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RussL
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1390
Loc: Cayce, SC
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I'm gonna take a chance here to get some discussion going. I'm not the expert on this, but somebody is, somewhere.
I read once that we, as humans, (perhaps all life), needs the darkness that should come at night. Without enough dark time our biology doesn't respond properly. That's as technical as I know how to be, myself. But along with that, our emotions can be affected, our psyche, if you will. It makes perfect sense to me. Just think, as life formed on the Earth it had to respond to the day/night rhythm. Day AND night are part of what we are. How many things that are wrong with the world today are due to darkness deficiency? Or how could it trigger other problems. I don't believe enough investigation has gone into this, at least not that I personally have heard. I'll just bet there's more to it than one would ever imagine.
Consider this: it has been only about one hundred (plus) years since the skies were truly dark. And look how much light we live with in our homes for nearly half the night. I've read about the effects of that, too, on our well-being. We need the light--that's what daytime is for. And we need the dark--that's what the night is for.
So, if someone out there is listening who knows the scoop on this subject, this is a good place to discuss it. If awareness of this problem were made more public it could be a lever against light pollution. This is my way of trying to fight since I don't have all the knowledge myself. 
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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PXR-5
super member
Reged: 03/28/08
Posts: 184
Loc: Monroe, NC
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Im sure you are on to something! I will start with my educated wife (a nurse). We have neighbors with farm lighting and see could not sleep if it were not for the black-out window shades and room darkening drapes. By the way these items cost over $200.00 at JC Penneys.
Well, my wife phoned me while typing this: There have been many studies on this.
1. We should have full darkness for REM sleep, No night lights, if really nessasary a small pink or red bulb.
2. People who spend a lot of time in flouresent lighting or in front of a computor screen (even on CN) will have deminished night vision 
3. People who live in the far North (or South) should NOT take advantage of the increased daylight to be more productive, but retire to a dim lit room for proper adjustment.
Im sure this will be a good thread, maybe we can find out more and can use to fight LP! 
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Jeff
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I hope you brought your credit card with you, and I hope you know how to
Drive on these long, lonely freeways and intersections we've got up
Here. We've got two cars in the garage, and
Drum-majorettes in white ankle socks and baton twirling on Sundays.
We've got stripes and the stars and Uncle Sam's on Mars....
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nighthawk
member
Reged: 04/20/07
Posts: 23
Loc: georgia,usa
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I have read that the pituitary can only produce the hormone Melatonin in complete darkness and even a little light will prevent production, (inhale) and that declines in production have been linked to aging and cancer. So maybe that security light is ending your life and not preserving it. Does any one really know??
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Stuff
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Cygnus_x1
Sketcher Extraordinaire
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 2108
Loc: Isle of Wight, England
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Quote:
2. People who spend a lot of time in flouresent lighting or in front of a computor screen (even on CN) will have deminished night vision
So that's me screwed then. 
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Visual Deep Sky Observing
Visual Astronomy blog
Fotopic astronomy gallery My photos from astronomy events, etc
8x42 binoculars 'light thimble'
4" refractor and 4" Meade SCT 'light cups'
12" Dobsonian 'light bucket'
Various TeleVue eyepieces
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Deep13
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/25/05
Posts: 1454
Loc: NE Ohio
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I always guessed that. If we evolved as a result of a specific environment and that environment has alternating day and night cycles since it began to cool 4 billion years ago; one would suppose than an abrupt change in that would have some effect on our health. Since most environmental changes are harmful to a critter, this one probably is too.
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Preserve the night sky. Join the Internat. Dark Sky Assn. for less than a cheap eyepiece.
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Achernar
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3576
Loc: Alabama, USA
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Darkness is the cue our bodies need to do the self repair and maintenance that can only be done when fast asleep. Things such as REM sleep. I can vouch for that from first hand experience after working two jobs for months.
Taras
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10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
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RussL
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1390
Loc: Cayce, SC
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You know what, it just occurred to me, what if we now began to evolve based on the change in the amount of darkness we receive. Where could we be heading?
No, don't answer that, I'm hijacking my own thread with that. But couldn't help but think about it.
Just another reason to stop the light monsters.
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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RussL
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1390
Loc: Cayce, SC
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And thanks to all who have replied here so far on this strange subject. 
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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vsteblina
member
Reged: 11/05/07
Posts: 21
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For the past five years our family doctor has recommended sleeping in a completely dark room. We have even taped over the clock radio with rubylith because it was to bright.
Unfortunately, power is cheap in our community. 2.1 cents or 1.85 cents per kilowatt hour depending on which side of the Columbia River your living. The local Public Utility District lights up the valley such that in our view home you don't need nightlights!!!
So we have had to rig a system of curtains and blinds to allow fresh air but block the lights of town.
Hopefully, as the health issues of nighttime lighting become more commonly known electrical companies will start to act more responsibly to protect human health. Right now, their attitude is draw your blinds!!!
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kiwi_canuck
member
Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 41
Loc: Port Coquitlam, BC, CANADA
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Excellent thread you started here, Russl.
Don't forget that for part of every month, our nights are lit by the moon, so I don't think we need complete blackness EVERY night in order to maximize physical benefit from our sleep time.
IMHO, what is more likely to be cause for health concerns is the wavelength of the artificial lights that are so prolific in our communities.
~Phill
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Sky-Watcher 250mm f/5 Collapsible Dobsonian
Sky-Watcher 102mm f/5 Refractor
EQ3-2 mount
Red-dot finder
TV Plossls - 11mm, 15mm, 25mm
Fraser Valley Astronomers Society, Abbotsford, BC
http://fvas.net
Edited by kiwi_canuck (05/17/08 01:17 AM)
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RussL
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1390
Loc: Cayce, SC
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Hi Phill,
That was an excellent reply! Hadn't even thought about the moon, much less WAVELENGTHS! I told you I wasn't the expert here on this. Now that I think about it, you're right about the moon, although I guess it has always been a part of the rhythm of life on Earth, right? Wavelengths are another whole thing, though. Very interesting. 
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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Dipole
sage
Reged: 12/21/06
Posts: 398
Loc: Right behind you
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I'm no expert either but I worked non-normal schedules for a decade.
Read "Wide Awake at 3 A.M." for a look at physical effects on your body when you get out of the natural circadian rhythms.
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RussL
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1390
Loc: Cayce, SC
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Quote:
Read "Wide Awake at 3 A.M." for a look at physical effects on your body when you get out of the natural circadian rhythms
Thanks Dipole,
Is that a book? Or a thread? 
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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Dipole
sage
Reged: 12/21/06
Posts: 398
Loc: Right behind you
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Sorry, it's a book by Richard Coleman.
I read it 20 years ago so it might be out of print. Check your library!
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RussL
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1390
Loc: Cayce, SC
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Thanks. Will do. The title sounds like me last night trying to catch the tail of Scorpius in my viewing window. Tired today as a result (and still raked the yard). Now I want to stay up again! I'll let ya'll know if I turn into a monster tomorrow from too little rest (I bet my wife will call me one anyway). 
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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Achernar
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3576
Loc: Alabama, USA
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That is exactly what I turn into when my sleep cycle gets interfered with for too long, which makes me feel like the Sasquatch in the Jack Link's jerky commercials...... 
Taras
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10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
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Dipole
sage
Reged: 12/21/06
Posts: 398
Loc: Right behind you
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Back on the body needing light/dark cycles, again I'm no expert, but when I worked a different shift each week I found the only way to keep my brain un-fogged was to put aluminum foil over the windows for sleep and I installed a bright waterproof light in the shower to help me start the day. Made a big difference!
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starramus
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 1124
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Aw come on. I think we are a wee bit biased on this "need for darkness" we being amateur astronomers. i think we could all sleep very well even living at the center of a globular cluster if we could survive the radiation.
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RussL
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1390
Loc: Cayce, SC
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May be, don't know. But there seems to be evidence. And I remember seeing something about it somewhere. Kind of like the flip side of another show I saw about how not enough light during the winter (or working conditions) affects some people.
That's why we're discussing it to see what we've got here (or not). And your input is just as important.
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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galaxyman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/04/05
Posts: 1149
Loc: Limerick, Pa
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Quote:
Aw come on. I think we are a wee bit biased on this "need for darkness" we being amateur astronomers. i think we could all sleep very well even living at the center of a globular cluster if we could survive the radiation.
Actually no, we and nature itself needs the cycle of day and night. In fact many of my talks, interviews, and writings have been mentioning this for more than two decades.
Recently (within this last decade) this has become a topic within the biological world. For instance a couple years ago, Audubon magazine had a very nice article on this.
For us, we are diurnal creatures who's sense's are not near what the nocturnal creatures have, hence we do our activities during the day and the need to sleep at night (astronomers with good clear skies the exception ).
In turn, much stress is put upon nature itself for both nocturnal and diurnal creatures. Plant life in many cases needs the cycle of day and night. Much of this is called the "Circadian Rhythm".
Think about it, in the last 4.5 billion years much has changed on this planet.... geological, environmental, and life, but in this long history the one thing that has not changed is the cycle of day and night. We, particularly in the last 30 to 40 years in many areas are changing that in which there is almost 24 hours of light, with half from our sun, and half from our overzealous outdoor lighting.
There is lots of info out there on this.
Light pollution is truly a real pollution, in that it does negatively effect our environment in many ways.
Karl
E.O.H. and POLC founder
Chesmont Astronomical Society
Telekit (Swayze optics) 22" F/4.5 Dob
Homemade (Parks Optics) 12.5" F/4.8 Dob
TMB 8" F/9 Refractor(The Beast)
Astrozap 6" f/8 Refractor
Orion 4" f/6 Refractor
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So many galaxies, so little time!
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