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matt
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What if Venus had a moon?
      #23337 - 11/26/03 03:41 AM

This is not a question, and there is no graphics art in it, but it's more the result of the musings I have while I drive to the office in the morning:question:, or look through a telescope. :o

I hope some will find it dream provoking, if not thought provoking, and perhaps will give some ideas to you astro-artists.

Often it is wondered what life would be on earth without the moon. Or farther away from the sun. Or from another viewpoint in the Milky Way.

Has anyone wondered why Earth alone in the Inner Solar System has a large satellite? Mars has Phobos and Deimos but hey are "just" asteroids.
One could wonder, when for millenia Astronomers and theologians alike have wondered at the perfect roundness of the Moon, and devised from it conceptions of the world with the "upper" world being perfect and the "lower" world (Earth) bein imperfect. If Earth had been orbited by a low flying potato shaped body, things would have been quite different.

If Venus had a moon, we should suppose the system would look a lot like the Earth - Moon system : so close to the sun, it would be unlikely to have a moon forming far from the planet like in the outer solar system. (The Lagrange point where Earth's and the Sun's gravity balance each other is 1000000 km away from Earth ; for Venus it is 400000 km). We should expect it to be a little closer to the home planet - let's say 200000 km.
That would mean that at greatest elongation, Cupid would be 16 arc-minutes from Venus, or half the Moon's diameter as seen from Earth; probably good enough to see with the naked eye. The pair would be a blazing sight: a little like a close conjunction of Mercury and Venus.

In a small telescope, things would get quite exciting. The pair would be seen as a pair of cescents and the danse would certainly be an endless pleasure for celestial mechanists and casual observers alike. When Cupid would be between Venus and the Sun (being in the crescent phases as seen from Venus), Venusshine might be seen on Cupid's night side. It would be a test of an Earthbound observer to notice Venusshine on Cupid, lost in Earth's twilight and in the glare of Venus.

Mutual events of Cupid and Venus would also offer a spectacular signt. With Venus's axis being straighter than Earth's and Cupid closer to its home planet, they would be more frequent. Eclipses of Cupid would combine the effect of Lunar eclipses from Earth with the sideway view: we would see a crescent being obscured and not a disk. The colors on Cupido would provide an insight on Venus's athmosphere. And when Cupid creates an eclipse of the Sun on Venus, an Earth observer would see an elongated shadow creeping on the side of a crescent. Before telescope times, observers might have seen a diminishing of Venus's brightness, like when witnessing Galilean Satellites mutual events with a backyard telescope.

What observing Cupid with a large backyard telescope would reveal is a trick question. Would its surface markings be with low contrast, like on mercury, making them impossible to view from an earth-based telescope? Or would surface features like the lunar maria be visible as subtle markings, like Mars seen from Earth? In this case Cupido would be the only satellite with the moon to reaveal surface markings from Earth. In all likelyhood, Cupid would like the Moon always show the same face to Venus, but Earthlings would be able to see its hidden face. Would Cupid be a dead world like the Moon? Being small like the moon, but close to the Sun, Cupid would be scorching hot but dead (just like Mercury). If Cupid had been closer to Venus, maybe it would endure the same kind of tidal heating as Io. Maybe it could have had volcanoes. They would probably not be visible from earth, but perhaps their plumes would tell them away.

Scientific implications of such a state probably would have saved Giordano Bruno's life. Humans would more likely have admitted earlier that their planet was one in many, and thus not the centre of the world, in a Solar system with an Earthly twin. Eclipses of the sun and moon would have been understood earlier. Calendars would have been more sophisticated. If the orbital period of Cupid's orbit was in some kind of "resonance" with the Earth Year, it would allow for better calendars than those based on phases of the Moon. Copernicus and Galileo would have needed to find another scientific revolution to start. Galileo would not be remembered more than Asaph Hall (quizz: who is Hall? He discovered Phobos and Deimos, the satellites of Mars). Nasa would be less excited about the outer Solar System's satellites, with one to study firsthand, and one that could serve as a springboard to such a strange planet as Venus.

--------------------
Matt
CI700 mount with various scopes on top.


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Re: What if Venus had a moon? new [Re: matt]
      #23554 - 11/27/03 06:38 AM

Matt, do you have a long drive to work?!

That did get me thinking about the moon. If it suddenly and eternally disappeared from view I would miss it. Not even thinking about the scientific implications (gravitational fields, tides etc), I would just miss it as a visual entity I can stand and gaze at.

The way it peers over us like an omnipotent lunar god; the way it illuminates droplets of dew and frames spider's webs in light, the way it decks the earth in a liquid pearl hue. It's beautiful.

I'm always reminded of an etching by William Blake (my favourite writer). It was a simple drawing of two stick men on earth, pointing an extremely tall ladder towards the moon exclaiming: "I want. I want!" For me, that says it all.

Jason


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Re: What if Venus had a moon? new [Re: ]
      #23558 - 11/27/03 08:11 AM

I don't have a long drive, then again, I had a few trips to think about it. Until one day I thought I should write an essay about it.
In the 80's there was a department in Astronomy Magazine called 'Forum'. It was part journalism, part essays, part personnal stories, part science. It's the most enjoyable reading I've ever had. When I was a kid I always dreamed of having my thoughts printed in that section. But it does not exist anymore.


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Re: What if Venus had a moon? new [Re: Anonymous]
      #23570 - 11/27/03 10:56 AM

I wonder if the absence of our moon would have had an affect on the course of evolution. Without moonlight would there be as many nocturnal animals? I suppose starlight is enough when the moon is not around, but what would wolves and coyotes howl at? Perhaps even human eyes would be able to open wider...

I guess in the polar regions of 6 months of light and 6 months of darkness, life continues pretty normally. I don't know anything to specific about the animals that reside there though.

Also about the calendar: Since weeks are determined by the tides people on a plant with two moons might have different types of weeks throughout a month... The work schdule would evolve into a crazy amalgimation... unless of course that mess was enough to convince them to make a boring standard system.

Can't wait until kids will be learning extraterrestrial history in school:)


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Re: What if Venus had a moon? new [Re: ]
      #23663 - 11/27/03 05:01 PM Attachment (131 downloads)

Here's a pic from the Mars Global Surveyor of Earth and it's moon.

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Re: What if Venus had a moon? new [Re: ]
      #24145 - 11/29/03 07:26 PM

i love that pic. imagine living on mars, talking about earth with another observer sayin, "well, a 4" scope will show you australia, but you'd need at least an 8" to start to see the japan." oh, and the clouds would still get in the way.
those martians aren't seeing any details of the NE US, tonight :flame:

best,
Chris

btw, would be pretty sweet to be a "couple" million miles closer to jupiter and saturn, too :D

Edited by cmb1177 (11/29/03 07:28 PM)


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matt
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Re: What if Venus had a moon? new [Re: ]
      #24240 - 11/30/03 04:12 AM

Nice posting that pic Squeak. I guess it's what got me going in the first place.

I think Luna also had an important part in locking the axial tilt of Earth, thereby stabilizing climate evolution.

--------------------
Matt
CI700 mount with various scopes on top.


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Re: What if Venus had a moon? new [Re: matt]
      #30673 - 12/19/03 01:37 AM

It does. Mars with no major satelites has an axis that tilts from near vertical to ~50*. It's also responsible for lengthening our day from an original duration of 4-6 hours. Eventually the same tidal forces that have slowed our rotation to 24hrs/day will tidally lock us to the Moon, with a day 30(1) times as long as our current one, just as the Moon was locked bns of years ago. If we don't get incinerated by the sun red gianting first, I don't know the timescale for the tidal effects.

(1) longer actaully since tidal forces are boosting the moon into a higher orbit, again I'm not sure how rapidly they're acting now. The ammount of time needed to boost the Moon from geosyncronous (lower and tidal forces would deorbit it) is shorter than the lifetime of the Earth, which combined with several other factors, is why the Big Smash (collision between early Earth and a Mars sized body) is the dominant theory on the moons origin. The moon formed from ejecta that acreated in orbit.


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