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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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PGW Steve
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 632
Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performance
      #2214328 - 02/23/08 08:52 PM Attachment (129 downloads)

For the lunar eclipse I had the pleasure of spending 5 hours outside in -26C weather with a windchill bumping it to -41C, colder than a _______. I had my FSQ mounted on the 1200GTO and given their pedigrees, no issues at all.

From previous experience knew that the TC80N3 does not like cold weather at all. The display packs it in and you can't make setting changes or see the time counting down. I prempted issues with this unit by putting a Kendrick LX200 control pad heater onto the timer with a couple supplied rubber bands. I've also noted that a 1.25" EP heater attached the same way is an excellent fit as well. The heater did its job and I could change the settings on the timer with no lag in the numbers, it worked like it was supposed to.

I had my 40D mounted with a couple fresh batteries in a battery grip. These packed it in within about a half hour. Thankfully I had a Hutech 12 volt kit with me and installed it. The only thing I would recommend is that you install this before you get into the cold as you need to bend the cord around a corner so that you can close the battery door, when the cord is more like a stick, it is hard to bend. Running off the 12V power tank is nice as you don't have to worry about running out of juice at all.

I had the camera set to take an exposure every 2 minutes and after a little while I changed it to take one every minute. In all I snapped 170 picures that evening, so it was in excess of three hours in extreme conditions that the 40D stretched its legs.

The small LCD on the top of the 40D did get a bit slow, you couldn't start spinning the wheel to change things quickly, you had to let the display catch up with about a 1-2 second lag. I found it much easier to look in the viewfinder and use the numbers at the bottom of the display to check ISO and exposure times rather than the LCD as it reacted in time with the corrections made.

When I was done shooting I wrapped the camera in a towel and placed it in a plastic Rubbermaid container. This allowed it to warm up slowly and prevent a layer of dew/frost from forming when it was brought inside.

Considering it would take a very unique astronomical event to get me out in conditions that harsh again, I'm happy to have proven that my gear, and myself stood up to some of the worst that Mother f___r umm I mean Nature could dish out.

Thank you Canon.

-Don't be scared to use your 40D in -25C conditions
-Do use a 12V or 120V conversion, batteries will die.
-Do use your TC80N3 but it MUST be heated with a Kendrick pad or..?
-Do wrap your gear up in a towel and put it into a container to minimize thermal shock and formation of dew and frost when you bring it inside.

Photo credit to Jennifer West, 20Da hand held!

--------------------
A-P 1200GTO
14" LX200R OTA
FSQ106ED Tak .75 reducer +1.6 extender
AT 8" F4. astrograph
WO ZenithStar 66 Triplet ED APO
EQ 6 PRO
Astrotrac TT320, Manfrotto 475&488
DSI PRO II W/filters, Orion SSAG
Hutech 40D and Unmodded EOS 5D MkII
16-35mm f2.8L II, 24-70mm f2.8L,70-200mm f2.8L IS 300mmf4.L, 400mmf5.6L
31T5,22T4,13E,9T6,8E,5T6,3.5T6
5’X8’ Wells Cargo trailer to haul it in!!!


Edited by PGW Steve (02/23/08 08:54 PM)


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rockace521
sage


Reged: 09/21/06
Posts: 298
Loc: Waco, TX
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performance new [Re: PGW Steve]
      #2214340 - 02/23/08 08:59 PM

Super write-up, thanks. Nice picture, too! Looks like you are in Antarctica on an expedition.

It doesn't get QUITE that cold here, but it'd good to know the limits can be pushed if necessary.

--------------------
Joel

8" Celestron SCT
SV80S
Atlas EQ-G
40D/Modded 20D/DSI Pro
no pictures to speak of...


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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
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Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12951
Loc: Rockford Illinois
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: rockace521]
      #2214660 - 02/23/08 11:22 PM

Whats that curved structure in the center?

--------------------
Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"

Rockford, Il.

NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!

Coming soon:


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hiro
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/17/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Tokyo
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: PGW Steve]
      #2214680 - 02/23/08 11:29 PM

Thanks,

I've experienced -18C, but not lower than -20C ever. I could learn something. Towel and plastic container looks nice to keep camera not to get too cold.

By the way, the pic shows as if your hand is naked. It is not safe if you touch cold metal with your naked fingers. I recommend you to wear powderfree surgical gloves. They are thin and not enough to protect your hands from coldness, but you can operate camera and laptop touch panel with them on safely for a while. I wear loose and thick down mittens over the thin gloves.

--------------------
hiro

Canon EOS 5Dmk2-sp2 by Seo san
Takahashi FSQ-106ED with reducer, extender, and "hiro design" off axis guider
Lenses by Nikon, Leica, and Zeiss
Takahashi EM-200 temma 2 jr / Kenko Skymemo-R

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hiroc/


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dshankar
member


Reged: 02/23/08
Posts: 27
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: hiro]
      #2214736 - 02/24/08 12:02 AM

I was out at the same time with my 40D. I had no issues with a single fully charged battery (I don't have a battery pack for the 40 yet). I shot for about 2 - 2.5 hours with mostly 10-25 minute exposures and several sub-30 second exposures. I had no heater pads and no dew/frost formed.

For my first time shooting in sub-zero with the 40D, I'm surprised that no problems occurred! It was about -6 degrees (without windchill).

Perhaps I just got lucky ?


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dshankar
member


Reged: 02/23/08
Posts: 27
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: dshankar]
      #2214744 - 02/24/08 12:04 AM

A quick note on the issues you had with the remote, the LCD and the wheel: I was shooting with a USB attachment to my Macbook Pro and essentially shooting 'remotely.' It's much easier to shoot by typing in ISO, Av/Tv, custom funcs, etc. than to fiddle with a little knob!

Or is there a good reason to buy the remote over tethering the camera to a remote computer?


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PGW Steve
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 632
Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: dshankar]
      #2214823 - 02/24/08 01:16 AM

Neo, that is part of the Oodeena. I think there are four of those things at the compass points, and a large basin in the middle. It is an ancient Ojibway Indian spiritual area in the center of Winnipeg.

Hiro, Excellent info on the surgical gloves. I have to admit living in this climate you do get used to a certain amount of 'cold'. I had no problems with tweaking focus, or pushing buttons on the camera. When I was packing up I did make the mistake of grabbing my WO66 bare handed and the aluminum tube sucked all the heat out of my hand, it felt like a burn. I'm going to try the gloves tomorrow for sure!!

dshankar, welcome to the forum!! I'd love to see some of your shots!! I'm curious how the 40 handles 10-25 minutes, what kind of noise reduction protocols are you using?

There is a huge difference between -6C and -26C, I don't know what order of magnitude but it is quite a bit.

I'll take the TC80N3 over a laptop any day!! Way less wires, way less $$ set up in the field, and the cold will eat the batteries AND the laptop. Trying to heat a laptop vs. the timer would be futile at best.

--------------------
A-P 1200GTO
14" LX200R OTA
FSQ106ED Tak .75 reducer +1.6 extender
AT 8" F4. astrograph
WO ZenithStar 66 Triplet ED APO
EQ 6 PRO
Astrotrac TT320, Manfrotto 475&488
DSI PRO II W/filters, Orion SSAG
Hutech 40D and Unmodded EOS 5D MkII
16-35mm f2.8L II, 24-70mm f2.8L,70-200mm f2.8L IS 300mmf4.L, 400mmf5.6L
31T5,22T4,13E,9T6,8E,5T6,3.5T6
5’X8’ Wells Cargo trailer to haul it in!!!


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ericjacob613
Photon Hog
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Reged: 05/25/07
Posts: 3794
Loc: Santa Barbara CA
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: PGW Steve]
      #2214885 - 02/24/08 02:51 AM

I use Dew-Not strips on my refractor. I tuck my TC80N3 under one of them to keep it warm. But it doesn't get nearly as cold here as you guys are describing.

--------------------
Y'all look at my flikr stuff:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42129623@N04/

Canon XTI with 80,000 clicks on it, cheap Asian glass.


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thelittleman
Vendor (Peter's Actions)
*****

Reged: 05/21/05
Posts: 4079
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: ericjacob613]
      #2215007 - 02/24/08 06:35 AM

Beautiful image! I wish we had that much snow here

--------------------
Clear Skies,
Peter

Photoshop Tutorials and Actions! New actions now added

Preprocessing in Iris Tutorial

http://peter-morris.magix.net/


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skyguy1
Amongst the Stars
*****

Reged: 03/23/04
Posts: 75
Loc: Yarker, Ontario, Canada
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: thelittleman]
      #2215066 - 02/24/08 08:08 AM

PGW Steve,

Thanks for the great information. I've been in limbo as to whether to use a timer for both my 20D and my 40D. The laptop solution just seems awkward with all the wires and cold weather issues. The laptop also needs to be kept from the cold which would mean I'd have to ante up for more heaters/batteries etc. Put that together with my limited computer skills and it seems like I'm stacking the deck against myself.

Quick question:
Where did you get your timer? I've been looking for one down my way but they run close to $200+ and I think that's a bit much. B&H Photo out of New York seems like the best bet but the bottom line is still more than $150+taxes once it's shipped. I see that there are some very inexpensive copies coming out of Hong Kong but I'm concerned they might have issues.

Any thoughts on that?

Cheers!

--------------------
"We are made of Star Stuff"
Carl Sagan


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weatherandsky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/27/06
Posts: 1899
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: skyguy1]
      #2215093 - 02/24/08 08:50 AM

Great report! Lots of good cold weather tips. I'm definately going to use the surgical gloves tip (thanks Hiro). It really really hurts to touch metal in very cold conditions (below -12). The stinging pain is instantaneous.

If it is -18C I use the TC80N3 and shoot widefield, but around -15C or more I will use my laptop and autoguide... I put the laptop in a large tupperware storage box lined with styrofoam then I cover it with a fleece blanket and throw in a couple of hot packs. The only problem that I have had with this method/temperature is my wireless network card really slows down and it becomes extremely slow transfering the images to my desktop inside.

Oh ya... when I bring the 40D inside I put it in one of those cooler bags. Hopefully that does the trick. For Battery power I use the AC kit otherwise the image session with the little battery would only last 30min max.

I can't wait for spring! It's easy to take the mild temps through the rest of the year for granted.

BTW this is the tupperware container that I am talking about... only thing is that I have since lined it and have a blanket over it for keeping the heat it.
http://www.weatherandsky.com/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=1072&g2_enterAlbum=0

--------------------
Kerry
* Weather and Sky Photography *

QHY-8, Canon 40D unmodded, Meade DSI-C
Meade 12" LightBridge
Astro-Tech 8in RC
Celestron C6-SCT
Sky-Watcher Equinox 80mm APO
Omcon 4.5" Newt
Celestron Skymaster 15x70
Canon 50 f1.8, 100 f2.8Macro, 100-400 f4.5-5.6L, Sigma 17-70, 18-50, 28-300
CGE, CG-5 GT


Edited by weatherandsky (02/24/08 08:59 AM)


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waassaabee
Post Laureate
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Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 3053
Loc: Central California Coast
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: weatherandsky]
      #2215101 - 02/24/08 08:57 AM

I've seen them (TC-80N3) on AstroMart as well. Sometimes pretty good deals..

--------------------
Gary

34N 120W

-My kingdom for blue squares!-

WO Megrez 90FD/TV 0.8x FR/FF
AT8RC
mini Borg 50/Q-Guide/PHD
CGEM & CG5ASGT
Canon 350D Hap Griffin Baader mod

My Friend Flickr


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Dave M
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Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 5037
Loc: N.E Ohio
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: PGW Steve]
      #2215136 - 02/24/08 09:20 AM

That made me feel like i was shooting in the land of paradise
at 4°F..

--------------------
Dave
Meade 16" F4.5 EQ Starfinder
Meade 10" SCT / Losmandy G11
Tak FSQ106ED
Canon 20D
SBig ST-4
http://www.spacew.com/gallery/image006006.html
Ps 19:1 The Heavens Declare the Glory of GOD.




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dshankar
member


Reged: 02/23/08
Posts: 27
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: Dave M]
      #2215328 - 02/24/08 11:16 AM

To those that mentioned touching the metal parts of tripods etc. - I feel your pain! When I shot on Wednesday, the gloves were actually colder than putting my hands in my jacket pockets (odd, yes?). So I shot for 3 hours without gloves...no frostbite (odd..)

I did the same and touched my tripod while packing up and yikes! That was the one instance where my hands actually felt cold/burned!

Thanks for the tupperware/surgical gloves/Dew not strips! I know my fisheye got a little condensation when I brought it in...

@PGW Steve: Since this was my first time, I just used 100 ISO to keep the noise down. When I get some time, I'll just use some filters in Photoshop to remove some of the remaining noise.
Next time, I'll use dark flats etc.

Surprisingly, the single battery for the 40D and the single battery for my Macbook Pro lasted just to the end of the shoot (2.5 hours). No heat pads or anything!

Some of my best pics of the night are uploaded on flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24079341@N02/. I'll have to put them through Photoshop one more time though..
What do you guys think?


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Mike Clemens
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Reged: 11/26/05
Posts: 4689
Loc: Wasilla, Alaska 61N
Re: Canon 40D and TC80N3 in extreme cold performan new [Re: dshankar]
      #2215803 - 02/24/08 03:28 PM

Great stuff, thanks. I use the Canon ACK-E2 AC adapter for EOS 10D-40D, sounds like the same deal as the Hutech i guess except it runs off 120V. Yes the remote controler is helpless!

One thing I want to do is put up a cable holder in the observatory so I can hang all my cables completely vertical, so when they freeze they are at least frozen into straight lines instead of little springy coils. (I know, doesn't apply much to portable setups.)

Clear WARM steady skies to you!


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