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Equipment Discussions >> Video and Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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Steve Fisher

Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Utah

Easy as 123
#2138734 - 01/22/08 06:42 PM

OK, I'm not an idiot but I've tried Astrophotography and digital imaging 3 times and the learning curve was to steep and by the time I got back to the scope I had forgotten everything I learned the last time out. Imaging always ruined a good night out under the stars for me.

Friends keep telling me "this is the ticket". When I look at all these posts they look like they are written in latin to me.

Is there a post or a thread that is as simple as 1,2,3? Do this, do this and get this?

Your help is appreciated.

Post Extras:

b1gred
Enginerd

Reged: 04/01/04

Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: Steve Fisher]
#2138738 - 01/22/08 06:44 PM

I'm assuming you're talking about getting into something like a Mallincam or I3?

Post Extras:

Steve Fisher

Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Utah

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: b1gred]
#2138744 - 01/22/08 06:45 PM

Yes sir, you assume correct.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Post Extras:

b1gred
Enginerd

Reged: 04/01/04

Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: Steve Fisher]
#2138782 - 01/22/08 06:58 PM

I'm not sure Electronic Assisted astronomy is EVER "easy as 123". You have to have the imaging device, a display, some way to focus and aim. The rewards are great, but it's not as simple as slamming in an EP and looking thru the scope...

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Paul Milligan
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: 54°12.0' N; 4°25' W

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: b1gred]
#2138838 - 01/22/08 07:20 PM

Steve

Compared to the traditional astrophotography video photography is far easier.

In brief a few more steps than 3 or 4, but a summary:-

1\Buy CCD astronomical integrating video camera (GSTAR-EX, Mallincam, Stellacam etc)
2\Place in telescope focuser
3\Connect to power supply
4\Connect to output device (monitor, MP4 recorder, laptop)
5\Focus image
6\Record video (if that is what you want to achieve)
7\You can then use software to stack the frames and create an image.
9\Alternatively you can use a screen capture piece of software to capture integrated frames.

The results of video imaging will never match results obtained by high resolution CCD or DSLR imaging.

However using an integrating sensitive video camera shows amazing detail on DSO's that is similar to having another 4 or 5 inches of aperture.

Hope this helps
Paul M..

Post Extras:

Steve Fisher

Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Utah

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: b1gred]
#2138846 - 01/22/08 07:25 PM

Randy:

Thanks again for your reply. I'm sorry if I made what you guys all do sound too simple. I meant no offence. What you do is really awesome.

I was and still am hoping to find a step by step process of how Electronic assisted astronomy should be done. In the meantime I'll just keep "slamming in those eyepieces".

Edited by Steve Fisher (01/22/08 07:34 PM)

Post Extras:

Steve Fisher

Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Utah

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: Steve Fisher]
#2138853 - 01/22/08 07:28 PM

Paul:

Thank you! So you still use software to display "stacked" images on the monitor, correct? It is not in "real time"?

Post Extras:

bseltzer
professor emeritus

Reged: 10/28/07

Loc: East S.F.Bay, CA

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: Steve Fisher]
#2138904 - 01/22/08 07:47 PM

Quote:

Paul:

Thank you! So you still use software to display "stacked" images on the monitor, correct? It is not in "real time"?

Steve,

You can do that, if you desire. However, as Paul indicated, the images obtained won't have the resolution of a dedicated CCD imaging device.

On the other hand, if you connect the Mallincam, Stellarcam, whatever, directly to a monitor as an output device, you will get as close to "real time" as the integration setting on the camera will allow. In this application, no computer or image processing software is required.

Regards,
Bert

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FLNightSky
professor emeritus

Reged: 03/13/06

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: bseltzer]
#2138922 - 01/22/08 07:52 PM

I think that is the biggest appeal to me... you can see more than you can with the EP, but you don't need the laptop/CCD/software combo out in the field. Just the camera and the monitor.

Post Extras:

Paul Milligan
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: 54°12.0' N; 4°25' W

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: Steve Fisher]
#2138968 - 01/22/08 08:09 PM Attachment (60 downloads)

Steve

No you don't require software to merely display the image (real time) to a screen. Its just a cable to the output device. However if you want to produce an image from the output then you do need software.

Here attached is a photo of a GSTAR-EX integrating video CCD camera attached to my Tak Epsilon which is outputting an directly to an MP4 recorder. I can then view the live realtime image while recording it. At a later date I can then use the captured video to produce a photo.

Hope this helps..
Paul M..

Post Extras:

Steve Fisher

Reged: 08/12/06

Loc: Utah

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: Paul Milligan]
#2139092 - 01/22/08 08:55 PM

Thanks you guys. That is what I'm hoping for. I don't anticipate trying to capture any images. Just to see more from home. Instant gratification?

It should be obvious that I not only don't know many answers but I don't even know the correct questions at this time.

One I might ask is, is there a waiting list for Mallincam's? With the huge intrest in assisted astronomy I would guess that there must be some wait.

Post Extras:

prestonrich
professor emeritus

Reged: 12/01/07

Loc: Washington DC Mayland suburbs

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: Steve Fisher]
#2140166 - 01/23/08 12:34 PM

A simple newbee question. Do you focus w/the Mallincam on the WATEC 35 monitor or by somehow using an EP?

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greg
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: Central Ca.

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: prestonrich]
#2140215 - 01/23/08 01:02 PM

You focus on stars that you see on the monitor. I get close and then fine focus on faint stars that appear as you come to focus and disappear when you are just out of focus. Also you can temporarily turn up the brightness on your monitor to help find stars if you don't see any near the object you are viewing.
Another trick is to Put the camera SENS at 64X which is about one second integration, and then activate the zoom feature and zoom in on a star, this bloats the star a little bit and allows you to see the star get tighter and tighter as you near the best possible focus. I use the zoom method if I want the best possible focus.

Greg

Edited by greg (01/23/08 01:11 PM)

Post Extras:

dvb
different Syndrome.

Reged: 06/18/05

Loc: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: greg]
#2140253 - 01/23/08 01:15 PM

Thanks for asking the question, Steve.
I've also found some useful tips on the "Learning Curve" thread.

Before the useful steps indicated above is "finding the object"

I'm hoping to receive my Mallincam in the next month, and to use it on my SN8 and GoTo mount.

Sometimes my GoTos on are on, sometimes they aren't (I can only use a one-star alignment in my skinny view of the sky.)
I understand the Mallincam view is about the same as an 8mm Plossl.

I'm expecting I'll have to use a wider-field, lower power eyepiece to be sure I've got the object centered, then swap in the Mallincam.

Is that a likely workflow?

Edited by dvb (01/23/08 01:45 PM)

Post Extras:

rshassell
member

Reged: 11/28/07

Loc: Colorado, USA

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: dvb]
#2140275 - 01/23/08 01:27 PM

You'll probably have to refocus when you swap out the low-power EP for the MC. Depending on what's in the FOV, that may not be easy to do. You may have to find a nearby brighter star to focus the MC, and then find your way back to the original target.

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Chris Schroeder
Postmaster

Reged: 12/11/04

Loc: N.E. WI Sky Glow

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: rshassell]
#2140310 - 01/23/08 01:45 PM

What about using a Hartman mask with the MCHP?

Post Extras:

dvb
different Syndrome.

Reged: 06/18/05

Loc: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: rshassell]
#2140314 - 01/23/08 01:48 PM

Hmmm. That can be frustrating -- recalling some astrophotography experiences, of focusing on a bright star, then using an inexact GoTo to get back to my object, and then framing the object.

What kind of finderscope is easiest to use to mimic the image in the the Mallincam -- Correct image, or inverted/reversed image?

Post Extras:

greg
scholastic sledgehammer

Reged: 01/25/05

Loc: Central Ca.

Re: Easy as 123 new

[Re: dvb]
#2140369 - 01/23/08 02:15 PM

I always have to remove the MallinCam and use an eyepiece to center the object. I use a 2" 26mm 70* FOV illuminated cross hair eyepiece now in my 102mm F/5 finderscope, but the stars are not sharp to the edge, so some times it's hard to tell a star on the edge from a faint fuzzy object (in the finderscope). Also, I always have to refocus, which is a a pain....

I'm thinking about getting a Meade 26mm 1.25 illuminated Plossl with an 1" barrel extention and a parfocal ring. Less FOV but tighter stars. Just get the best focus on an object with the MallinCam and tighten the focuser lock screw, stick in the 26mm and adjust the parfocal ring to match it. The rest of the night the only time you would have to mess with the focus is if you changed focal reducers.

Good idea...Bad idea...???

Greg

Post Extras:

rshassell
member

Reged: 11/28/07

Loc: Colorado, USA

Re: Easy as 123 [Re: greg]
#2140494 - 01/23/08 03:20 PM

That sounds like it would work. Some people use a flip mirror, in which the EP and camera are parfocal, but that won't work for everyone. I depend on the Precise GOTO feature on my N11GPS if my initial alignment doesn't center the DSO for some reason.

Regarding the image orientation, the MallinCam has menu settings to flip the image in both axes, so you can achieve a true-orientation image no matter the optical path of your setup.

Regarding a Hartman mask, I think that would still require a reasonably bright star somewhere in the FOV.

Post Extras:

dvb
different Syndrome.

Reged: 06/18/05

Loc: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Easy as 123 [Re: rshassell]
#2140521 - 01/23/08 03:35 PM

I'll probably use the Rigel illuminated cross-hair eyepiece that came with my Stellarvue F50.

Very cool that MallinCam allows a Correct-image orientation to be maintained.

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