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Bob Myler
member
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 49
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Are ther ANY handheld binoculars out there capable of producing pinpoint stars at the field edge? If not, - regardless of objective diameter, power, eye relief, FOV, etc; - what's currently available out there that comes closest?
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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2521
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Fujinon 10x50 is the closest I've seen personally. Not that I have a nagler eyepiece for my scope though...
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50
WO Megrez II 80 FD
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gatorengineer
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/28/05
Posts: 656
Loc: Hellertown, PA
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Hands down Nikon 7x50 Prostars..... The Fujis are great, but cant touch the prostars, I have both.....
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16" Dob
8" F10 STF Mak Cass
10" LX200R OTA
8"F20 Dall Kirkham
12.5" F3.5 Newt
CGE
Lots of binos---
Nikon 8x30, 10x35, Prostars,10W/18 x 70 astrolux; 10x50 Fujis, . Collectors items 12x60 BLC, 10x80 Flaks, Gas Masks, US Mark 28, 30, 41, 43's
Telescopes Past - C8, Meade LX10-10", SN8, TAL150K, Orion 150MC, Jason 60mm refractor, ATM 6" F8, WO 110FLT, 92mm Off Axis Newt, Nikon 20x120 bino's, 15x110 Boarderguards, Kuhne Flaks
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5176
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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I don't know of any that give 82 deg apparent fields of view and pin point stars to the edge of the field.
The Nikon SEs give very good edge performance. The Zeiss 10x42FL gives surprisingly good edge performance for a relatively wide apparent field.
Rich
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9956
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Bob ,
You opted to choose " Nagler " as a yardstick in the heading , but then went on to mention that Field of View was unimportant .
Are you necessarily trying to find out if there are ny binoculars that have 82 degree or wider AFOV eyepieces which are well corrected to the very edge ?
if that is the case , I think you are going to be disappointed .
If not , and you are just wanting to find binoculars with pin - point stars to the edge , regardless of AFOV , then that is another question .
Not that there are many , to my knowledge , even with AFOVs more comparable to Radians or even Plossls .
On the other hand , if F.O.V , eye relief and objective diameters are irrelevent to you , you could try masking down the objectives of some very good 50mm binoculars , to say 35mm , ( to increase f.ratio ) and fit washers to reduce eye relief , but also to " cut - out " the outer 20% of the field of view ( hiding the rubbish , as I've put it before ) by effectively creating a new , narrower field stop .
That way , you " could " end up with something like a 10 x 35 with a 4 degree TFOV with pin - point stars to the very edge !
Regards
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12108
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I'll need to add my new Prostars to the database. They are sharp, but not yet measured.
The best of the best that I've measured
Fujinon FMT-SX 16x70
Pentax PCF WP 16x60
Nikon SE 12x50
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x70
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x50
Celestron Regal 8x42 Roof
Nikon SE 8x32
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
In the above group, at the very edge, the finest is the Nikon SE 12x50
5% to 10% in from the edge, the best, in this order, are the Celestron Regal 8x42 Roof, Nikon SE 12x50, Nikon SE 8x32, Fujinon FMT-SX 10x50. The Fujinon FMT-SX10x50 do it with an astonishing 70° Afov, the FMT-SX 16x70 with an Afov=65°.
None of the above even come close to these combos
Oberwerk BT100 - 20TV pl
Oberwerk BT100 - 14 Radian
Oberwerk BT100 - 12.5 UO or
In the BT100, with the 14mm Radian, I observed a 5 arcsec double star split even as it drifted off the very edge of the field stop, a total edge aberration only 1/3rd that of the Nikon SE.
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Bob Myler
member
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 49
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Great answers, thanks guys.
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ronharper
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 877
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The answers are all very good. My best edge corrected bino is the Fujinon 10x50. I'd love to try a Prostar some day.
But, FWIW, I'd say in a "hand-held" binocular, this is not a very important quality. Why strain your eye to look at the edge of the field, when you can swing the binocular by hand to center the thing of interest? A large "sweet spot" perhaps 20 degrees, of really sharp focus, is necessary to please my eye. But there are always trade-offs in binocular optics, and I'd prefer killer sharpness and contrast in the middle to pinpoint stars at the edge where I never look.
Ron
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12108
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Well having said this earlier Quote:
I'll need to add my new Prostars to the database. They are sharp, but not yet measured.
and having now spent the evening out with several instruments, including the Nikon Prostar 7x50, I must now completely revise everything I wrote earlier.
The Nikon Prostar 7x50 has BY FAR the finest (least) edge distortion of any binocular I have ever held in my hands. And not by just a small amount, but by leaps and bounds. In fact, edge distortion seems to be nearly absent.
The best of the best that I've measured
Nikon ProStar 7x50
then
Fujinon FMT-SX 16x70
Pentax PCF WP 16x60
Nikon SE 12x50
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x70
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x50
Celestron Regal 8x42 Roof
Nikon SE 8x32
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
In the above group, at the very edge, the finest is the Nikon ProStar 7x50, the next closest, the Nikon SE 12x50, has three times or more edge distortion.
5% to 10% in from the edge, the best, in this order, are the Nikon ProStar 7x50, then following a distant second with three to four times the distortion, the Celestron Regal 8x42 Roof, then the Nikon SE 12x50, Nikon SE 8x32, Fujinon FMT-SX 10x50. The Fujinon FMT-SX10x50 do it with an astonishing 70° Afov, the FMT-SX 16x70 with an Afov=65°. But the very fine Fujinon 10x50, at 90% out in the field, have 5 times the distortion as that measured in the Nikon Prostar.
Only the Prostar 7x50 come close to these combos
Oberwerk BT100 - 20TV pl
Oberwerk BT100 - 14 Radian
Oberwerk BT100 - 12.5 UO or
In the BT100, with the 14mm Radian at 44x, I observed a 5 arcsec double star split even as it drifted off the very edge of the field stop, a total edge aberration only 1/3rd that of the Nikon SE.
In the Nikon Prostar 7x50, I used my usual 62 arcsecond pair of stars to see where it would distort from view near the edge. It never did. I could so easily see the pair Nu Draco, even at the edge of field stop, that I would estimate total aberration at the edges perhaps only 15-20 arcsec, if that. No other fixed power binocular that I've used has ever done that. So, the Prostar gives a 7.5° field of view with distortion nearly absent, for the widest, most aberration free field of view I've ever seen in any binocular.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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Hummm!? 'Seems I've heard that before!     
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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John F
sage
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 289
Loc: Washington State
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Ed,
Congradulations on getting a pair of the Prostars. As a binocular connosisseur I suspect that you'll fall in love with them. It is too bad that their power is only 7x and that they have such a bright exit pupil (i.e., 7.14mm) as that limits their utility for astronomy unless you get to use them at a place like Baxter State Park in Maine where sky gets really dark at night. Nevertheless, despite their size and weight they're so *BLEEP* good you'll look for opportunities to use them whenever you can.
The Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe is in the same league as the 7x50s quality wise but are generally more useful for astronomy because their magnification and aperture advantages. Even at dark sky sites I use them a lot more than the Prostars for those very reasons.
Of all the other binoculars that I've tried one other that stands out for the quality of its edge performance is the Zeiss 15x60 B/GATs. And that's especially impressive given that they're a wide field model (i.e., 65-degree AFOV) unlike the two Nikon models mentioned above that have AFOVs in the 50-degree range.
John Finnan
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Leica 7x42 Ultravid
Nikon 7x50 Prostar
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe
Leica 12x50 Ultravid
Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT
Takahashi 22x60 Astronomer
NP-127 w/Bino Vue
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 875
Loc: Country road
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Quote:
EdZ wrote:
The Nikon Prostar 7x50 has BY FAR the finest (least) edge distortion of any binocular I have ever held in my hands. And not by just a small amount, but by leaps and bounds. In fact, edge distortion seems to be nearly absent.
The best of the best that I've measured
Nikon ProStar 7x50
then
Fujinon FMT-SX 16x70
Pentax PCF WP 16x60
Nikon SE 12x50
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x70
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x50
Celestron Regal 8x42 Roof
Nikon SE 8x32
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
Hmmm. . . As I look over the models on my shelf, I wonder how the Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50 (porro) and the Pentax DCF ED 10x50 (roof) compare to this list?
Does anybody have any thoughts?
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5176
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Hi Ed,
Congratulations on the Nikon ProStar 7x50!
How much eye relief do they have?
All the best,
Rich
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12108
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Hi Ed,
Congratulations on the Nikon ProStar 7x50!
How much eye relief do they have?
All the best,
Rich
Enough for me to use them with my glasses on. I'm tight to the eyepieces, but not smashed up against them, and I can still see the entire fov.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5176
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Neat! That's very encouraging. Better than expected.
Thanks, Ed!
Rich
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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Just about everything about the Prostar is "better than expected."
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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P.S. On EdZ's Prostar, the collimator reticles are SUPERIMPOSED! And when he is pushing up daisies, they will probably still be within a fraction of MilSpec.
That's actually not very kind of him. He should contribute to collimation threads, too! But then, on the Prostar, he will probably NEVER have to. That's a shame; some people think collimation screws are a feature.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12108
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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and BillC would know my Prostar, very well indeed.
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2297
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Well, I see who beat me to them... I figured that, EdZ- when I saw you had gotten a pair-- and I never heard back from the person who was selling them! Though I must must add, if anybody deserved to get that particular pair, it would have been you! Mebbe I'll get the next pair some very knowledgeable bino specialist puts out there!
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2297
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EdZ-
Sounds like these Nikons are going to rate as some of the best ever for their size...
Wes
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