star drop
Guilty as Charged
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 3302
Loc: Cattaraugus Co., NY
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Quote:
I often wonder what it must've been like to sleep many hours in the winter, and be awake & working many hours in the summer? That I suspect is the lifestyle we're made for; during the past 100+ years we've adapted, and are still adapting to the effect of light at night.
I do remember that lifestyle and for me it was just before our first computer purchase in November 1993. Definitely not 100 years ago.
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Ted
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woodsman
sage
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 488
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Hi Russell:
Hey, did you happen to check out 60 Minutes tonight on CBS? They had 2 segments devoted to sleep and its effects on our Biology. It wasn't about darkness, but it was truly interesting. Enjoy the darkness, Rich
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube
C-8 Orange
C-5 Orange
C-90 Astro Model
Sears 90mm f/15.56 Refractor
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Scope 60mm f/11.7
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tishovlin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 1813
Loc: Springfield, Pa
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There seems to be a preponderance of fertility issues with women living in industrialized societies. I have always suspected that artificial nightlighting disrupts the effects of the lunar cycle on our biology. Check out the link between menstrual and lunar cycles in the Wiki-link.Fertility Cycle
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Tim S
C6-RGT
13.1" Truss Dob
Osypowski dual-axis Eq. Platform
15x70 Obies
NP-101
Gibraltar tripod/mount
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini
I'm headin for Galt's Gulch
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Temp O'Rary
super member
Reged: 04/26/08
Posts: 138
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This is likely to be the only matter unrelated to profits and taxes which will help in the War Against Light Pollution(TM).
Women and their perceived (and actual) health issues traditionally possess tremendous power and influence with the public, media and lawmakers.
Nobody is stupid enough to argue against such emotionally-charged things because it's not an argument you can ever win.
If we can harness that kind of guaranteed "Quick, sign the darn thing and maybe they'll leave us alone!" fear-driven legistative power, we stand a much better chance of possibly winning some battles occasionally.
Appeal to the twin superpowers of greed and angry women. It's our only hope! 
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Glory Be to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Mankind's lifestyle changed significantly with the invention of the lightbulb
Yes, it has. And you don't have to speculate about that, because a significant fraction of the people in the world still live in places without electricity.
Traveling around India, I've noticed quite a striking difference between towns with electricity and the (decreasingly common) ones without. But even without electricity, people there still live a lot of their lives after sunset, for the simple reason that it's too hot to do much when the Sun is high in the sky. Sleeping during the day and being active at night is very common in the tropics.
Remember that fire was used for artificial lighting long before the species Homo Sapiens evolved. Of course, the light from fire is very different from electric light. I often wonder if the fact that red light doesn't kill dark adaptation is an evolutionary response to the use of fire for nighttime illumination.
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Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
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Achernar
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3721
Loc: Alabama, USA
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Maybe that was to help our ancient ancestors to see predators such as wolves, bears and large cats who would kill and eat them. Fire not only discouraged dangerous beasts from approaching, it gave us an advantage over them.
Taras
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10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
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RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1609
Loc: Cayce, SC
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Woodsman, I missed that show, but I can vouch for the effects of lack of sleep right now, no more than I've had this week (working on putting together my 40th high school reunion this coming weekend). I do know that sleep deprivation over long periods can have serious consequences. 
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
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RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1609
Loc: Cayce, SC
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M.A.L.P. "Mothers Against Light Pollution." Hmm, that might work. 
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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Ptarmigan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 1874
Loc: Arctic
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I am studying public health and I believe light pollution is a serious public health problem, even more than I can even imagine. It is an environmental health problem.
I remember watching CBS 60 Minutes and they talked about how people were getting less sleep on average than 30 years ago. The average today is 6.5 hours. In the past 30 years, the incidence and prevalence of obesity, diabetes, and heart disease have risen.
Studies have shown that people who sleep less are more likely to be obese and suffer from diabeters. As we are aware, obesity is a major problem.
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Ptarmigans=Cute and Cuddly
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Franklink
member
Reged: 07/19/08
Posts: 79
Loc: Somewhere Dark
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Humans and other animals need dark for sleep.
When the eye senses the lack of light, It signals the brain to start producing a chemical called melatonin. melatonin triggers symptoms such as muscle fatigue, the heaviness of the eyelids (the human form of blackout drapes!) yawning etc. you yawn because your body wants to take in oxygen to aid sleep.(this is why "oxygen bars" are so relaxing, although a waste of money).
many sleep medications contain a supplement of melatonin to aide sleep.
If the world is permanently lit, we will have trouble producing melatonin, and in turn trouble sleeping. If everyone could be so kind to dim their blaring lights, no one would need sleep medication anymore. this is a real problem that needs real laws against it.
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tishovlin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 1813
Loc: Springfield, Pa
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I'm with you Frank! Welcome to Cloudy Nights by the way!
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Tim S
C6-RGT
13.1" Truss Dob
Osypowski dual-axis Eq. Platform
15x70 Obies
NP-101
Gibraltar tripod/mount
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini
I'm headin for Galt's Gulch
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Franklink
member
Reged: 07/19/08
Posts: 79
Loc: Somewhere Dark
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thanks, tishovlin
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David L
super member
Reged: 11/12/07
Posts: 140
Loc: Lee County Iowa
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If you should be lucky enough to live where the skies are dark, you might find it hard to stay awake when it gets dark out. I lived in a rural area for a while with really dark skies, and much of the time, I was just too tired to get the scope out. I have to fight the notion that fighting light pollution is as much of a lost cause as is saving wildlife in the face of an ever-growing human population. Perhaps, women's health issues are the best way to take back the night.
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8.5 X 44 Swift Audubon binoculars
100 mm semi-apo triplet PVC spotting scope
6 inch F8 dobsonian
10 inch F4.5 dobsonian
2 2-cylinder equatorial platforms, 2-roller direct drive
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6" F6.5 Antares refractor
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28661
Loc: montana
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Quote:
If you should be lucky enough to live where the skies are dark, you might find it hard to stay awake when it gets dark out. I lived in a rural area for a while with really dark skies, and much of the time, I was just too tired to get the scope out.
I'm not sure the dark skies of a rural area would cause this. I have lived in a very rural area for over 12 years, am no spring chicken, & female , & I rarely go to bed before 11:30 pm; up early also. When viewing, I'm usually out at least until 1:30 am, sometimes 3am.
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
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moron392
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 808
Loc: Charlotte, NC
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Quote:
Quote:
2. People who spend a lot of time in flouresent lighting or in front of a computor screen (even on CN) will have deminished night vision
So that's me screwed then. 
LOL!  
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"If you've done something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
http://www.freewebs.com/moron392/index.htm
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Geoff48
member
Reged: 07/30/08
Posts: 14
Loc: N 43˚ 14' 52.7" W 71I...
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Quote:
Oh my. I just took a look at that site. As needed as that info is, it is depressing to read. We, as humans, are often the dumbest smart species the planet has ever seen. It's just that when we invent things or do certain things we don't always realize the impact we have on everything else. Here's another example: the migration and communication habits of whales are confused by the noise that our ships make. We didn't mean to cause that, but like so many other things, like light pollution, now that we know, it prudent and ethical that we do something about it. What kind of world are we headed for if we don't? The clock is ticking. It may be later than we think. 
There is plenty of significant evidence that Navy sonar is often responsible for whale/dolphin beachings. In a nutshell it drives them out of their minds. The US Guv doesn't want to discuss it of course.
Sea turtle adult females coming in to the beach to lay their eggs get all messed up by lights, and the hatchlings will head toward house lights beyond the dunes instead of the moonlight out over the ocean. There is no scientific doubt of the impact of too much light, just relating to the sea turtle species that are native to the shores of the USA. Some beach communities have strict lights out ordinances at egg laying time while others turn a blind eye.
Across America, as towns struggle with tight budgets, more and more of them look to cutting street lighting, but when they do the response is always shocking to me: the number of people who pretty much flip and become angry that the street light out at the corner might be shut off. They write angry letters and call their mayors or city leaders, usually resulting in a reversal of the decision or the policy. I guess we have a whole generation thats scared of the dark.
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Geoff. Since 1960.
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RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1609
Loc: Cayce, SC
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Geoff, I just welcomed you to CN a few minutes ago on the Beginners Forum. How nice to see your second post here on this thread. And what a great reply! I can see that you are a very informed and concerned citizen of our planet. It's good to see one more person care about how we can save ourselves from ourselves.
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1609
Loc: Cayce, SC
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I just had a thought about: what am I gonna do when I retire and want to stay up all night observing (because I can) and then sleep all day? Duh. 
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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Ptarmigan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 1874
Loc: Arctic
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Since health is always on everyone's mind, we could use it as a way to fight light pollution. People do not want to be sick and it cost a lot of money in terms of production and other drums and whistles.
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Ptarmigans=Cute and Cuddly
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Franklink
member
Reged: 07/19/08
Posts: 79
Loc: Somewhere Dark
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Another thought, Are children nowadays getting used to lots of light. Not evolutionarily (no wars please) but as a comfort thing. My friends children sleep with their lights on in their rooms! Is this becoming more of the norm?
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