WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Hey yall!
Sorry ive been away. AT&T somehow cut our lines down the road somewhere and we lost all phones and dsl until today.
The guy was in the backyard looking for the phone line and came back around front to ask if I knew there was a big ole black widow sitting in a web right where he needed to be. 
I told him my story of finding 5 or 6 (6 or 7 now) and showed him the remains of three in a bug jar.
Okay, so we started on the obs Sunday.
After all the wondering I did about which size to choose, we settled on the 11x6 that we had plans for since neither one of us knew anything about carpentry.
I couldnt even put the boys powered Jeep thingie together without a small pile of left over parts that should not have been, and a dozen bandaids.
We wanted to go bigger, but kept running into trouble with local lumber outlets not having bigger lengths of wood.
They said 'you can do it, we can help', but I think they were secretly laughing at me and snickering on a security monitor somewhere in the back. 
So.
I showed you all our little staked out square I think...
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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We then set our posts about 3ft. deep, put nails in them about 4 inches from the bottom to give the concrete something to grab onto, and concreted them into the ground, making sure they stayed level and even.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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...all of them set and level...
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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oldsalt
Astro Philosopher
Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 7958
Loc: Pa - between starparties
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You are off to a great start. Keep the photos and commentary coming.
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WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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...then we had from 6:30 in the morning to 6 at night at the Cinncinnatti Childrens Hospital monday and couldnt do anything all day (4 finger snaps, 2 sets of labs, a GNT with Diff that required dye injected into the top of the hand, CT scan, Liver, kidney and Prograf panels, and a physical all while neither child could eat all day long-phew!)
So today we started again and man have things changed.
We made sure everything was level, that from corner to corner we were 16'3", and all posts were straight and true.
Today when we start again everything has become off somehow, now that the concrete is hard and set.
Were a half inch off on the North wall now, instead of 11'6" on the south side (like we made sure of!) we are now about 11' 7 inches.
From corner to corner we are now 16' 4".
What happened?! Everything was perfect and then today its all out of whack!
Needless to say, we did the best we could.
Ive barely operated a hammer before we did the fence so carpentry is not my strong suit, but dang, I didnt think it could be this off!
Did the ground settle, boards shrink, warp?
I dont understand it.
Anyway...since theres not much we can do about it now, we kept going.
Worst case scenario we think the floor might be a little off, but since my pier and concrete slab for my dob will be seperate and isolated, as long as they are right well be okay. Right?
So today we attached the 2x8's except they didnt sit like the plans said they would.
We started cutting the 2x8x12's down to 11'x3" when we noticed after four cuts they were not lining up perfectly like they were the other day! 
So what we did was take thge 2x8x12 to the posts, make them level, and then cut them to fit. Whats wrong with that?
I dont know how it went all bad and hesitated to show our shortcomings here out of embarrassment.
So I think at this point were kinda stuck moving forward with whats already been done, or declare that portion of the yard a hazard and just turn the dob into a big beer cooler.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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That dog thinks hes gotta be in every shot!
This one has no dog in the background, but shows what looks like the posts and the 2x8's lining up pretty well.
Any ideas what went wrong? Will it really matter?
Can whatever minor problems spring up be fixed with a shim or something? Create one weird sitting wall on that side or something?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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oldsalt
Astro Philosopher
Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 7958
Loc: Pa - between starparties
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Check your measurements cross corner to check for square. Then check the level of the 2x8's. You can fudge things a little to get back in square, but level needs to be.
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28619
Loc: montana
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Don't get discouraged! You are coming along just great. And keep the pictures coming!
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Manny Myles
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 2331
Loc: Flatlandia
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Measuring from corner to corner you can still be out of square,,, been there done that.
If you can strip the frame off and notch the posts you might be able to recover.
I'd still notch the posts and use them to support the framework any way, there will be a lot of weight on the frame using just nails to support it all and notch it now would save work later.
I would also be setting some more posts on the ends where there are none, you wan this to be around a long time without it sagging 'eh?
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1253
Loc: AR
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I have had a few "do-overs" on mine also due to my friend and frequent observing companion (who is also an AIA architect) noticing and offering good advice. Don't get too discouraged. Sketch out everything in advance.
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?
Observing since 1966
Messier Cert #898
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 4833
Loc: Wherever the boss sends me.
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Quote:
Measuring from corner to corner you can still be out of square,
The trick is to make sure you have the SAME measurement corner to corner 
Quote:
I'd still notch the posts and use them to support the framework any way, there will be a lot of weight on the frame using just nails to support it
The posts are flush with the tops of the 2x8 band boards. the walls are ridgid when they are plywooded. The posts will bear the weight of the structure. I'm sure Michael will be using lag bolts/screws as well.
If you're a little out of square it's not the end of the world by any means. The really important thing is that the 2 walls that carry the rollers are paralell. You need to have the same measurement at both ends of the building. Make sure the wall plates are cut the same and you'll have no worries there either.
It's also more critical that the support posts (out riggers) are straight with the top of the walls rather than level. If the building itself happens to be a fuzz out of level just keep it straight with the walls. We build on slabs often that aren't level. The roof will function perfectly.
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Scott.
My Gallery
12.5" f/8 EQ w/Byers gears
178ED/LXD750
102ED
100mm f/13 Carton refractor
PST
DSI, ST7
www.backyardobservatories.com
www.m1OASYS.com
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WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Quote:
If you can strip the frame off and notch the posts you might be able to recover.
I'd still notch the posts and use them to support the framework any way, there will be a lot of weight on the frame using just nails to support it all and notch it now would save work later.
What do you mean by 'notch'?
Quote:
I would also be setting some more posts on the ends where there are none, you wan this to be around a long time without it sagging 'eh?
I wondered about that myself. The plans did not call for another post anywhere so we assumed it would be okay.
Quote:
The posts are flush with the tops of the 2x8 band boards. the walls are ridgid when they are plywooded. The posts will bear the weight of the structure. I'm sure Michael will be using lag bolts/screws as well.
Well...one is not flush with the 2x8. I dont know how it happened. Everything was perfect and we decided to stop since it all lined up then come back.
When we came back yesterday, everything seemed a little bit off.
Do you think we could just cut off the little bit above the 2x8 on the one post and be okay?
I hesitated to cut it off because on sunday it was all perfect and I was worried that it might throw the whole floor off now.
Heres a shot.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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In the pic above you can see the yellow tamping bar thingie, about where its at, in the middle of that 2x8 is where we thought about dropping another post in.
Heres a better shot of that post.
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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Scott Horstman
Vendor- Backyard Observatories
Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 4833
Loc: Wherever the boss sends me.
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You'll need to cut that down unless the 2x8 needs lifted up to be straight.
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Scott.
My Gallery
12.5" f/8 EQ w/Byers gears
178ED/LXD750
102ED
100mm f/13 Carton refractor
PST
DSI, ST7
www.backyardobservatories.com
www.m1OASYS.com
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mikey cee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 2326
Loc: bellevue ne.
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If your opposite sides are identical in length....then your diagonals will be dead even if you are dead square. You can also use the 3'x4'=5' rule to square it. But the sides must be absolutely straight and not bowed in or out.  Mike
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Mike 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957).
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oldsalt
Astro Philosopher
Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 7958
Loc: Pa - between starparties
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Something they forgot to tell you is to also check the crown( Curve) of the 2x8's so they are in the same direction . The rear 2x8 looks to curve like a saucer(Crown down) in the picture. of course it could just be the way the picture is taken. For a deck plate , i usually like to put the crown up. all the crowns should go the same direction, and can be established by sighting down the board before installation. Mark them with and 'X' , make the job easier.
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 2184
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Ok, well lets keep in mind there will be some floor joists going in to support the deck, so when the deck goes on, if the floor boards are allowed to overhang the outside edge of the frame, they will be able to be trimmed in order to achieve a square cornered square all around.
That said, and I know I'm a bit late on the uptake, but perhaps the next guy might be able to use the information in this picture before they start to build on a slope.
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Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28619
Loc: montana
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Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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DeanS
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 505
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
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Your off to a good start. Remember that the mark of a good craftsman is not IF you make a mistake, but how well you recover from it and make it look like it was done that way on purpose 
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8" LX200gps
AP1200GTO Mach1GTO
FS-60C Tak E160 C9.25
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
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WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Thanks yall.
Despite being off here and there, the wife believes we can overcome whatever went wrong.
I gotta put my faith in her. Shes never let me down yet.
I anchored the 2x8's with 4" lag screws and am ready to start on a hole, but im stuck trying to figure out what goes where.
I want a concreted pier for down the road and I want a concrete square to set the dob on. I know I should have went bigger but 12" boards seem to be all I can have here in corn-pole ville.
Scott showed a pic of a bricked in concrete square staggered from the concreted pier area, neither was dead in the middle.
I took a pic and want to see what people think about the lay out idea.
I thought about making my concrete square for the dob 25 1/2", and the pier thingie 12-14".
In this pic were standing at the south wall (which will be lower) with the dob just inside to the right, and the pier back towards the left.
The squares arent straight or anything, just some scrap wood I put together to get an idea of what the setting might look like.
What do ya think? Too close?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28619
Loc: montana
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It looks to me that your Dob square is too close to what will be the wall. 
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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WidowMaker
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/29/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Frankfort, Ky
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Carol, do you think its still too close with that being the south wall that drops down to 3'?
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Sleep is the Cousin of Death
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28619
Loc: montana
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Measure the length of your scope that would be at the angle of the drop-down. Take into consideration of upgrading to a larger size, also 
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Bob Griffiths
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 4187
Loc: Frederick Maryland
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Take a couple of 2x4's and screw then upright to the Bam Boards aboiut 5-6 foot apart and grab an old blanket and staple it to the 2x'4... 3 foot up from where your floor will be.. Then grab a card table and place it where you think the Dob should be placed then set to dob on the table (carefully) get a ladder and play with the scope to see how a 3" wall will work.. you can easily pull the blanket off the 2x4's and reset it at 4 foot etc...
IF your neighbors see you doing this ...well..enough said
Bob G.
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CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W
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Manny Myles
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 2331
Loc: Flatlandia
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To notch the post is to make a 1-1/2" cut both across and vertically the width and length of the post so the 2x8 rests on the post itself not hanging by the nails,
Easy to do with your new saw
Then nail or thru bolt it to the posts.
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1253
Loc: AR
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I made mine 16x16 feet in order to have walls and roof at reasonable height and still be able to see over them to a reasonably low angle with a Dob. It also leaves room for a 2x4 foot table and a couple of chairs and shelves. IMO you will wish you had made it larger. It's not too late to enlarge at this point. All our local lumber yards carry 16 foot lumber, a couple even have 24 footers. Try another lumber dealer.
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?
Observing since 1966
Messier Cert #898
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mikey cee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 2326
Loc: bellevue ne.
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I'm still wondering if you aren't short changing yourself on that 6' dimension. I'd re think it. Now is the time as altering will be much easier. It is going to be tight in there once the thickness of the walls is taken into account. You are already seeing the problems beginning to arise. The extra cost is really just peanuts. You save a buck only once but the mistake will haunt you forever!  Mike
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Mike 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957).
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Mel M
member
Reged: 05/04/08
Posts: 19
Loc: southern Oregon
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It must be like the shops and garages we build. We seldom say we have too much room.
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NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 12070
Loc: Rockford Illinois
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