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After spending 2 hours under the skies, I could barely make out zeta UMi (mag 4.3) with my naked eye. With my 100mm, I could barely detect M51 (not the companion NGC galaxy), and the Messier galaxies in the Leo triplet.
Folks observing in the same conditions, what objects are the limits of what you can pull in (any aperture is fine, but please specify).
Thanks.
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Regards, Mr. Wang . . . . . . . My gallery . . . . . . . I'm a refractor guy!
CR 150-HD - The Hammer, Vixen ED100sf - The Skipper, Orion ST80 - The Pug, Orion 7x50 Scenix
Meade DSI Color, Vixen Porta Mount, Vixen Super Polaris, 2" pipe mount
Please join the International Dark Sky Association
Edited by mathteacher (01/02/08 02:50 PM)
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skypilgrim
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/25/06
Posts: 558
Loc: Under a cloud
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Hi MT,
By far, I do most of my observing in my backyard which is probably worse than Mag 4 most of the time. Under those conditions you've just got to add open clusters and double stars to your observing list... objects with concentrated points of light instead of objects where the light is diffused and lost in the light pollution.
I see you have a 100mm Vixen. Refractors are ideal for these types of objects. 
"Double Stars for Small Telescopes" by Sissy Haas is ideal for the casual Double Star observer and a good source for Open Clusters (as well as many other semi-easy objects) can be found here:
http://www.astronomical.org:80/portal/modules/wfsection/index.php?category=1
Hope this was of some use,
Sam 
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AL Messier certificate #2078
AL Double Star certificate #354
Area of interest: Cultural Astronomy
My Blog: http://fathersky.wordpress.com/
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mathteacher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/07
Posts: 2059
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Hello, Sam. I just built some light block panels for observing in the driveway, and boy, do they make a difference. I got great views of M36, M37, M38 (with NGC1907) last night; previously I could barely detect them. I like to push the limits of what I can do at home and figure out ways to beat LP. Clear skies.
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Regards, Mr. Wang . . . . . . . My gallery . . . . . . . I'm a refractor guy!
CR 150-HD - The Hammer, Vixen ED100sf - The Skipper, Orion ST80 - The Pug, Orion 7x50 Scenix
Meade DSI Color, Vixen Porta Mount, Vixen Super Polaris, 2" pipe mount
Please join the International Dark Sky Association
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
After spending 2 hours under the skies, I could barely make out zeta CMi (mag 4.3) with my naked eye. With my 100mm, I could barely detect M51 (not the companion NGC galaxy), and the Messier galaxies in the Leo triplet.
OK, I'm confused. The Yale Bright Star Catalog lists Zeta CMi at 5.1, which is a far cry from 4.3. Did you, perchance, mean Zeta Mon? If so, what time of night did you see it? Zeta Mon doesn't reach its highest until 2:30 a.m., and it's still quite low in mid-evening.
If you could see a mag 4.3 star 25 degrees above the horizon, you can probably see close to mag 5.0 at the zenith.
Likewise, M51 is just about at its lowest in the sky in mid-evening, and it doesn't reach its highest until several hours after dawn. If you wait until spring, you should be able to see M51 and its companion with ease.
Anyway, I predict that with some practice and persistence, you'll be able to see all the Messier objects from your location. And by the time you're done, most of them will seem quite bright and obvious.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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mathteacher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/07
Posts: 2059
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Tony, sorry for the confusion. I meant the little dipper, Ursa Minor. I could barely make out the stars in the handle. Thanks for your reply.
--------------------
Regards, Mr. Wang . . . . . . . My gallery . . . . . . . I'm a refractor guy!
CR 150-HD - The Hammer, Vixen ED100sf - The Skipper, Orion ST80 - The Pug, Orion 7x50 Scenix
Meade DSI Color, Vixen Porta Mount, Vixen Super Polaris, 2" pipe mount
Please join the International Dark Sky Association
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Tony, sorry for the confusion. I meant the little dipper, Ursa Minor. I could barely make out the stars in the handle.
Ah, that's a different matter. But again, the Little Dipper is near its lowest at this time of year. From my customary urban observing site, I can make out 6 stars in the Little Dipper fairly easily in late spring or summer, but I can't do it at this time of year.
Altitude above the horizon is overwhelmingly important when viewing in light-polluted surroundings.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Illinois
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 693
Loc: near Chicago, Illinois USA
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If you can see little dipper then you should able to see all Messier objects! I can't see little dipper in my backyard.......faintest I can spot in my backyard is NGC 7331! Bad light pollution! White zone in www.cleardarksky.com I don't know if you able to see a faint milky way in the summer....if you can then you are probably in orange zone in light pollution level!
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Astronomer since 1975!
Orion 80mm ED refractor and
iOptron CubePro mount
Meade 16" Lightbridge Dobsonian
Orion 10" SkyQuest Classic Dobsonian
Tele Vue Eyepieces
Canon EOS XS 1000D
Orion Planetary 5 mm and
Orion Expanse Wide-Field 6mm eyepiece
4.5" F5 Reflector since 1982!
Orion Narrowband and SkyGlow filters
Member of IDA, let's fight light pollution!
Old Edmund 6"F8...donated to cousins
Super Polaris C8...donated to Byron Observatory in Illinois
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mathteacher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/07
Posts: 2059
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Illinois, I'm in the white zone, too. I think I'm 8 on the Bortle scale. Definitely not even Red zone. I'm working with 100mm. I can see M81, M82, but I doubt I can pull in M74 at home. So you think I can do that with more aperture?
--------------------
Regards, Mr. Wang . . . . . . . My gallery . . . . . . . I'm a refractor guy!
CR 150-HD - The Hammer, Vixen ED100sf - The Skipper, Orion ST80 - The Pug, Orion 7x50 Scenix
Meade DSI Color, Vixen Porta Mount, Vixen Super Polaris, 2" pipe mount
Please join the International Dark Sky Association
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skypilgrim
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/25/06
Posts: 558
Loc: Under a cloud
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Hi MT,
Some say M74 is the toughest Messier to get. If you can pull that one in with 100mm in lots of light pollution then you have very good eyes.
Yes, more aperture would help but I still think you'd need a very good night to see from within the city.
Sam
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AL Messier certificate #2078
AL Double Star certificate #354
Area of interest: Cultural Astronomy
My Blog: http://fathersky.wordpress.com/
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stevecoe
"Astronomical Tourist"
Reged: 04/24/04
Posts: 2645
Loc: Arizona, USA
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Howdy all;
There is an Urban List on the SAC site.
www.saguaroastro.org
Look at the "Things to Observe" list of the left of the home page.
Hope that helps;
Steve Coe
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TeleVue 102 refractor on CGEM mount
10 inch f/4.7 Newtonian
Author "Deep Sky Observing" Springer-Verlag
Author "Nebulae and How to Observe Them" Springer
Canon Xt astrocamera with Hutech modification
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Illinois
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 693
Loc: near Chicago, Illinois USA
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Hi mathteacher,
Any deep sky object lower than around 30 degrees from horizon would be very diffcult to see in my backyard. I can spot M8 and M41 when its the highest and the night is clear with no moon!
M57 and M27 is no problem!
NGC 253 is bright galaxy, easy to find and just below Deneb Kaitos in Cetus but so far I can't find it in my backyard......its about -25 or -26 degrees and its too low in my backyard with many houses and trees!
Thanks to Steve Coe for his astronomy club website about deep sky objects information!
Lets all of us fight light pollution and bring our milky way back!
Clear skies!
--------------------
Astronomer since 1975!
Orion 80mm ED refractor and
iOptron CubePro mount
Meade 16" Lightbridge Dobsonian
Orion 10" SkyQuest Classic Dobsonian
Tele Vue Eyepieces
Canon EOS XS 1000D
Orion Planetary 5 mm and
Orion Expanse Wide-Field 6mm eyepiece
4.5" F5 Reflector since 1982!
Orion Narrowband and SkyGlow filters
Member of IDA, let's fight light pollution!
Old Edmund 6"F8...donated to cousins
Super Polaris C8...donated to Byron Observatory in Illinois
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