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Anonymous
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My scope is "running" away! Help!!!
      #235955 - 10/30/04 01:58 AM Attachment (15 downloads)

Maybe somebody can help me out. I have a 4.5" newtonian with a equtorial mount. What happens is that when I finally get on an object and get focused, the thing is gone!! I can have something in the center of the eyepiece and within 10 seconds, it is out of sight!! I realize stars are actually moving, but that fast??? I've tried to tighten every thing on my tripod and mount down but it doesn't help. It is always a real steady smooth movement and always in the same direction. Can someone give me some advice???? Also, is there any way to sturdy things up? I can't even touch the focuser w/o the image jumping all over the place!!

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Anonymous
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Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #235958 - 10/30/04 02:07 AM

Don't tell me you got this off eBay.

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Anonymous
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Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #235961 - 10/30/04 02:11 AM

Why of course I did! Where else would I find such a wonderful piece of JUNK!!!!

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Anonymous
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Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #235962 - 10/30/04 02:13 AM

Luckily I only paid $99.95 w/ shipping for it. Now I just need some real eyepieces and a good collimnation(sp??). Hopefully I can make it work cause my wife won't let me spend more for a better one!

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Anonymous
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Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #235972 - 10/30/04 02:36 AM

Ah I guessed right

I am not sure of the optical quality, but the reason why it shakes so much is because the tripod is of poor quality (I assume it's mostly plastic). I've experienced it before and boy is it frustrating. Although I wouldn't reccomend buying a new tripod, as a good one would cost more than your scope or you'd be better off getting a quality scope that has a nice mount. Not sure if there are ways to sturdy it up.

I would suggest selling it, and using that money to buy a good starter scope like the Orion XT4.5. But if your wife will not let you get anything else, the people here are sure to come up with some solutions to help you.


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Anonymous
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Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #235973 - 10/30/04 02:37 AM

Ah almost forgot, welcome to CN!

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Anonymous
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Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #235978 - 10/30/04 02:50 AM

I think the tripod is aluminum (or so it claims). It doesn't feel like plastic. But it is shakey as can be so I guess it doesn't really matter does it!!

Yeah, I'm stuck with this one now. I'm try to get a few good plossl eyepieces and then if I really decide I like this I will likely upgrade to a better scope. Right now I'm testing the waters. And truthfully I'm disappointed. I'm really hoping the eyepieces will cure that problem. (I only have a H20,H6 and SR4 or something like that)


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werewolf6977Moderator
Lord High Smasher
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Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 7442
Loc: Hanover, Ohio
Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #235984 - 10/30/04 03:16 AM

Nathan, with a few good Plossl ep's, and a 5 lb weight in your accessory tray, your scope can be useful. My Orion SP130EQ is a little wobbly (damp time after thump to ota 2-3 seconds) until I put a 5 lb weight or two in the acc tray. Save your bux up, and for $300.00 or less, you can get a 6", or an 8" Dob. (Did I just recommend a Dob??). BE a lot bang for your buck. As far as objects drifting in your FOV, they will unless you get at least an RA drive. Have fun, and Clear Dark Skies!! "jump:

--------------------
Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop


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Stelios
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 1356
Loc: West Hills, CA
Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #235994 - 10/30/04 03:43 AM

Yes, they do move that fast when their move is magnified by the power of your telescope. This is a fact of life for everyone.

To avoid it, you either need a drive (which will make your scope move at the exact same rate of speed, imperceptible to you but enough to make things look stationary) or to use the fine motion controls that you have to move the scope in the direction of the rotation of the sky.

Also lower power eyepieces will make the move seem to occur slower.

As for the scope shaking whenever you try to focus, this is because usually on inexpensive scopes the savings is in the mount. There is no way they can make a really steady mount for a very low price.

--------------------
APM/TMB 115/805 APO
9.25S - GT
Naglers: 17T4, 13T6, 3-6 zoom
UWANs: 28mm, 7mm
Pentax 10XW, 10mm Radian (shootout coming!!!)
Misc EP: 50mm Parks, 42mm GSO, 2x TV Barlow


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John M
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/01/03
Posts: 571
Loc: Mesa/Tucson, AZ
Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: Stelios]
      #236049 - 10/30/04 07:03 AM

Nathan,

The 5lb weight is a good option. Make sure the legs are spread out as far as they will go and as low as possible and if there are any bolts holding the legs together make sure they are tight.

As for keeping things in the field of view (FOV) the mount needs to be at least roughly polar aligned. This requires that the front of the mount be pointed North. The stars will then appear to move in one direction and can be tracked by moving only the Right Ascention (RA) motion. That is the slow motion knob that moves the scope around the part of the mount that is pointed North. Because the earth moves around its North/South axis all things in the sky seem to move from East to West. This is the reason the German Equatorial Mount (GEM) was invented so objects in the sky could be tracked as the Earth rotates underneath the sky. And yes, depending on the magnification, they appear to move very fast! Polar alignment does not have to be anything more then roughly pointing the mount at the North Star. I have a clock drive on my RA axis. Once I have an object in the FOV I engage the clock drive and it moves the mount/scope for me to keep objects in the FOV instead of me turning the RA motion knob. The advantage of the clock drive is that I don't need to touch the scope to keep the object in the FOV. If I am very roughly polar aligned the object will stay in the FOV for only a few minutes, or if I have spent some time on the polar alignment it can stay in the FOV for an hour or more. If a clock drive is an option we will need more details to find one that is suitable for your mount. A clock drive could run from $40-$90. If cost won't allow for a clock drive you will need to learn how to move the RA motion with the minimum of vibration.

I hope this helps.

--------------------
John M
Mesa/Tucson, AZ
8" Sky View Pro Newt
90mm Meade 386D Refractor
60 mm Monlux Refractor


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: John M]
      #236062 - 10/30/04 08:01 AM

Nathan, that's the planet revolving, not the stars. It does move fast (1000 mph at the equator). You need an electric drive to compensate.



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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04
Posts: 12070
Loc: San Diego, California
Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: John M]
      #236064 - 10/30/04 08:08 AM Attachment (5 downloads)

I think that John has hit the nail on the head, Nathan needs to Polar Align his mount. This just means that the Right Ascention axis needs to be pointed at the Polaris (actually not quite at Polaris. Then you use the RA slow motion control to "track" the object as it moves.

Jon Isaacs


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #236154 - 10/30/04 10:49 AM

Hey guys thanks for the advice! I thought something was slipping in my mount for everything to move that fast. I always thought it would take a couple minutes or so to lose an object from my FOV. I will try a polar align first next time. I was just using a compass and pointing it in the general direction first. It takes a long time to move the scope with the knobs!!! I will try the weight also, I never thought of that. Thanks again everyone!

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Anonymous
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Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #236197 - 10/30/04 11:36 AM

Nathan,

You might try looking at Polaris. This will roughly allow you to determine whether objects moving out of your field of view is a consequence of the earth's rotating or the mount being less than stable.

Good luck....

Bill


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Krytoss
sage


Reged: 09/10/04
Posts: 382
Loc: Toronto, ON
Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #236226 - 10/30/04 12:23 PM

Just to be sure that nothing IS slipping, is your setup balanced? Your scope is essentially the same as mine (EQ2 mount, 5.1" reflector). You can find the manual for it here: http://www.skywatchertelescope.com/Downloads/GENERAL_EQ1and2.pdf

Page 12 has info on how to balance the scope. That said, it does sound like you're just hitting the surprise when you see how fast we're moving At lower mags, this isn't really apparant, but when you start getting up into the magnifications, things move pretty quick through the view.

On THAT note, with a 4.5, you probably wouldn't want to go above 180-200x mag anyway, thats about the limit your scope can go (maximum is usually 40-50x the aperture of your scope).

good luck and clear skies

--------------------
- Robert
Skywatcher 5.1" Newt / EQ6 / DSI / Dogged Persistence to make it all work


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: Krytoss]
      #236235 - 10/30/04 12:44 PM

It's very similar to the Orion 4.5" Short Tube reflector-- It's on the same mount (EQ1).

You can find a manual for that one at http://www.telescope.com/text/content/pdf/inst_09849.pdf.

As others have said, balance the scope, tighten down as much as possible (don't overtighten), and learn to align the mount on Polaris. Once you do that, the slow motion controls should allow you to keep objects in view with relatively little effort.


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ForgottenMObject
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Reged: 09/11/04
Posts: 3585
Loc: Maryland, US
Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #236273 - 10/30/04 01:18 PM

Also, if not mentioned before, get a few decent eyepieces and DO NOT be lured in by the "more power = good!" silliness that crops up from dishonest telescope dealers. Most of your observing will be done at lower powers, and rarely does atmospheric conditions let you get much above 200x.

Your current eyepieces are, to be honest, junk, but that can be easily fixed. Good Plossls will produce a significant improvement in your viewing pleasure. They have better optics, wider fields of view, and so on. And they aren't that costly - check out Orion Telescope's Sirius line of Plossls, as one example.

To get the magnification provided by an eyepiece, divide the focal length of the telescope (in mm) by the focal length of the eyepiece (in mm). That will give you the magnification provided by that eyepiece.

Now, I am going to ASSUME that this scope has the same optical path as an Orion Short Tube reflector, but you must check the focal length of the scope yourself, just to be sure.

Focal Length of (similar?) Orion Short Tube = 1000mm

Now, you can get a nice mix of eyepieces from the Sirius line (or similar, but I am just suggesting them for now), such as a 32mm for low-power viewing to find objects and look at large objects, a 17mm for medium to low-power viewing, and a 10mm to get 100x for mid power viewing.

That's just one example, but it gets the point across that you'll need about 3 or 4 eyepieces - one nice, big, low power eyepiece to use to find objects and enjoy wider fields of view, a higher power eyepiece (but not over 200x) for high power views of planets, double stars, and globular clusters, and about 2 eyepieces between the two extremes.

I think that Orion offers sets of Sirius and Highlight Plossls (the Highlights have slightly better coatings are slightly more costly) that could help you. There is a Starter set, which includes a 26mm, a 17mm, and a 10mm - this would probably be the best place to begin, and an Expansion set, which has a 20mm, a 12.5mm, and a 7.5mm. Those are higher power eyepieces, which makes them more suited for planets and such.

Anyway, hope we've been of help to you!

While I cannot speak for the optical quality of your particular scope, I started in astronomy about 16 years ago with a $300 equivalent of your current scope. A Tasco 11TR 4.5 F7.9 Reflector on an equatorial mount almost identical to yours (the legs back then were wood, which was nicer). It, too, came with CRUD eyepieces - Ramsdens, Hyugens, and other junk that were actually PLASTIC - but I quickly replaced them with what I could find, which wasn't much since it could only take 0.965" diameter eyepieces. Back then, Orion sold Orthoscopics in that size, and thus I became a loyal customer of them and enjoyed much better views with my little telescope. I had it for over 5 years, enjoying it all the while, before I upgraded.

Point being: while your current scope may not be incredible, you can still do a lot with it, and since you can use the standard 1.25" diameter eyepieces, you're better off than I was.

Good luck, welcome to the hobby, and have fun!

--------------------
Matthew
IDA member
XT8i, 10x50 binoculars, lots of eyepieces


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kiwisailor
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Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 1110
Loc: Lyttelton, New Zealand
Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ForgottenMObject]
      #236289 - 10/30/04 01:49 PM Attachment (2 downloads)

Hi Nathan

All the EQ clone mounts suffer from vibration, like the poster above, I put a weight in my accessory tray. I also brace up the top of the tripod legs with a whipping (naw I don't mean beating it to death with a lenght of cane)

Winding a lenght of 4/6mm rope around the legs really stiffens them up.(photo below0

Astronomy boy has a good tutorial on EQ mounts that may help you http://www.astronomyboy.com/eq/

--------------------

Don't wait until tomorrow, start procrastinating today!

Sky-Watcher 8" F5 Newt
Mmmm Moonlite CR2


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: kiwisailor]
      #236371 - 10/30/04 04:16 PM

Great guys, thanks for the tips!! It is currently cloudy and about 40mph winds but if it ever clears up around here I will give it a shot!! Saturn is coming up earlier and that is my first big goal to reach!! Thanks again!

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BluewaterObserva
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Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 4763
Loc: Zuni Mtns, NM
Re: My scope is "running" away! Help!!! new [Re: ]
      #237598 - 11/01/04 09:55 AM

kiwisailor, not that's a properly vibe dampened mount!!!!

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