Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 1881
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Quote:
Steve, I guess I dont understand how your suggestion wont work. It sure looks alot easier on myback than all those bags of concrete.
The way your pic looks, how could that not work?
Taking the definition of motar into account, according to wikipedia:
qoute:
Mortar is a material used in masonry to bind construction blocks together and fill the gaps between them. The blocks may be stone, brick, breeze blocks (cinder blocks), etc. Mortar is a mixture of sand, a binder such as cement or lime, and water and is applied as a paste which then sets hard. unquote
We all know motar sticks to cement block, and with motar being made of cement and water, what's not to understand?
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Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 25582
Loc: montana
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He did not say he didn't understand. 
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 1881
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Actually, that last post of mine was NOT for HIS benefit, it just does not say that.
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Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
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payner
sage
Reged: 03/22/07
Posts: 212
Loc: Bluegrass Region, Kentucky
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Really glad to hear the good new about the recent hospital visit. By the way, congratulations on your good efforts toward getting this observatory built.
Randy
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CGE1400 w/XLT & FT MicroFocuser
Russian-Intes MK 91 Rumak
Takahashi FS-128
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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Steve, your picture certainly makes a world of difference for me. The verbal explanation did not quite come across that way. So I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part.
Concrete blocks, when used to build walls anyway, are normally placed on a poured footing, this for house construction of course.
The only thing I can see to be of some improvement over your system, which I now agree with you is OK, would be to pour a 3" or so layer of concrete into the hole first, then add a layer of rebar, push that just into the surface of the concrete, then add your blocks and subsequent rebar.
Do you not agree that this would make the pour more homogeneous?
There had been a suggestion made previously I believe, in which it was suggested to just throw chunks of old block into the hole, and it was this that I had an objection to.
Again my apologies for misunderstanding your perfectly valid idea.
Keith
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 1881
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I must admit a layer of concrete in the bottom would not hurt...may help...I skipped it because I poured on bedrock, and I did not want to have to rush to install the blocks before anything set up, not that I would have. In hindsight I see I would have had plenty of time.
The other issue of throwing in chunks of broken up block....we do it all the time with scraps, we even throw in granite boulders that have been hosed off...anything that is solid rock so to speak that will be surrounded with wet concrete to take up space, to cut down on the amount of concrete used. It's all aggregate, the chunks are just larger than the crushed stone used in the mix.
Even more fitting in this type of use, as I said, there is not much need for highly engineered cement when it's only holding up a backyard telescope.
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Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
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RobVG
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 554
Loc: Seattle Washington
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Over Engineering.
Funny how just a year ago the golden rule was "no less than one cubic yard of concrete below grade". Seems like some poeple are getting away with a little less these days...
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C11 SGT(XLT)CG-5
Observatory (page 5)
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o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 1185
Loc: The Big Tomato, California
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Quote:
Steve, your picture certainly makes a world of difference for me. The verbal explanation did not quite come across that way. So I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part.
Keith
Same here. I grew up in a cement masonry and I didn't understand it either until Spoonsize (love that nickname) posted the pictures. Then it all made sense.
It's not the way I'd do it but I have a ~cement mixer~. Mixing bagged stuff in a wheelbarrow with a hoe is a whole different story so soaking up volume with cinder blocks is a good way to go.
Carry on, Widowmaker.
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Kit
"There's only two things that excite a man, expensive toys and real expensive toys." - Red Green
* A bunch of old ATM stuff that cost me next to nothing
* A bunch of new commercial stuff that cost me an arm and a leg
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 11511
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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Quote:
Over Engineering.
Funny how just a year ago the golden rule was "no less than one cubic yard of concrete below grade". Seems like some poeple are getting away with a little less these days...
We have a guy at our club that is imaging using his setup sitting on concrete PAVING blocks sitting on the ground... Been doing it for years... And to anyone who may be interested, I'm talking about Wally from AP (The guy who probably built your 900 or 1200)... 
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Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
 Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 15841
Loc: Brooker, FL
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I would anchor vertical rebar in the concrete block voids to get stronger joints.
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8 (LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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cocobolo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/27/07
Posts: 1550
Loc: british columbia, canada
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I guess it is whatever works for you, isn't it. If a paving block works, then a paving block it shall be.
At a star party a couple of years ago, there were several scopes set up on a wide concrete sidewalk surrounded by a huge area of grass.
We were all rather surprised by the sudden appearance of jumping images in the eyepiece, only to discover that three young girls were running across the grass some 10 yards away. Who would have thought something like that would have transferred right to the e.p.? But it did.
Fortunately no one was imaging.
Rusty, I think spoonsize did use vertical bar with his blocks, at least that's the impression I got.
Keith
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WidowMaker
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 656
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Hey yall. Thanks for all the suggestions.
We went ahead and did it the hard way, and just used all the concrete we had to fill in the pier hole.
Its kinda big, but I like it. Itll be hidden under the floor anyways.
I gotta run and get dinner and Ill come back and show pics!
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 656
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Two hours at WalMart after doing concrete and cutting floor joist pieces all day will flat wear you out.
Okay heres some pics. The new pier slab is about 4 inches under where the floor will be, about 5 1/2" once youcount the flooring.
It turned out kinda weird I think. I guess the water in the concrete worked its way to the top and left weird little swirls as well as some odd looking little holes that were not in there.
Its still level, moreso than the dob slab that became just a hair off from perfect, I guess from settling.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 656
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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And...
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 656
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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The new pier slab is 3ft deep has about 21 18" pieces of #4 rebar, 10 pieces of 48" #4 rebar, its size is 21x21", I figure that will give me a little wiggle room if things ever go bad for me. Im guessing they will...if they can.
Can you see those little holes, and swirl marks?
It was perfect looking, then suddenly became what you see now.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 656
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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A little closer on the weirdness.
What caused that? The rising water from the bottom?
It all evaporated, stil kinda soft to the touch.
I checked it just now and its still very level.
What gives?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 656
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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And one shot showing where it sits relative to the dob slab.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 656
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Oh, and we beat on it and hammered the box from the moment the concrete touched the box, trying our best to get all the air holes and stuff out.
We kept doing it all the way to the top and then only stopped to trowel it. 
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 15841
Loc: Brooker, FL
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Actually, it would have been best to pour to the top of the form then use a screed to level and flatten it. Also sprinkle some loose sand, and use a float to smooth the top.
However, it's doubtful what you see is anything but cosmetic...
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8 (LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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jgw12936
sage
Reged: 03/28/07
Posts: 300
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
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What was your plan in regards to the J-bolts?
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Jim
C11 XLT
APM/TMB 80/480
Tasco 60mm 12TE
Mach1GTO
Starlight Xpress SXVF-H9C
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