Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Hey yall.
The pier BYO has seems to be 8"x8" and you can choose the height you want.
Since I dont know what Ill be doing in the future, or what Ill be buying, do you think 8x8 will be big enough to accomodate a large scope, or could it be too big for a smaller scope?
Say for instance, the 8" Vixen R200SS, would a 8x8" be big enough for that scope, or one day a 11 or 12"?
Ill probaly only get once shot at this, so Im hoping to get 'one size that will fit all'.
What do ya think?
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28619
Loc: montana
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Contact Scott Horstman (BYO) for pier ideas & pricing.
There are others also, whatever would fit best with your needs & budget.
Carol
Dang, Carol, but you are FAST... beat me by 60 seconds!
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
|
DeanS
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 505
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
|
|
Depends on how you do the top plate of the pier. I did both of mine with 12" x 12" square plates to bolt my mount to. This is fine with the AP1200 but with the Mach1GTO it is too large so I will be making it smaller.
So for the time being I am using the G11 tripod after unbolting the pier and moving it out of the way. I also plan on putting the 1200 where the Mach1 was and will be swapping piers as well. See how nice total flexibilty is?? 
--------------------
8" LX200gps
AP1200GTO Mach1GTO
FS-60C Tak E160 C9.25
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
|
Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2992
Loc: Bolton, MA
|
|
Quote:
Hey yall.
The pier BYO has seems to be 8"x8" and you can choose the height you want.
Since I dont know what Ill be doing in the future, or what Ill be buying, do you think 8x8 will be big enough to accomodate a large scope, or could it be too big for a smaller scope?
Say for instance, the 8" Vixen R200SS, would a 8x8" be big enough for that scope, or one day a 11 or 12"?
Ill probaly only get once shot at this, so Im hoping to get 'one size that will fit all'.
What do ya think?
This should answer your question on it:
Piece of CAKE - this is currently an 8" SN and and 80mm TMB plus a bunch of hardware, eventually I'll be up to about 60# of load, 60# of CW and 45# of mount
No sweat!
Ultimately it'll be a C11 with Hyperstar... And eventually an AP900GTO mount (when I come up - again)...
Clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
Edited by Bowmoreman (05/14/08 04:06 PM)
|
Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2992
Loc: Bolton, MA
|
|
Oh, one more thing: you don't only get one shot at this... If you make sure your J-bolts are put in the pier concrete such that you can bolt whatever pier you select to them, you can always change piers later if you REALLY had to.
All you'd do would be to unbolt the pier, bolt on some type of 3/4 or 1" thick steel plate with holes for the existing J-bolts, and other bolt holds for the new pier, and viola...
New Pier - no muss, no fuss...
But this 8" er is plenty solid and strong... Not sure I'm put a Paramount on it, but then ifn I had $12K for a Paramount, I'd have Scott come out and build me a MUCH bigger obs from scratch too!
clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Dave, I know you thought that would help me but did you forget im not too bright?  
What exactly is that meaning, and what on Earth am I looking at there? Is that a bunch of stuff on the pier from BYO showing me that a ton of stuff can go on it?
Im sorry, im just kinda confused.
Quote:
Depends on how you do the top plate of the pier. I did both of mine with 12" x 12" square plates to bolt my mount to. This is fine with the AP1200 but with the Mach1GTO it is too large so I will be making it smaller.
Dean, If I bought a pier like the one from BYO can I just swap out mounts, to be big enough or small enough for what I need?
I dont think Ill be doing the sonotube pier, just a 2x2' slab like you said that I can attacah a pier too, so will that give me a little more flexibility, or are you saying youre having to swap out piers for the Mach1 (whatever that is  )?
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2992
Loc: Bolton, MA
|
|
I'll walk ya through it!
1) The Pier top plate can be seen on the bottom Left; its the black square held up by the sliver bolt (going through those twisted red/black wires). In fact those red/black wires are going to/from an AC/DC converter that I've mounted between the top of the pier and the top pier plate (there's about a 4" gap there where the whole thing is held up by four massive bolts (only one of which was in that picture).
2) on that is the CGE Mount pier (has the orange band around it near the top of the mount pier part) Then the mount itself moving upwards
3) the scope is canted 90degrees to the right (so the rolloff roof can open/close
In the picture I'm attaching here, you can see my OLD rig, with much of the pier. This was one day after Scott built my BYO. (and my two boys!) The key points are:
1) Pier bolts to J-bolts set in concrete (not shown here)
2) then at the top, pier bolts with separate bolts to a pier plate, then your mount either directly to the pier plate, or to a pier plate adapter
3) both ends can be adjusted to precisely level things
My other point from the other post was that you could always bolt a new plate at the BOTTOM between the J-bolts - which are as permanent as your concrete is - and your new pier...
That's called an Adapter Plate.
When I converted from my old setup to my new one, all I needed was a new adapter plate for the TOP pier plate...
This is the beauty of Steel piers - they are modular.
Hopefully this clarifies things!
clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Thanks alot, Dave!
The walkthrough did the thing. Handsome little men ya got there! They must in awe of such a big contraption!
Quote:
Pier bolts to J-bolts set in concrete (not shown here)
Silly question i think ive had answered before.
I dont have to set those 'j bolts' right now, right?
I plan on building the slab for the pier to sit on, and sometime in the future attaching a pier, it may not be for another year or so the way things are going for me now.
I can just drill into the slab at the time and attach a pier, right? Seems like someone told me it would be fine but im having a tough time getting it stright right this minute.
I dont know when Ill end up doing AI, it could be a long time, I really dont know. I just want to have the concrete ready if and when I do. Ya know?
The thought of my awkward clumsy-self tripping around trying to miss big bolts sticking out of the ground for a year or more sounds bad. Trust me, im doing good walking.
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2992
Loc: Bolton, MA
|
|
Quote:
Thanks alot, Dave!
The walkthrough did the thing. Handsome little men ya got there! They must in awe of such a big contraption!
Quote:
Pier bolts to J-bolts set in concrete (not shown here)
Silly question i think ive had answered before.
I dont have to set those 'j bolts' right now, right?
I plan on building the slab for the pier to sit on, and sometime in the future attaching a pier, it may not be for another year or so the way things are going for me now.
I can just drill into the slab at the time and attach a pier, right? Seems like someone told me it would be fine but im having a tough time getting it stright right this minute.
I dont know when Ill end up doing AI, it could be a long time, I really dont know. I just want to have the concrete ready if and when I do. Ya know?
The thought of my awkward clumsy-self tripping around trying to miss big bolts sticking out of the ground for a year or more sounds bad. Trust me, im doing good walking.
Thanks, the boy get there looks from the better half, TRUST me on THAT one!
Ya don't have to set them at the time you pour the concrete, but it is IMO the best way to go. You CAN drill them in later, but it will not be as solid. Here's what I would do:
1) pour the foundation for the pier such that it is BELOW the grade/level of the wood floor of your obs
2) have the J bolts inserted - at that time, and protruding such that they don't come up above the level of the floor - that way there's no trip hazard!
3) put a piece of plywood over it until when it is time to bolt on a pier... easy peasy!
This gives you the most solidity, but no trip hazard...
Make sense?
clear enough skies!
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
|
jgw12936
sage
Reged: 03/28/07
Posts: 353
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
|
|
I have a steel pier from Le Sueur Astropier. I love the pier, but I'm not sure I would recommend them because to change out the pier tops for different mounts gets very expensive. The Pier is very well built, but I was dissapointed with the pier top.
If you go to their website they do have a good diagram for pouring a footing and sinking the j-bolts.....take a look here.
Le Sueur Installation diagram
--------------------
Jim
C11 XLT
APM/TMB 80/480
AP 130 f6
Mach1GTO
Starlight Xpress SXVF-M25C
Starlight Xpress SXV-H9
Edited by jgw12936 (05/15/08 11:40 AM)
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Hey yall.
Jim, that yard around your pier looks like so much fun to relax in. Very nice. And thanks for the link.
Im trying to decide which to do next. ive found a comppany the next town over that has 12", 14", and 16" sonotube and I cant decide if I should go that route, or just build a big 2'x2' square and leave it at that until the time comes to figure out what im going to put on it.
Dave, I worry about setting J bolts now, because I have no idea what mount or anything will take shape down the road.
I cant find out whether or not J bolt placement is universal for all mounts/piers, etc.
Setting J bolts in now when I dont know what Ill eventually buy could be a disaster unless the placement of J bolts is universal. Im trying to figure that one out.
Others have said just build the 2x2' square, and you can drill sleeve anchors down the road and it will be stable enough.
*sigh...
I swear id almost like to just say the heck with this, and finish the building for my dob, but then down the road id be stuck tearing up floor and trying to dig in the space ive allowed for my stumpy body, that just sounds horrible.
After that dob slab, the thought of doing another one just a little smaller makes me feel ill.
That was rough!
And since it will be raining til God knows when, Im stuck just staring at my unfinished obs from the window.
*sniff, Sniff...
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2992
Loc: Bolton, MA
|
|
Quote:
I have a steel pier from Le Sueur Astropier. I love the pier, but I'm not sure I would recommend them because to change out the pier tops for different mounts gets very expensive. The Pier is very well built, but I was dissapointed with the pier top.
If you go to their website they do have a good diagram for pouring a footing and sinking the j-bolts.....take a look here.
Le Sueur Installation diagram
Changing pier plate adapters doesn't have to be expensive... I was able to make my change for $178 plus shipping...
If you don't know - at the time you are building your pier - what your ultimate scope/mount is going to be, I frankly think that Steel is the only sensible approach.
Otherwise you run the risk of your pier deciding what mounts you can/cannot use... who wants that?
In the case of BYO's Big Bear Piers, they come standard to fit Meade's LX series (I believe), and there are many, cost effective adapters available that can then convert to whatever you might need (in my case it was CGE).
Checkout Dan's Pier Plates They carry a wide array of conversion stuffs at reasonable prices and very high quality.
I stick with my recommendation for the BYO Big Bear Pier; highly cost-effective, beautifully made; and in conjunction with Dan's Pier Plates, highly modular and investment-protected.
Yes, Steel is more expensive than concrete; but again, if you don't know what your mount/scope is GOING to be, how can you decide how to make the concrete pier (what happens it you make it too tall for instance!)...
Concrete is forever, Steel is modular, and replaceable!
My 
clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
|
jgw12936
sage
Reged: 03/28/07
Posts: 353
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
|
|
I agree with Dave, I like the steel pier because it is something I can move or alter if needed. Dan's Pier top plates plus the BYO pier sounds like the way to go, much more cost effective than the Le Sueur from what I can see. When I wanted to change my pier top from a CG5 to a top for a different mount they wanted $500+, too much in my opinion. My solution was to buy a $80 adapter from AP and bolt it to the top of my CG5 adapter. Works like a charm, another benefit to steel I suppose...
--------------------
Jim
C11 XLT
APM/TMB 80/480
AP 130 f6
Mach1GTO
Starlight Xpress SXVF-M25C
Starlight Xpress SXV-H9
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Thanks, Dave.
BYO doesnt sell the Big Bear right now. Theyve got the Omega one and Two. Diane said they may sell it again at another time, but they dont right now.
Yeah...I think the steel may be the smartest way for me to go. I wish i could just finish building and read my 'New CCD astronomer' book in between but the thought of trying to pour more concrete and digging a big ole hole inside an already build structure sounds awful.
*sigh...
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2992
Loc: Bolton, MA
|
|
Michael!
My copy of that book is already so worn you wouldn't believe it, and its only about a year old!
Keep on workin' you'll get r done, and believe me it is great to have your own observatory! 
clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
|
Joel
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/08/04
Posts: 2329
Loc: Merrimack, NH
|
|
If you think you may use a dob and not a pier sometime you can still get the pier and set the j bolts. The dob you use may be able to sit on a platform over the bolts or in between them if you removed the pier.
I got a Leseur pier also but they're pricey. My pier plate will work with many mounts (so they tell me) because it has multiple hole combinations drilled in it.
I really don't worry a great deal about the expense of changing my pier plate though if and when I change mounts because I'd probably go with an AP or Paramount and a plate is a small expense in comparison.
--------------------
Joel
10" LX200GPS UHTC-SMT
Vixen 80EDsf
Canon unmodded 350D
QHY8
Turkey Hill Observatory
|
1965healey
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2844
Loc: San Antonio, TX
|
|
Check with Diane again @ BYO if the piers they're selling are the ones that Donny builds; if they are then you can't go wrong with one. Donny built my pier and it's a work of art.
--------------------
1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Celestron Omni 150 XLT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
|
WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
|
|
Thanks alot, yall.
The 14 or 16" sonotube sure would be cheaper, but I like the idea of not being stuck.
Being able to undo my pier and replace or totally scrap it sounds like the smartest way to go.
I will check with BYO Karen about their piers. The 'Omega 2' sounds awesome, its got a GFI and a 12v plug thingie.
They seem like such good people I just want to give them any business I can, ya know? I think Scott and Diane have done more than enough to help someone like me.
Ok, so i build my slab and then add anchor bolts. I just noticed that the link Dave gave me for 'Dans pier plates' has several different sizes. Hes showing 8" pier plates, but at the bottom he shows anchor bolts you can buy and says the ones hes showing are only for the 8" plates, the 12" plates use bigger anchor bolts.
So....which ones would I choose not having any idea what scope or mount ill be using one day?
Im sorry for being so ignorant about the whole subject, yall.
I wanted to plan for the future but didnt realize all that would be required for me to know in advance.
If I get the 12" anchor bolts, and end up only being able to afford a smaller scope and mount, is it as simple as boring the holes out?
Id have to go big not knowing what the future holds, in case I got a bigger mount/scope/pier and wasnt able to attach it to smaller bolts, right?
Argh!
Im trying to figure this out, I need to order a door, i cant find iron angle anywhere around me...now you see why I dont get paid much for thinking!
--------------------
Sleep is the Cousin of Death
|
John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1253
Loc: AR
|
|
Quote:
I wish i could just finish building and read my 'New CCD astronomer' book in between but the thought of trying to pour more concrete and digging a big ole hole inside an already build structure sounds awful.
*sigh...
These observatory projects can get old quickly and not be fun any more, as mine has. I just want it to be done soon.
--------------------
?
Observing since 1966
Messier Cert #898
|
Bowmoreman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 2992
Loc: Bolton, MA
|
|
Quote:
Thanks alot, yall.
The 14 or 16" sonotube sure would be cheaper, but I like the idea of not being stuck.
Being able to undo my pier and replace or totally scrap it sounds like the smartest way to go.
I will check with BYO Karen about their piers. The 'Omega 2' sounds awesome, its got a GFI and a 12v plug thingie.
They seem like such good people I just want to give them any business I can, ya know? I think Scott and Diane have done more than enough to help someone like me.
Ok, so i build my slab and then add anchor bolts. I just noticed that the link Dave gave me for 'Dans pier plates' has several different sizes. Hes showing 8" pier plates, but at the bottom he shows anchor bolts you can buy and says the ones hes showing are only for the 8" plates, the 12" plates use bigger anchor bolts.
So....which ones would I choose not having any idea what scope or mount ill be using one day?
Im sorry for being so ignorant about the whole subject, yall.
I wanted to plan for the future but didnt realize all that would be required for me to know in advance.
If I get the 12" anchor bolts, and end up only being able to afford a smaller scope and mount, is it as simple as boring the holes out?
Id have to go big not knowing what the future holds, in case I got a bigger mount/scope/pier and wasnt able to attach it to smaller bolts, right?
Argh!
Im trying to figure this out, I need to order a door, i cant find iron angle anywhere around me...now you see why I dont get paid much for thinking!
Deep, cleansing breaths, Michael!
Seriously, I really doubt that you're likely to need a pier bigger than 8" (yes, it is possible to find mounts that cannot work on 8" piers - but they are HUGE $$$ - that's the over $10K mount range!)...
An 8" pier (w/ associated HW) will easily handle CGE's or up to AP900's and scope loads of well beyond 80#... Dude, if you're thinking of future proofing at/beyond that level, well then redoing everything is only an issue of "spending money" anyways...
As far as the J bolts (and their associated template), I would decide on which Pier system you were leaning towards, and just set the J bolts for that one today. If it later turns out that isn't the pier/pattern that fits the bolts, it is easy enough to just get a steel plate with two sets of holes - one to bolt to the "cast in concrete J bolts" below, and another that can take regular bolts in whatever patter the new pier (above) would require...
its just bolting stuff together at that point. Again, modularity is your friend.
Until you've picked a mount, don't worry about Dan's Pier Plates... my point there was twofold: once you do pick a mount, its easy to find an adapter to convert your piers top plate to your mount (#1), and (#2) it isn't all that expensive to do so...
Pouring concrete in a Sonotube, requires you to know (at the time you are pouring):
1) exactly how high things need to be (and hence what your mount is), and
2) what your mount is (to set the right J bolts)
And then you can NEVER change! (cause its concrete and re-bar)... IMO: save the concrete for the parts you can't see! (the part that holds UP the steel pier that is!)
Hope this helps!
clear enough skies
--------------------
Dave
Ustream
YLive
XT10i, RTP, CGE, R200CF, TMB80SS
31T5, 22T4, 13Ethos, 8Ethos, TV 3-6 Zoom; Paracorr
MallincamColorHyperPlus,SBIG STV&237A;CanonRebel Xti
WilderSkiesObservatory(BYO #90)
|
|
3 registered and 4 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Chris Schroeder, csa/montana
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 15151
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
[Re: 
Edit
Reply
Quote
