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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Beginning Imaging

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Petewp
super member


Reged: 12/04/06
Posts: 185
Loc: Connecticut - central western
A real newbie question....
      #2323760 - 04/13/08 10:18 AM



Ive got two qiestions. Ive been in astronomy a long time but strictly as a visual observer as opposed to imager or photographer. BUT, i'd like to give the web cam thing a go.
Here are my questions...

1. In this day and age can electronic imaging OUTDO visual observing on planetary objects? Ive seen some electronic views of the planets that look astoundingly close or beyond.

2. OK - I dont know SQUAT about webcam imaging. Which webcam is best? I have a digital rebel - 6.3mega pixels.
How does this compare? I know the DSLR has the mirror slap issues. But how can those horrible grainy webcam images make good astro imagers.

I need a real beginner walk thru here - are there any decent links or advice here. Thanks everybody in advance!!

Oh the scope is an 8" F/9 planetary reflector. In the next two months Ill be getting an ETX125.

Pete in Connecticut

--------------------
SEEKING LUNAR/PLANETARY NEW ENGLAND OBSERVING NIGHT - all welcome. Contact me at tidalid@aol.com

8" F/9 Parks Reflector
70mm TeleVue Ranger

Previous owner of Parks 10"F/5,


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Al Canarelli
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/06/07
Posts: 1564
Re: A real newbie question.... new [Re: Petewp]
      #2323949 - 04/13/08 11:50 AM

I'm not one to give advice on digital photography, as I am currently "climbing the learning curve" myself, and from my point of view I don't see any indication of a curve. It looks to me as though it goes straight up. However, I have played with film photography for years and there are many parallels to digital photography.

First, I need to tell you to get yourself a really good book, and here is the perfect one... www.astropix.com

*Can electronic imaging outdo visual observing? Yes, on a routine basis. Electronic devices, such as your digital Rebel, have the ability to absorb and record photons...an ability which your eyes do not have.

*I don't know much about webcams either, except that they are not nearly as light sensitive as your Digital Rebel.

Get the book, Pete! It will be the best $39 you ever spent. It will absolutely give you a "walk thru" as you put it. You will learn all there is to know about the camera, accessories, any other form of hardware, software and much more. Btw, the book is on CD disk and can be run by your computer.


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DonR
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/15/06
Posts: 635
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: A real newbie question.... new [Re: Petewp]
      #2323983 - 04/13/08 12:11 PM

Hi Pete,

I will take a shot at this and others will probably add their opinions. If you are an experienced visual observer you know that most of the time planetary observing is a matter of waiting for brief moments of clarity. With experience you catch these glimpses and your mind composes them into an image that represents the best of those moments of clarity, and can even call upon past experiences to help form a sharp image. That's sort of like what happens with webcam planetary imaging. A good, sensitive webcam can acquire 30 or more images of Jupiter, for example, every second and save them as a video file. Typically at least 90% of these individual frames will be blurred, but among them may be a handful of clear frames that you can extract and stack together to produce a sharp composite.

An experienced visualy observer can probably see at least as much detail on the major planets as can be captured by amateur astrophotographers, so I wouldn't say that electronic imaging can outdo visual, but it has other advantages, like the ability to print and share what you see, and with a good composite image and digital enhancement you can "zoom in" to create an image scale that's hard to duplicate with visual observing.

The Philips SPC 900NC webcam seems to be the favorite now for planetary astrophotography, due to it's very good low-light sensitivity and the relative ease of modifying it for astrophotography. I read this morning in another thread here on CN that Philips may have discontinued it - hopefully if this is true they (or some other manufacturer) will come out with another model just as good for our purposes.

Your Digital Rebel has some limitations compared to webcams that will make it less useful. First, the pixel resolution is lower than that of the SPC 900NC. Even though it's only 640x480 pixels, the SPC 900NC has smaller pixels than the Digital Rebel, which means you get more pixels across the disk of planetary objects, thus higher resolution.

Also, the mechanical shutter of DSLR's is a hindrance for planetary imaging. There's no way you can get 30 frames per second with your Digital Rebel, and unfortunately the shutter is the weakest part of most DSLR's. If you were to take 1,000 frames per night for a month or two with your Digital Rebel you would probably need a new shutter.

Cheers,

--------------------
Don
----------
Atlas EQ-G
Orion 8" f/4.9 newtonian
Orion 127mm Mak-Cass
Orion Skyview Pro mount
Orion 80mm guide scope
Canon Digital Rebel XT
Meade DSI
Philips SPC 900 NC webcam


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Charlie HeinModerator
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6579
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
Re: A real newbie question.... new [Re: DonR]
      #2325226 - 04/13/08 11:17 PM

Here are some links that might prove to be interesting...

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=141

http://www.djcash.demon.co.uk/astro/webcam/HowItsDone.htm

http://www.usno.navy.mil/pao/QuickCamAstro.shtml

http://www.astro.shoregalaxy.com/webcam_astro.htm

http://www.noao.edu/outreach/kpvc/imaging-workshop/essential-software.html

http://www.robertreeves.com/webcam.htm

Charlie

--------------------

Weston CSC:


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mischief
member


Reged: 04/26/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Northern California
Re: A real newbie question.... new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #2709189 - 10/20/08 05:17 PM

I've been reading a couple of books on astrophotography and types of cameras; "StarWare" by Philip Harrington, and "Digital Astrophotography" by Stefan Seip. Both list several types of webcam. The Philips TouCam is supposed to be the best (most models, I think). They have the CCD chip instead of CMOS. However, the Celestron NexImage is supposed to be very similar to the TouCam; it has the CCD chip. Incidentally, I would recommend the book by Seip. He covers all types of cameras that can be used for astrophotography, even consumer digital cameras plus webcams, DSLR and dedicated CCD cameras. It is written in an easy to understand way and he also has step by step instructions for using the TouCam (or NexImage). You can get either book at Amazon.

Dorothy

Orion StarBlast
Orion ST80
Orion Mak90
Vixen 110VMC
Orion VersaGo alt/az mount
Also Vixen SkyPod but I don't use it because it is frustrating
Canon 10x30 IS binoculars


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