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AstroRealtor
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/26/08
Posts: 538
Loc: Terra Firma
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What kind of binos should I have to learn the constellations in the night sky with? Should I get a really big pair? Or; should I get something more like opera glasses? Should I mount them on some kind of binocular mount? Or; is it better to just point them at night sky objects randomly without any kind of repeatable guidance like a telescope has?
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Clear Skies, Jim
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Discovering: Messier objects, Deep sky treasures, NGCs, Double stars, & Nebulae of all kinds.
Televue 85 "Polaris" Mount
Custom Crafted Newtonian Dob 8" f7 w/Feathertouch
Celestron Cometron Reflector 114mm f8
Zeiss Diafun 8 X 30 Binos
Zeiss 10 X 56 Binos
 Aldrich Astronomical Society
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Bubbinski
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/18/05
Posts: 850
Loc: 40.56 N 111.96 W - Utah
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I used a pair of Orion 10x50 Outsiders to learn the sky, learn the constellations, and help with star hopping. They were handheld...I tried them on a tripod and didn't like doing that. Your Zeiss 10x56 binos listed in the signature ought to be just fine for doing that.
Edit: Also a wide field of view is very helpful for this. My Outsiders (before they broke) had a 6 - 7 deg field of view. As I understand it, big binos (say, 20x80's) would have a FOV of something like 2.5-3 degrees, which wouldn't be as helpful in my opinion. The Outsiders combined with star charts really helped me to get to know the sky.
Justin
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Orion Skyquest XT 4.5, 90 mm Mak, ST 80, 11x56 Garrett Geminis
5/6/9/10/12.5/15/17/20/25/30/32 mm EP's (TMB, Highlight, Expanse, Sirius, Paul Rini), 2x Shorty Plus, 3x Tri-Mag barlows
106 Messiers Observed Since Spring 2005
Edited by Bubbinski (05/12/08 03:26 PM)
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AstroRealtor
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/26/08
Posts: 538
Loc: Terra Firma
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I have the Zeiss 10 X 56 binos that I mounted to a tripod and a parallelogram mount. These have nearly a 7 degree field. I am now considering another pair of binos that aren't so heavy to keep in my car for quick views. A lighter pair of binos that might not need to be mounted and still give good crisp images is on my wish list. I would like to hear what others have found helpful in learning the night sky.
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Clear Skies, Jim
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Discovering: Messier objects, Deep sky treasures, NGCs, Double stars, & Nebulae of all kinds.
Televue 85 "Polaris" Mount
Custom Crafted Newtonian Dob 8" f7 w/Feathertouch
Celestron Cometron Reflector 114mm f8
Zeiss Diafun 8 X 30 Binos
Zeiss 10 X 56 Binos
Aldrich Astronomical Society
Edited by AstroRealtor (05/12/08 03:37 PM)
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Protheus
Vaguely offended
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 4491
Loc: Illinois, US
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I'd say -- after doing some astronomy with binoculars of a few different sizes -- that 10x50 is a really good all-around pair of binoculars. There is enough aperture to actually see many interesting things that won't show up in my 35s, for example, and they can be hand-held easily for long periods. Contrast that last bit with my 15x70s, where they can be held, but not for too long. 7x magnification is enough, and 15x is a little too much -- again -- to be held in the hand for an extended period.
Wide fields are good. Tripod mounts are good. A simple steel l-bracket ought to do it for most small to medium binoculars. I have a heavy tripod that I use for my spotting scope and my 90mm Mak when I want an alt/az setup. It has alt/az "setting circle" like markings on both axes. You can probably get something like that pretty easily if you want them, though I haven't ever used them even with the scope.
Chris
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"To tread the sharp edge of a sword;
to run on smooth-frozen ice,
one needs no footsteps to follow..."
"Well, people sometimes ask me 'how did you get involved in astronomy?' I said 'I got born, what's your problem?'" -- John Dobson
"In discussing the large-scale structure of the cosmos, astronomers sometimes say that space is curved, or that the universe is finite but unbounded. Whatever are they talking about?" -- Carl Sagan
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SteveE
super member
Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 164
Loc: La Louisiane, USA
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Astro, I own 3 different binos: Pentax 8X40 PCF WP II; Pentax 10X50 PCF WP II; Oberwerk 15X70 Ultra Series. I have a parallelogram mount for the 15X70s. So far, in these early months with this hobby, the 10X50s and 8X40s are used hand held for scanning the sky in order to learn or to quickly find something not visible to the naked eye. The parallelogram is for stopping to smell the roses, much like a telescope. The 10X50s are a great compromise between magnification and steadiness of image but they are nowhere near as steady as the 8X40s. The 10X50s were the first pair I bought with the intention of having something hand held with a decent fov and a bit more magnification. I bought the 8X40s for my elementary school students and their small hands though I find that I like to use them sometimes, too. Pressure me into a recommendation and I'd say the 10X50s but the wise thing might be to try them out first.
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SteveE
SV102ED/Sirius EQ-G goto/SV M3
Orion XT10i
Oberwerk 15X70 Ultras/Pentax PCF II 10X50
Orion Paragon Plus tripod/parallelogram
Lots of smaller stuff for the kids
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5280
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Quote:
What kind of binos should I have to learn the constellations in the night sky with? Should I get a really big pair? Or; should I get something more like opera glasses? Should I mount them on some kind of binocular mount? Or; is it better to just point them at night sky objects randomly without any kind of repeatable guidance like a telescope has?
To learn the constellations all you need to do is have a planisphere and look up. Constellations are very large features in the night sky.
To see deep sky objects I believe a telescope is the best way to "learn the sky". Why? Because binoculars are usually too low in magnification. I suggest getting a nice 6" or 8" Dob and joining a local astronomy club.
Binoculars are fun and I think are better after you "know the sky".
Clear skies,
Rich
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Snaproll
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/20/04
Posts: 3434
Loc: Wisconsin
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Jim, I've had all kinds of binocs. My favorite by far are image stabilized Canon 10X42's. These are nice because they are relatively light compared to 80mm-100mm binocs so they can be hand held for reasonable periods of time. With the IS feature they are as good as tripod mounted. When you get into big straight through binocs, they need to be tripod mounted or with a parallel bar kind of mount. Still for looking towards the zenith it gets awkward. hand holding straight through binocs, especially something in the 80-100mm range gets tiring very quick, they are heavy!
There are astro binos that have 45 degree eyepiece offsets that are nice. These make it much more user friendly to view near the zenith.
I was pretty impressed with the Canon 10X30 IS binocs, they were running around $300. I was so impressed with the technology that I sent them back and got the 10X42 L series. Those are quite a bit more costly but the glass is excellent and they are waterproof. They are heavier than standard 8X40 type binocs because of the IS mechanism, but they are much easier to handle than 50mm+ binocs.
Also another thing Jim, there is a bino forum, if might get a little more traffic on it. If you would like me to move it, let me know.
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-Jim-
Happiness is a clear sky and a Denk II
old AP images and some new C14 Hyperstar images
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Protheus
Vaguely offended
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 4491
Loc: Illinois, US
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Quote:
I was pretty impressed with the Canon 10X30 IS binocs, they were running around $300. I was so impressed with the technology that I sent them back and got the 10X42 L series. Those are quite a bit more costly but the glass is excellent and they are waterproof. They are heavier than standard 8X40 type binocs because of the IS mechanism, but they are much easier to handle than 50mm+ binocs.
Hey Jim, how did you like the 30mm IS binoculars with regard to resolution for astronomical objects? I found it difficult to view the beehive the other night, relatively speaking, in my 7x32mm binoculars compared to a set of 10x50s, for example. Of course, seeing wasn't great, and you know how bad my sky is around here, but just the same, what kind of performance difference did you see switching from the 30mm up to a 50mm, or your 42mm, for example? In other words, they're certainly going to be lighter, but how would you say they compare visually?
Chris
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"To tread the sharp edge of a sword;
to run on smooth-frozen ice,
one needs no footsteps to follow..."
"Well, people sometimes ask me 'how did you get involved in astronomy?' I said 'I got born, what's your problem?'" -- John Dobson
"In discussing the large-scale structure of the cosmos, astronomers sometimes say that space is curved, or that the universe is finite but unbounded. Whatever are they talking about?" -- Carl Sagan
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Snaproll
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/20/04
Posts: 3434
Loc: Wisconsin
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Hi Chris,
Well, a while back I did a review on the binocs: review
The optical quality of the 10X30's was "ok", but not great. I had a relatively flat field for 2/3rds of the field, the last third had that kind of "fisheye" feel. The binocs would be great for a sporting event or simple birding. I only had them a few days before I returned them, not so much because of the optical quality, but because I really was impressed with the IS feature. I can't stress enough how much more you "see" when the image doesn't look like a mini-earthquake.
Generally it seems to me that seven or eight power is about the max you can go and reasonably hand hold binoculars. For astro applications I think you really need about 10-20 power to be able to appreciate most large features in the sky like M31, 42 and 33. The smaller ones like M27 or M51 are still small even at 20 power.
I had an 11X80 binocular with a 4 degree field of view and those were pretty good. I loved M31 in them. The 20X100 pair were cheap, like $200 new so the glass wasn't the best. They had good light gathering, but those two 4" round pieces of glass were heavy. Finding proper balance on the tripod was very tough and dew became a factor as well.
10X50's are probably a good middle of the road choice between light gathering, magnification and cost.
The quality of the glass makes a big difference though, and that's where the $$$ come in. Kind of a ballpark idea, relatively low cost binocs run $150, middle of the road about $300 and nice glass around a thousand to two grand. The difference is seeing stars as pinpoints out to the edge of the field with correct color, or individual hairs on a bird feather.
In the birding biz I've been forunate to try several binocs with nice glass. Pretty much the high end stuff performs the same, but the IS is what puts the 10X42's over the top.
Canon does make some IS 15X50's. I have never tried them, but have heard real good reports. They run about a grand.
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-Jim-
Happiness is a clear sky and a Denk II
old AP images and some new C14 Hyperstar images
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AstroRealtor
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/26/08
Posts: 538
Loc: Terra Firma
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Quote:
Also another thing Jim, there is a bino forum, if might get a little more traffic on it. If you would like me to move it, let me know.
Thanks Jim,
Please move this to where I will get a better response rate.
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Clear Skies, Jim
--------------------------------------------------
Discovering: Messier objects, Deep sky treasures, NGCs, Double stars, & Nebulae of all kinds.
Televue 85 "Polaris" Mount
Custom Crafted Newtonian Dob 8" f7 w/Feathertouch
Celestron Cometron Reflector 114mm f8
Zeiss Diafun 8 X 30 Binos
Zeiss 10 X 56 Binos
Aldrich Astronomical Society
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Zebra24601
Postmaster
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 6514
Loc: San Gabriel Valley, CA 91770
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Quote:
Quote:
What kind of binos should I have to learn the constellations in the night sky with? Should I get a really big pair? Or; should I get something more like opera glasses? Should I mount them on some kind of binocular mount? Or; is it better to just point them at night sky objects randomly without any kind of repeatable guidance like a telescope has?
To learn the constellations all you need to do is have a planisphere and look up. Constellations are very large features in the night sky.
To see deep sky objects I believe a telescope is the best way to "learn the sky". Why? Because binoculars are usually too low in magnification. I suggest getting a nice 6" or 8" Dob and joining a local astronomy club.
Binoculars are fun and I think are better after you "know the sky".
Clear skies,
Rich
Good advice, especially if you have dark skies. For less dark skies, you might need the binoculars to see the constellation's main stars. Or even that might not be enough.
Something around 8x42 or 10x50 seems pretty good for general purpose binoculars (something you could also use for watching sporting events, for example).
15x70 are already "special purpose" binoculars. I can't imagine trying to watch a football game with one of those.
15x70 are also the largest I can handhold, and even they get tiring after a pretty short while. But they are light enough that those cheap L-brackets could be adequate. Then you get by with a camera tripod as you learn the constellations. But once you start using a tripod (even a small and cheap one), you lose some of the nice advantages of binoculars, which include their portability, low cost, immediately accessibility, and ease of use.
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Zebra24601
Meade 8" SCT w/UHTC * Celestron 100ED * Celestron C11 * Barska 15x70 binoculars
Meade LXD55 mount * Orion Sirius goto mount * Bushnell Voyager 4.5" Compact Reflector
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Rick
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 2511
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Quote:
To learn the constellations all you need to do is have a planisphere and look up. Constellations are very large features in the night sky.
My thoughts too.
clear skies,
Rick
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www.japanastro.com
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mttafire
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/02/06
Posts: 1114
Loc: midwest
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My favorite for simply scanning is the Garrett 8x45's
Its an excellent size for this purpose.
For more detailed views, i use my15x70's
However, 11x56's i am close to ordering and may become my mostly used bino.
Shawn
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God Bless America
Binocular astronomy
for me ONLY.
8x45 Garretts
15x70 Skymasters
2 eyes!
Edited by mttafire (05/12/08 07:34 PM)
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AstroRealtor
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/26/08
Posts: 538
Loc: Terra Firma
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I have an 8" dobsonian mounted reflector that I am using to see deep sky objects and more detail on planets etc. When I referred to "learning the constellations", I meant the ones that are not so obvious as to where the general boundaries are. I know the general location and I'm getting to know the brighter stars of most of the constellations that move through the ecliptic. I'm also trying to know and see things in the constellations that don't have bright stars. This takes time I know. But; as far as I can tell; I should be around a while longer. I prefer low stress when sailing the night sky and that's why I love the p-mount. The canon IS series have always intrigued me, are there others in this general category?
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Clear Skies, Jim
--------------------------------------------------
Discovering: Messier objects, Deep sky treasures, NGCs, Double stars, & Nebulae of all kinds.
Televue 85 "Polaris" Mount
Custom Crafted Newtonian Dob 8" f7 w/Feathertouch
Celestron Cometron Reflector 114mm f8
Zeiss Diafun 8 X 30 Binos
Zeiss 10 X 56 Binos
Aldrich Astronomical Society
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5280
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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I'm still not clear what you want. Do you want wider fields than your Zeiss 10x56 gives you? If that's the case then I'd go with a Zeiss 7x42 FL or
8x42 FL. However, if you want more power I highly recommend the Canon 15x50 IS. The Canon 15x50 IS makes a number of DSOs large enough to be interesting.
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4209
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my recommendations are:
1-start with what you have. the 10x56s should be fine
2-if you are looking for something else, I would suggest a wider angle handheld pair
3-next step would be a 70mm on a tripod
4-then move up to a 100mm pair
that should take care of your binocular astronomy needs for many years,
enjoy,
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12341
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
I am now considering another pair of binos that aren't so heavy to keep in my car for quick views. A lighter pair of binos that might not need to be mounted and still give good crisp images is on my wish list.
I'd recommend a good light 8x40.
read this CN Report: Small Binocular Reports A Dozen 8's
I agree that a chart and naked eye is the way to start finding your way around. But for instance when you want to see some of the star patterns between Cassiopeia and Perseus where these two constellations come together, a nice handheld while sitting in a reclining lawn chair can be a real pleasure to use. A 10x50 or an 8x40 is enough for that. Since you already have a 10x56, then seems to me an 8x40 fits the bill, and can be a nice light weight small binoc to have around for quick views.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Snaproll
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/20/04
Posts: 3434
Loc: Wisconsin
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Quote:
Quote:
Also another thing Jim, there is a bino forum, if might get a little more traffic on it. If you would like me to move it, let me know.
Thanks Jim,
Please move this to where I will get a better response rate.
There you go Jim, looks like the traffic has picked up. These guys (especially Ed Z) know their glass  .
Have fun 
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-Jim-
Happiness is a clear sky and a Denk II
old AP images and some new C14 Hyperstar images
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StarStuff1
sage
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 403
Loc: East Tennessee
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Thank you, EdZ. 8X40 is my most recommended binoc size for those folks starting out. So versatile for so many reasons, not just astronomy but that is, obviously, the most important reason.
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Two dozen eyepieces, a dozen binoculars, a half dozen refractors, two reflectors and a homemade Image Intensifier Eyepiece (IIE). All products subject to change by the owner at any time.
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edcannon
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 671
Loc: Austin, Texas
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Just to add a little bit, 8x40 also means 8x42, in my view (no pun intended). An 8x45 was also mentioned above, a Garrett model I believe.
How dark is your usual observing site?
Not sure what charts you already have, but I really really like the Bright Star Atlas 2000 by Tirion and Skiff to go along with small handheld binoculars. It's handy, convenient, easy to use, inexpensive, reasonly durable in the field (except for the two-staple binding - my only complaint about it), a good match with 8x binoculars, and definitely will help you learn a lot more about the constellations.
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Ed Cannon - Austin, Texas, USA
As of 23 August 2008 - Celestron Skymaster 12x60
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