WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Hey yall.
Thanks for the help and suggestions.
I didnt mean to imply we were done with that 6' section.
We planned on putting some 'Y' bracing up there, I guess I wasnt thinking.
Were considering removing that 6ft piece and trying to find a better straighter one, but flipping it over wont work 'cos the other side is even worse than this side, and its got nicks and pieces missing we dont think the rail will sit well on.
Steve, what does ASCOB stand for?
A google turns up dog shows and 'Any Solid Color Other Than Black'. 
And yeah...I went to Lowe's and bought the 6x6x16's, and thanks to my luck, no one was there to help me before 1 p.m. so I had to manage somehow. It was horrible to say the least.
Weird thing though. I tried to pull the first one off, and it was about 5' or more off the ground and I managed to get one end closer to the end of the pile so I could see what would happen and the other end fell off, then the whole thing fell off right onto the cart perfectly! I swear!
Some guy walking by stopped and shook my hand and said hed pay to see that happen again!
The wife and I fought with all we had to get that in our hole then I had to stand on our pathetic ladder and cut it not once, but twice once we came up with the 'T' idea.
I never want to see another 6x6x16 in my life.
I think were gonna try the floor jack route though. Im gonna go get a few 4x6's for the 'Y' bracing, and one more in case we decide to replace that 6ft piece thats up there now,a floor jack, and a new back if they sell them.
Now that ive been inside the obs to look down the iron angle weve already attached, I had no idea how bad that 6ft piece bows out. Its like looking at a broken arm.
Im too embarrassed to take a pic of it.
The wife says it shouldnt matter as long as the iron angle will sit where we need it to, and we can brace the end of it.
I dont know...Id take a pic but it looks so bad maybe I can just hide it from the rest of the world.
I thought our only problem was the droopey end, but now that I can look right down the side of the wall at it, its worse than I thought.
:sigh:...
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2992
Loc: Bolton, MA
|
|
I think your wife is 100% correct; doesn't matter how much left/right warpage is in that beam as long as the metal rail is ON it the whole way... the deflection DOWNWARDS can be addressed in the best case by moving it up (via jacking and then Y bracing)...
In the worst case, if you can't get it close to level with jacking/bracing; well, you could always SHIM it...
So, nothing is lost really.
clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Well, i didnt want to, but why keep things from yall now.
Before I show these shots I want to say that standing on the van with sweat and sawdust in my eyes holding the 4x6 with one hand and holding my wife on top of the same van with the other...it all looked okay from the side!
I didnt know it was this bad! 
Anyways...heres the East side with the droopey end...
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
And the West side...Stop laughing!
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
I told yall I wasnt a carpenter, now I prooved it!
if you follow the West side angle iron, It *looks* like it will be okay.
If youre standing on the side of a van in the back, it *looked* like it was straight.
I blame the boards. Im leaving and may never come back now that ive posted these pics.  
Maybe ill dig those 'used only once' golf clubs outta the attic. Theyre looking pretty sweet right about now.
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
mtber
super member
Reged: 04/05/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Apex, NC
|
|
You might want to scroll through the suggestions that I received about my roll off beam warping. It starts with #2250331. There were a lot of good suggestions for options to use for replacing the beam.
With your situation, I would be concerned that any warping that you see today may get much worse as the summer wears on. If I was doing mine from scratch and had the distenace to span that you do, I think that I would make my own laminate beam.
Good luck,
John
--------------------
12.5" Discovery Truss Dob
CGE 1100 StarBright XLT
WO ZenithStar 80 FD Anniversary Edition
Stellarvue SV66
Desert Sky Astro DSV-1 Alt/Az mount
Nikon 10x50 Action Extreme ATB
Coronado PST
SkyScout
|
John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1253
Loc: AR
|
|
I had no idea that your roof rack would be THAT high. Assumed the ground was fairly level. My obs. was purposely sited so that the roof would roll off over ground that was slightly rising, making the support posts shorter than the height of the side walls (posts are about 4'7" tall). You already have so much invested that you might as well finish correctly. Modern lumber is unreliable, so I made sure to have the steel available before I even started. If I was in your situation, I would invest in some steel I-beams to support the track and attach those to the 6x6 posts. Also a good drill and bits to make holes to attach it. You could then attach a treated 2x4 to the top of the I-beam to carry the rail, and NEVER worry about warpage in the rail. You would still need to brace it, though. Just a suggestion to cut your losses now. How high is the top of the rail at the 6x6 post? How deep is the post in concrete? You might should have used some 25 foot utility poles and cut them off at the top. 
--------------------
?
Observing since 1966
Messier Cert #898
|
o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 1431
Loc: The Big Tomato, California
|
|
The unsupported lengths of 4x6 track bed at the end worry me, even with Y braces and nailing strips at the midway point. I'd feel a lot better with a second set of uprights supporting the ends...Y braces there as well.
The warpage left to right/right to left in the 4x6 track bed is cosmetic and as long as the metal tracks themselves are mounted parallel/straight/level there should be no problem.
I'm by no means a professional and have an admitted tendency to overbuild but at least give it some thought.
--------------------
Kit
"There's only two things that excite a man, expensive toys and real expensive toys." - Red Green
* A bunch of old ATM stuff that cost me next to nothing
* A bunch of new commercial stuff that cost me an arm and a leg
Edited by o1d_dude (06/09/08 03:40 PM)
|
Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 2184
|
|
Yeah....ASCOB....I figured you'd see the humor! Thanks .
Looking at it, I THINK (in hind sight) I would have located the short 6X6 pieces next to the building and let the longer ones span the posts. Then, perhaps a couple braces off the building foeming a 30-60-90 with the 30 low on the building wall. Also a 45-45-90 from the building out horizontal to the shorter 6X6 piece on each side, for horizontal stability. I would then, still, brace the ends of the longer 6X6's on each end, vertically. Again, a couple (4) horizontal 45 degree braces out at the posts as well.
Looking good!! I'd add.....
--------------------
Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
|
David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 6542
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.38 X 90....
|
|
Quote:
I dunno, David... 6" x 6" is some SERIOUS lumber... it should have no trouble spanning 10-12 feet (or more)... I'd be more concerned about the overhang of 6 feet with no support.
Hence the Y bracing requirement
I can't imagine how you lifted those up there, Michael - was it just you and your wife??? 
clear enough skies
It looks like a 2X6 to me. Maybe my old eyeballs are messing with me but when you look at the closeup of the column/runout joint, it sure looks like 2X and not a 6X.
Personally, I'm using a 4X4 for my runout, but it's only 8' long.
Edit: Just read through the rest of the thread. It's a 4X6. We were both off the mark.  However, I do agree that the unsupported overhang could be a problem.
David
--------------------
A few scopes and mounts.
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
Life expectancies would go WAY up if green vegetables smelled like bacon...
Edited by David Pavlich (06/09/08 04:57 PM)
|
John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1253
Loc: AR
|
|
On second thought, maybe you can salvage this by laminating some treated 2x8's or 2x10's along the length of the horizontal beams to tie them all together and straighten them somewhat, and adding some massive braces. Laminated beams (and braces)are almost always better than single ones, and tend to warp less IMO. A beam made of three 2x6's will usually be much stronger than a single 4x6, and maybe not cost much more.
PM Sent
--------------------
?
Observing since 1966
Messier Cert #898
Edited by John Fitzgerald (06/09/08 09:35 PM)
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Hey yall
I left earlier after posting those embarrasing pics and got three 4x6x12's.
We measured from the end board thing that is suppose to stop the roof and found out were only 9'5" from the ground.
We augered out a hole to about 3ft, filled it in with a bag of cement, then put a 4x6x12 with a 4x6 little 'T" attached to it in the hole, poured another bag of concrete and buried it as we used the floor jack (thanks for the suggestions too!) to raise up the 6ft piece that was drooping.
We left the jack in place and are trying to give the 4x6 overnight to get situated before letting the 6ft boards back down.
The 4x6 has nails all in the bottom of it, and its sitting on a hole bag of concrete with another bag on top of that, and tamped seriously into the ground. I dont see it going anywhere, and when we remove the jack, its still going to be about 3-5inches higher than it was.
Well do the same to the other side, but we ran out of light.
Let me know what you think.
Were still going to make 'Y' braces, thats what the other 4x6 is for.
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
That 6ft piece looks alot better now and its alot more stable.
Right?
Were going to run another 2x8 across to the other 4x6x12 we put on the other side that has the same 6ft type piece on it, then brace it all in.
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 1431
Loc: The Big Tomato, California
|
|
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!
Remember the old Chrysler Mopar motto?
"Some is good, more is better, and too much is just enough."
--------------------
Kit
"There's only two things that excite a man, expensive toys and real expensive toys." - Red Green
* A bunch of old ATM stuff that cost me next to nothing
* A bunch of new commercial stuff that cost me an arm and a leg
|
THEPLOUGH
Nailed Again
Reged: 01/11/08
Posts: 3957
Loc: Carlisle, Cumbria, ENGLAND
|
|
LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT.... That is going no where.. Now make that wonderful wife of yours a nice cup of tea and just relax.. Tomorrow is another day....  
--------------------
Geoff...
Nexstar 8SE -- 9X50 RACI Finder scope... 6.3 F/R.-- 13 & 17mm Hyperion EPs.. 25mm Celestron E- Lux EP.. 2X Celestron X-Cel Barlow----- Celestron solar filter + A few bits and pieces..
Never give up on any one..... MIRACLES happen every day....
|
mikey cee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 2326
Loc: bellevue ne.
|
|
This post like so many others is exactly why I won't use that treated garbage on anything I own! My rails are all steel with steel angle iron fit at 45° brackets underneath. No sag no twist no splitting!  Mike
--------------------
Mike 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957).
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Thanks alot yall!
i couldnt wait to see what others thought, then we have a major thunderstorm lastnight and all the power goes out. it was so bad once the power came back on there was no way I was turning this computer on.
Depending on how bad the weather is by the time the wife gets home, were going to put the other 4x6x12 up on the other side and then run a 2x8x12 between them, like we did on the 6x6 posts, then brace them all in with Y bracing and any little metal bracing pieces we can fit somewhere. 
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
DeanS
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 505
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
|
|
Pier looks great Michael!
Hope you are happy with it.
Dean
--------------------
8" LX200gps
AP1200GTO Mach1GTO
FS-60C Tak E160 C9.25
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Hey yall.
Had a busy day with my second day of teaching 1st grade, shopping, and everything else a house*person doesnt get credit for.
The wife and I put up our other 4x6x12 earlier to brace the ugly 6ft piece hanging off the West side end.
We would of done more but I promised to cut the grass and once the kids are fed, cleaned, and put in bed, its dark out!
Thanks, Dean. I like the pier alot. I got some stuff to clean it up and paint it, Im just waiting on a slow day to tackle it.
Quote:
This post like so many others is exactly why I won't use that treated garbage on anything I own! My rails are all steel with steel angle iron fit at 45° brackets underneath. No sag no twist no splitting!
Well, live & learn I guess. Ive never built anything besides a fence, and the wood worked great for that.
I wish I had the money for all steel, It would have seriously been considered if so.
I tried to run back out just now and take a pic, hopefully itll show up.
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
These shots are standing at the west side with the floor jack thingie now moved to the other side.
The post is buried about 3ft deep, with nails in all sides of the bottom foot, and concrete under and all around it.
You can see the East side that was fixed yesterday peeking around the side at ya too!
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
[Re: 
Edit
Reply
Quote
