EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12345
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
The term "Nagler-like" generally means a WIDE AFOV in additon to edge sharpness. Most OEMs consider their binos to be WIDE if the AFOV > 65°. So I am suprised no one has mention the Nikon 8x30 E2 with its 70° AFOV (8.8° TFOV). Generally still available in most of the world ex USA for some silly reason. 
clear skies,
Rick
I have data on over 60 different binoculars in my database. A wide variety from 7x35 to 25x100, and many many small sizes and large sizes in between.
Less than 10 binoculars have Afov of 65°. I would say a 65°+ Afov is quite uncommon in binoculars. Only 4 of them handle the wide field well, so less than 7% of 60 binoculars have a GOOD wide field 65° or larger.
There are just as many in the data that have 50° or less as there are that are 65° or greater.
Half of all binoculars range from 60° to 65°
More than 20 binoculars have Afov of 53° or less. We sometimes hear people describe this as tunnel like, yet more than 1/3 of binoculars have eyepieces with these narrow field stops. Only 3 of these handle outer Afov sharpness poorly.
More than 15 binoculars have Afov of 64° or greater. Of these, 10 handle outer Afov sharpness poorly.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
Edited by EdZ (05/08/08 08:05 PM)
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davidmcgo
sage
Reged: 10/09/04
Posts: 441
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Maybe "Panoptic Like" is more typical than "Nagler Like", but Nagler designed the Panoptic! I am suprised no one mentioned the Canon 15x50IS in this discussion. The rectilinear distortion and slight lateral color allowed to maintain perfect focus out to edge in the Canons is very similar design philosophy I think, and performance on night sky is very similar in feel to a small refractor with a Panoptic eyepiece.
Dave
Edited by davidmcgo (05/08/08 10:07 PM)
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2364
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Hmmm... reading back on this and some of the other recent posts, seems like a head-to-head shoot-out between the Nikon 7x50 Prostar, Fujinon 7x50 FMT-SX and Orion Resolux 7x50 would make for an interesting comparison...
Wes
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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Prostar #1
FMT #4
Orion #5
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2364
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Quote:
Prostar #1
FMT #4
Orion #5
Bill
And #'s 2 & 3 would be??
Sorry- I also meant to add the WO 7x50 into the mix as well... as EdZ noted in a different thread- on the Resolux 10x50's-
Quote:
The WO 7050:
has the finest resolution of any small binocular I've tested, so far. ...has the greatest illumance of any small binocular I've tested so far.
There seems to be enough top quality binoculars, and close enough in many aspects that to just place arbitrary numbers on them without the comments to go along with them is selling them short. It'd be nice, when looking at the upper end binoculars in any given class, what the differences are before making a purchasing decision. I, for one, live where the best bino's I can walk into a store and compare are in the $100-$200 range. Top quality bino's? I have to take a shot in the dark based upon what tests and reviews I can find- mail order them and hope for the best. And if one reads a review from one source- and then later another one from another source, by someone else, it's still not really as accurate a comparison as if the same person reviews them all at the same time and under the same conditions. EdZ has been exceptionally invaluable to us all here (Thank You, EdZ!  ) in providing computer-like accurate and meaningful comparisons and tests. Would simply love to see him do a shoot-out between the top, say- 7x50's (as they seem to be a particular hot topic of interest at the present time) then, perhaps 10x50's, etc.
Wes
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12345
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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as I said, Small Binocular Series - the 7x50s is underway.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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#2 and #3 have been intentionally left blank out of respect for the Prostar.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 915
Loc: Country road
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Quote:
EdZ wrote Small Binocular Series - the 7x50s is underway.
EdZ, as a new owner of a Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50, I am looking forward to your test results.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 915
Loc: Country road
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Quote:
Wes James wrote: I, for one, live where the best bino's I can walk into a store and compare are in the $100-$200 range. Top quality bino's? I have to take a shot in the dark based upon what tests and reviews I can find- mail order them and hope for the best. And if one reads a review from one source- and then later another one from another source, by someone else, it's still not really as accurate a comparison as if the same person reviews them all at the same time and under the same conditions. EdZ has been exceptionally invaluable to us all here (Thank You, EdZ! ) in providing computer-like accurate and meaningful comparisons and tests. Would simply love to see him do a shoot-out between the top, say- 7x50's (as they seem to be a particular hot topic of interest at the present time)
I agree, EdZ's test are the best comparisons going.
Quote:
I would like to see the Pentax DCF ED 10x50 added to one of EdZ's exhaustive tests.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 915
Loc: Country road
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Quote:
BillC wrote:Prostar #1
FMT #4 (#2)
Orion #5 (#3)
Bill, of course, we look forward to your supporting documentation for the above ratings. 
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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DblVision
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/11/06
Posts: 539
Loc: 29.99N 92.15W
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...It's in his signature line. 
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Neal
G.O. Sig 10.5x70
Swift 761 8X42
60mm Spotter
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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Thank you!
Bob: Neal is correct!
That does NOT mean MY assessment of any binocular is correct. Having been inside more binos than most bino execs have ever seen in a warehouse, I feel pretty confident about making judgments . . . that would make ME happy. HOWEVER, from MY perspective, some people on the list take performance way into language that THEY do not understand and I honestly don't care about.
If we took all the technical stuff off this list it would be VERY dry. And while I am responsible for a lot of it, I really don't use it in my life that much. I can pick good binoculars from bad in a matter of seconds without any weird, next to meaningless testing.
Prostar=I've yet to see a better 7x50.
FMT=I've yet to find a better 7x50 for a boat--though I have chosen to drop Fujinon after decades.
Orion Resolux=FMT knock off. A good bino no matter whose name is on it . . . and there are many.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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BobinKy
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 915
Loc: Country road
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Bill--
Well said.
Thanks for coming back into the thread and sharing your knowledge and experience.
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Bob
38° Kentucky, USA
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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You're welcome.
But, remember, those who know the most often care the least. I was with Dick Buchroeder in Tucson one day, when he stopped on the way to Azteca to buy a TASCO with ruby coatings. His example would seem one NOT to be followed.
However, one must realize that this was to INVESTIGATE off axis performance; it was sold immediately. Things are NOT always as the seems. Was Dick endorsing the model? Of course not. He was just mature enough not to worry about his reputation. . . . . I order mine mail order . . . in plain brown wrappers!
'Been a coward since birth.
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2364
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But then, I repeat myself...
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ronharper
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 964
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Bill,
You have said so many good things about Fujinon over the years. Why have you quit selling them? ( don't worry about hurting the Fuji-lovers' feelings, HAR!)
Ron
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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Mr. Fujinon USA is not honoring his commitments to take care of certain warranty repairs on gear that Fuji didn't actually manufacture--which is a lot. I told him I didn't CONTRACT with the OEM, but Fujinon. Four letters sent through his rep have gone unanswered. Thus, I answered it with the check book.
I have the HIGHEST respect for the models that Fuji actually manufacture--or have been sponsoring so long--but I don't need the headaches thrust on me by their man in America. Part of my love for the truth gives me the opportunity to blow off anyone who will not play with integrity, regardless of how big they perceive themselves to be.
With a change in personnel--and that won't happen--I would be pleased to support Fujinon, again.
Like Nagler, I support the product, but I won't buy it for the store.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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Jim Rosenstock
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 2199
Loc: MD, south of the DC Nebula
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Quote:
Like Nagler, I support the product, but I won't buy it for the store.
Cheers,
Bill
Bill,
I don't completely understand that statement...it could be taken in different ways. Can you elucidate?
Thanks,
Jim
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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Two years ago, Al came in and, finding one of each of his telescopes on display and one of each of his eyepieces and accessories on display, including two of the 31mm monster eyepieces, demanded that if we wanted to be Tele Vue dealers we would need to buy more. Well, at that moment, Washington had the second worse economy in the west. He even had our name dropped from his website of dealers. 'Seems to me that since he wanted us to sell more, he would have been eager to leave us on the site; especialy since it cost him money to have us take off.
Well, who pioneered bringing Tele Vue into the northwest?
Al said if I wanted to be a Tele Vue dealer again, I could buy more. I responded that I had already done that and what had it gotten me?
I explained that I was not responsible for Astro-Phisics, Thomas Back, Vixen, William Optics and all the others that were hitting his company hard, but that I couldn't make up for his loss, either. Sooooooo, I considered we just had a difference of opinion and dropped the line. I still think the product is top notch. It was our best line. I NEVER sent Tele Vue scopes or eyepieces back for cause.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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