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Equipment Discussions >> Video and Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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mclewis1
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Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror
      #2368973 - 05/03/08 01:57 PM Attachment (57 downloads)

I have been using a Mallincam for about a week on multiple scopes both with and without a second scope mounted in tandem to help find and frame objects. It has become clear that the second scope is very useful but since I wasn't always going to have the second scope mounted I felt I needed a better way of finding and framing objects for the Mallincam.

Years ago I got to use a very old flip mirror setup on a refractor for imaging with a 35mm camera and remembered the value of that configuration. After reading Roland's great review on the Vixen flip mirror and doing a little research I decided to take the plunge.

The Vixen is as Roland stated a very nice flip mirror setup. It adds about 120mm in length to the optical path, maybe a little less if you are using a 1.25" focal reducer as that will sit up inside the 1.25" barrel attachment. Here is where Vixen could make a nice change to the product. If they split the barrels in half and used the existing T thread they could take 25mm or so out of the optical path. This would help with the acceptance of the product since many setups can't handle an additional 120mm of path length. Fortunately I'm planning to use the product primarily with my two SCTs which have lots of back focus capability.

With my SCTs I wanted to use an F6.3 SCT threaded focal reducer and possibly a 1.25" F5 reducer as well. The F6.3 needs something like 110mm distance from the reducer to the film plane/chip/eyepiece. This number can vary somewhat but with too much distance the image starts to break down and back focus even on an SCT becomes a problem. The Vixen flip mirror appeared to be tailor made for use behind the F6.3 focal reducer with the exception of connections.

The nose piece of the flip mirror is a short 2" barrel style. To attach it to the SCT threads on the F6.3 reducer a 2" visual back can be used. I purchased a short or low profile TeleVue model in order to keep the overall path length as short as possible.

On the other end the flip mirror uses 1.25" barrel attachments (single set screw though , no compression rings so be careful that the single screw is nice and tight). The Mallincam comes with a 1.25" 25mm nose piece, so that wasn't a problem. In addition my inexpensive F5 reducer threads onto 1.25" eyepiece filter threads so it also attaches to the front of the Mallincam nose piece just fine. As I previously mentioned since the nose piece (and reducer) fits up inside the 1.25" barrel it actually shortens the path length a bit. This made up for some of the length added by the 2" visual back.

So my setup ends up with the F6.3 reducer threaded onto the scope or external focuser > 2" short visual back > Vixen flip mirror > F5 1.25" reducer > 25mm nose piece > Mallincam.

So how does it work? Quite well actually. Eyepieces in the flip mirror usually require an extra 10-25mm extension to come to focus and I solved that with pieces from an old 2x barlow. The focal ratio with both reducers on either of my F10 Celestrons seems to end up just below F3.

Overall using the flip mirror is a pleasure, it's really easy to pick up objects visually and since the eyepiece and the MC are parafocal the objects are in sharp focus on the video monitor as soon as the mirror is flipped. No more hunting, everything has been centered on the video screen. This has also been useful when judging the size of very faint objects on the video screen. Many times before I started using the flip mirror I'd be searching for objects with the MC and notice that I'd often pass over very faint extended objects. The extra focal reduction and the preview in the flip mirror eyepiece have combined to ensure that I don't pass over faint objects any more.

This is a picture of the setup in question on my C6 ... I tend to try out stuff on my C6 before moving up to the C11. In this shot you can see the F6.3 reducer threaded onto the rear of the scope, the short 2" visual back (with it's extended set screws which have to be removed on my C6 when installing or removing the reducer/visual back because of interference with the FT microfocuser below them). Next is the flip mirror with a 25mm eyepiece (but no extensions in this shot), and the Mallincam. The MC's 25mm nose piece and reducer are up inside that 1.25" barrel on the right.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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mclewis1
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2368979 - 05/03/08 02:00 PM Attachment (43 downloads)

Here is a shot of the flip mirror setup on my C11. In this picture I don't have the F6.3 focal reducer mounted. The flip mirror is attached directly to the JMI NGF-S motorized crayford style focuser.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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mclewis1
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2368998 - 05/03/08 02:15 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

And an exploded view showing all the connections ...

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon


Reged: 10/13/05
Posts: 519
Loc: Louisiana
Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2369042 - 05/03/08 02:51 PM

Mark,

Thanks for posting the pictures. I am sure that they will benefit others who are considering getting a flip mirror for use with their camreas.

Jack

--------------------
Orion ED80
Coulter CT-100
Celestron 6" f/8 Refractor
8" Newtonian/Cassegrain on Byers 812 Mount
Classic C-8
Celestron 11" CPC 100 with HyperStar
Tricked-out 17.5" AstroSystems TeleKit
Life Member and ALCOR - PAS New Orleans

Waning Moon II Observatory


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Bill Cowles
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Reged: 04/16/06
Posts: 644
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2369189 - 05/03/08 04:25 PM

Mark can you still focus when you add the 6.3 reducer and the Crayford focusesr?

Bill

--------------------
Lunt LS60TS50DS/B1200/FT (on order)
TV Gensis/Solarmax 60 filter
PST DS/Herschel Wedge/C4-R
C6-R /Atlas Goto/Moonlite CF2
12" LightBridge/Round Table
MCHP/8" Orion OTA


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rolandlinda3
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #2369740 - 05/03/08 09:57 PM

Yep, the animal is a nice piece of gear for the price. Focus with SCTs is not an issue, but for both the SV102ED and my Dob, I simply replaced the straight in tube with a shorter adapter. Roland

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mclewis1
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #2370659 - 05/04/08 12:36 PM

Quote:

Mark can you still focus when you add the 6.3 reducer and the Crayford focusesr?




Bill,

I dont' know because I still haven't had that combination (C11, crayford, F6.3 and F5 reducers) out under the stars yet. I had the FR/flip combination on the C11 without the crayford to validate the final F ratio ... and that was done during daylight hours on terrestrial objects that may not have been at the infinity focus point.

Unfortunately that testing is going to have to wait until sometime next week (work getting in the way).

I'm also planning to write up my experiences with the focal reducers separately. I'll need a few good nights to compare image quality with the variety of configurations.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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mclewis1
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: rolandlinda3]
      #2370682 - 05/04/08 12:45 PM

Quote:

I simply replaced the straight in tube with a shorter adapter.




Roland, I read your comment about using what you believe is the SS #TADP to go from the flip mirror to the Mallincam. Can you post some more details, and maybe a picture (or drawing )?

Thanks,

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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Bill Cowles
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Posts: 644
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2370732 - 05/04/08 01:07 PM

I don't know that could be pushing it ,asking for a drawing or sketch.

Bill

--------------------
Lunt LS60TS50DS/B1200/FT (on order)
TV Gensis/Solarmax 60 filter
PST DS/Herschel Wedge/C4-R
C6-R /Atlas Goto/Moonlite CF2
12" LightBridge/Round Table
MCHP/8" Orion OTA


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mclewis1
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #2372988 - 05/05/08 04:11 PM

Bill,

Have you seen some of Roland's great drawings/sketches? I think I'd take one of Roland's sketches over my pathetic photography skills any day.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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Bill Cowles
professor emeritus
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Reged: 04/16/06
Posts: 644
Loc: Utah
Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2373335 - 05/05/08 06:49 PM

Yes I have seen his sketches and they are fantastic as well as the information that he passes on to us. It was done in jest as I know of few in CN that have his talent for sketching.

Bill

--------------------
Lunt LS60TS50DS/B1200/FT (on order)
TV Gensis/Solarmax 60 filter
PST DS/Herschel Wedge/C4-R
C6-R /Atlas Goto/Moonlite CF2
12" LightBridge/Round Table
MCHP/8" Orion OTA


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rolandlinda3
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: Bill Cowles]
      #2373859 - 05/05/08 11:02 PM

OK guys, it is the TAMF, $34, Male to Female T-Thread Adapter, 1.25 in bore, with Thumbscrews. Sorry I don't have a picture .... or a sketch, but thanks for the comments. I have to give the credit to Another, however.

Roland


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rolandlinda3
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: rolandlinda3]
      #2373893 - 05/05/08 11:13 PM

I forgot one thing: the original owner of the flip had removed the adapter piece on the flip so I got it with only female threads on one port. When I bought my first adapter piece, it was too long although it screwed in just fine. So when I got the TAMF, I also got a male-male short piece (T threads on both sides). I screw this on the flip then attach the TAMF. The net result is a length about 1/2 of the original tube. As a result, for both my SCT and my Dob, I am actually not far from focus with video cameras as compared to the an EP focus point on the other port. Hope this is not too confusing. Roland

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mclewis1
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: rolandlinda3]
      #2484700 - 06/26/08 03:24 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

I've been looking for ways to shorten the optical path behind the F6.3 FR. I was almost going to follow Roland's suggestion of getting the #TAMF from Scopestuff but I decided to go the cheap route.

The existing 1.25" adapters that come as part of the Vixen flip mirror are just over 2" long and wonder of wonders are threaded all the way up inside them (no doubt to reduce internal reflections). I decided to try and cut one of them down. So after a little careful work with a 32tpi hacksaw, sandpaper and a file I have a flip mirror with 1" less total length.

This change has improved two areas ... stellar images are a little tighter, especially in the corners (I'm now down under 110mm from the rear of the F6.3 FR to the front of the OPT FR). The weight of the Mallincam is also now a little closer to the scope (a bit less of a lever).

In the picture below you might also notice the extra 7.5mm ring under the adapter that has the eyepiece inserted into it. That extra 7.5mm makes the 25mm eyepiece almost perfectly parafocal with the MC.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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mclewis1
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2484715 - 06/26/08 03:29 PM Attachment (21 downloads)

A second picture of the adapter with the MC and OPT FR insterted (and before I blackened the newly cut edge). You can clearly see that the FR will now sit up slightly inside the frame of the flip mirror. This is about as short as I could make the adapter, any shorter and the T threads on the flip mirror would start to bottom out against the inside lip in the adapter.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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semiosteve
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Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 143
Loc: NEOhio
Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: mclewis1]
      #2488225 - 06/28/08 03:43 PM

What that on top of your Mallincam there? Is that a Watec (or similar)? Where did you find that ball joint mount? Pretty cool setup.

--------------------
Steve Verba
7in. Astro-Physics StarFire
20in. Obsession
15 x 15 Rolloff (Backyard Observatories)
Mallincam Hyper Color video camera


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mclewis1
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Re: Mallincam finding and framing - Flip mirror new [Re: semiosteve]
      #2488282 - 06/28/08 04:25 PM

Steve,

Thanks, have a look at this thread, it should answer all your questions. link

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam


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