alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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Hi guys, really need some advice on binoviewers!
I own a CPC1100, and would really love to get a pair!
Any advice? Ive been told the celestron ones arent so good?
I own Meade UWA series 5000 etepieces- will these work on binos?
And will i still get my 82 degree AFOV??
Thanks guys!
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Al Canarelli
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/06/07
Posts: 1566
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The Meade UWA series (I believe) can be used as 1,25 as well as 2.00" applications, so you can use these ep's even if you buy a less expensive binoviewer such as the WO. I bought this unit several months ago and I love it. Keep in mind that you must use matched eyepieces in order for them to work and you will maintain the 82 degree AFOV.
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NoiseJammer
member
Reged: 09/16/07
Posts: 44
Loc: Toronto, ON
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Hi Alex - it makes sense to answer your questions in reverse order.
Regarding whether your eyepieces will work - well this depends on which eyepiece you're talking about. The critical thing is that to prevent vignetting, the eyepiece's field stop should be smaller than the clear aperture of the binoviewer. The 18 mm UWA should be ok when used with a Denk, Denk II or Televue binoviewer but the larger ones have 2" barrels and the only option is a Siebert.
Fwiw, I've used a R2 (Power Switch diagonal), Denk II and 24 mm Panoptics on my LX200/12. This combination really works well on the moon and planets. IMO, the minimum magnification is too high for deep sky observing but the S1 diagonal would help matters quite a bit.
Clearest
Bruce, Toronto
--------------------
LX200/12 & Borg 60ED f/3.8
TOA-150F / Denk II on DM6
... and way, way too much light polution.
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David E
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 1757
Loc: North Carolina
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Quote:
Hi guys, really need some advice on binoviewers!
I own a CPC1100, and would really love to get a pair!
Any advice? Ive been told the celestron ones arent so good?
I own Meade UWA series 5000 etepieces- will these work on binos?
And will i still get my 82 degree AFOV??
Thanks guys!
The Celestron units are made in China by the same manufacturer that makes all the other brands in that same price bracket: Orion, WO, Stellarvue, etc. It is not fair to say that they "aren't so good" as IMHO they are functional and a really nice deal for the money you pay. But you do get what you pay for. The premium brands like Televue and Denkmeier have much better fit and finish and larger prisms that are better made and better coated. But the imports are a good way to get started IMO if you have never tried binoviewer before or are not sure if you would like them in the long run.
The Meade 5K UWA's will work fine, but the import's limited aperture size will cause vignetting in the longer focal lengths. Actually, inexpensive eyepieces like plossls work really well in any binoviewers, and I recommend starting with pairs like that in the 20-25mm focal range. They are lightweight, have an excellent on-axis image, and are very easy to use. Only after you have used your binoviewers for a while and are sure you like them would I start investing in more expensive eyepieces. I believe most people end up liking binviewers, but there are some that don't like using them.
Go ahead my friend. Join us and come on over to the Double Dark Side. 
 David E
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David E
So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid.
-Robert Frost
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letimotif
no complaints
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1111
Loc: Far Flung Isles of Langerhans
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Hi Alex,
I keep forgetting you're in South Africa.
I do not know what options you have locally. Assuming none, I would suggest Stellarvue. Here's why: I had the chance to speak with Vic, the owner of Stellarvue, when he was out my way. He said that they inspect each bino set up when it arrives. He rejects and returns about one third of each shipment for defects.
Since William Optics, Celestron and Stellarvue all get their product from the same shop, this one fact of which I am certain leads me to recommend the Stellarvue. It may be the others do the same. I can only relate what I have learned from speaking with Vic about his procedures.
As others have said, your Meade EPs will vignette in these entry level systems. In your CPC 1100, though, some of the less expensive longer focal length (15mm or 20mm) plossls are good bets. I believe Stellarvue still includes their quite good 23mm eyepieces, too. Regardless, they're also an excellent choice with which to start.
Keep in mind that binoviewers like these are not really designed for either particularly high or low powers. Pairs the mid range magnifications are best. You won't be disappointed. For a modest investment they're a lot of fun.
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Celestron CPC 1100
Celestron C6R-GT
Orion 120ST
B&L Banner Astro 80mm
Astro Telescopes 'tis a mystery 80mm ED
Sundry Oddments
Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?
Ad astra per aspera
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alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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Thanks guys, reall appreciate the help! I am travelling to New York soon, and was thinking that the Denk Big Easy might be a good idea.
I read somewhere that with UWA EPs you cant go longer than 25mm focal lengths. Is this true?
And what is Vignetting???
I leave in two weeks, so I will need to know exactly what to buy before that!
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David E
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 1757
Loc: North Carolina
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Vignetting is when something reduces your field of view before it reaches the eyepiece. For example the baffles may be too large, or the focuser tube too long. The best way I know to describe it is to look through an empty cardboard tube. The opening at the far end is smaller than the opening at your eye. If you buy a premium brand like Denkmeier or Televue, they have clear apertures big enough that you don't have to worry about vignetting. They have clear apertures around 26 or 27mm. The import (~$200) binoviewers have a clear aperture around 20 or 21mm. If you happen to have both a 32mm and 25mm plossl (any brand) you can turn them upside down and look through them and see how the aperture (called the field stop diameter) is much large in the 32mm. If you measure it with calipers, the 32 will be about 27mm wide and the 25 will be about 21mm wide. So you can see the 32mm will be wider than the 21mm of the import brands, causing vignetting. Now, with the imports, it's not really a bad thing, you just have to know that you won't see as large a field of view with a 32mm plossl through these binos as you will looking through one eyepiece in "mono" mode. But as I mentioned, since you want the Denk Big Easy, you won't have to worry about this issue with any 1.25" eyepiece.
David E
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David E
So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid.
-Robert Frost
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4460
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Quote:
I read somewhere that with UWA EPs you cant go longer than 25mm focal lengths. Is this true?
Actually, using Denk BVers as a reference, 24mm SWA (~68*) EPs can in some scopes be a stretch- Denks own SWA EPs being 21mm/65* AFoV. I'd guess that somewhere around ~18mm FL would be the max in an "UWA" (ie. 82*) EP for a Denk-type BVer... and even shorter FLs for the above in a smaller-prism'd BVer make.
To add a touchy-feely aspect to David's above description of "vignetting", what you'd *see* in the EP would be a gradual darkening toward the outer FoV, growing darker toward the edges. Stars in a uniform starfield would begin dimming & snuffing out as you viewed toward the edges, fainter ones first, etc. Instead of a definably hard, crisp field-stop edge to your view, you'd see a vague & fuzzy *zone*.
When one is used to the crisp edge to a view, bounded by blackest black, the vignetted view is like wearing clothing of the wrong size- its quite distracting & bothersome.
mike b
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
 Pacheco State Park
 Fremont Peak
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Thanks guys, reall appreciate the help! I am travelling to New York soon, and was thinking that the Denk Big Easy might be a good idea.
I read somewhere that with UWA EPs you cant go longer than 25mm focal lengths. Is this true?
Even in the denk, the maximum UWA you could use without getting vignette would be a 19mm. Everything larger than that will vignette and will not show any wider fov than a 19mm.
Eyepiece FS Diameters for Binoviewers
here's a guide chart
Also read this to help clear up any confusion about the actual aperture of most of the binoviewers on the market, including the Denks.
What they are sold as
Burgess C 20
Stellervue B3 22
Denkmeier Big Easy or Standard 26
Actual Exit aperture
Burgess C 20
Stellervue B3 20
Denkmeier Big Easy or Standard 25.4
A broad selection of other entry level binoviewers on the market under a wide variety of names is the same body as the Burgess C and the Stellervue B3.
Binoviewers and Clear Aperture
If selecting one of the 20mm CA binoviewers on the market, not only is there a light loss at the outer edges of the field stops, but also the Maximum True Field of View that you can get will be restricted to eyepieces with field stops about 22-23mm max.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
Edited by EdZ (05/19/08 12:49 PM)
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alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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thanks so much guys, really appreciate it!
So the Denks are a good way to go?
I looked through the celstrons, and WOW, it was amazing!
Jupiter looked so different! and its moons looked like they
popped out!
How does the Power X switch work? does it come with the big easy package?
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4460
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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The PxS is an add-on to *any* of the Denk BVer packages, and with your SCT, i'd strongly recommend the PxS diagonal, as it can be used with the BVer -OR- with single EPs! The PxS that threads onto the BVer itself can only be used *with* the BVer...
The PxS, single and dual-arm units, simply & beautifully throws an optional lens group into the lightpath to act as a "Barlow" or reducer. That way one EP can function as two (or three  ) while never needing to be moved... just flick the switch in (or out) & refocus as needed. Very slick!
Having the dual-arm jobber in my scope, there are many nites that only ONE pair of EPs is ever usd! This kinda thing can make a guy seriously lazy...
And *yes*- Jupiter & its moons in a BVer are quite stunning! Shadow transits can be mesmerizing  Saturn's satellites & ring system are jaw-droppingly gorgeous!
mike b
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alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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Simply cant wait to see saturn.
how much is the power x switch? you guys recommend it then?
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4460
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Alex-
If you're wanting a PxS to go with the BVer, i'd recommend contacting Russ at Denkmeier directly, to see what he has in the way of packages for your specific scope- might be more cost effective than buying all the components separately. Also, if you have a second scope you want to use it in, he can best advise you on how to configure the system so BOTH scopes can benefit best!
But almost anyone who enjoys using Denk's products will give them a hearty recommendation! The PxS is one of the coolest developments in astro-gear since the invention of astro-gear, so to recommend THAT specific device is, to me, a total no-brainer! Its quite excellent! 
Getting this type of gear "used" is also a possibility, but from your location, i don't know how much might be readily available- as it is in the CONUS. Ultimately, Russ at Denkmeier is very knowledgable about his products & how they work with different scopes & systems, so is the surest way to dial in exactly what will work best for you!
mike b
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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David E
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 1757
Loc: North Carolina
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Quote:
Alex-
If you're wanting a PxS to go with the BVer, i'd recommend contacting Russ at Denkmeier directly, to see what he has in the way of packages for your specific scope- might be more cost effective than buying all the components separately. mike b
That's what I did. I have a Stellarvue refractor that is binoviewer ready and he set me up with a package that saved me quite a bit of money. But at the same time, if you can't afford the entire package, the Denk Big Easy is a great way to start, as you can always add any accessory later on.
David E
--------------------
David E
So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid.
-Robert Frost
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alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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thanks guys...
i think i will get the denks- is the big eay package worth it, or should i just get the standard?
im going to get 19mm UWA meade series 5000 EPs
Does anyone know the price of the power switch ?
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4460
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Quote:
Does anyone know the price of the power switch ?
Hi Alex-
Here's a link to the Denk website, where you can read-up on what they offer, as well as check prices. They offer both single-arm & dual-arm PxS systems!
--------------------
Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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thanks guys.. i will get in contact with russ.
as soon as i get my system up, ill give a report!
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warf
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/25/04
Posts: 709
Loc: Wisconsin
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I have been using the Denk Standards with Celestron NS11 for over 5 years and I would probably sell the scope before I would sell the binoviewer. I also use them in my WO 80mm refractor and on my Coronado PST. Your meade eyepieces will work fine in Denk Big Easy. I am totally confident that you will be very pleased with a Denk Bino with your CPC 11. The powerswitch Diagonal is nice option too allowing you to go between views without changing out eyepieces.
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Marsh
Celestron NS 11 GPS, Denk Standard Binoviewer, Pair of Denk 21 EP, Denk PowerSwitch Diagonal, Denk PST Corrector, Coronado PST Double Stacked, WO ZS80 Anniversary,Celestron 15x70 Binoculars
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alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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how does the power switch work?
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warf
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/25/04
Posts: 709
Loc: Wisconsin
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The powerswitch sits between the binoviewer and the diagonal or if you get a the powerswtitch diagonal, it is built into the diagonal. It has a left and right lever that you can push in to switch from reduced mag view to increased mag view. If you pull both levers to the out position then you have your normal eyepiece magnification, so in essence you have three magnification settings with one pair of eyepieces.
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Marsh
Celestron NS 11 GPS, Denk Standard Binoviewer, Pair of Denk 21 EP, Denk PowerSwitch Diagonal, Denk PST Corrector, Coronado PST Double Stacked, WO ZS80 Anniversary,Celestron 15x70 Binoculars
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alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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so basically, it saves cash in terms of the amount of eyepieces you need?
guy- thank you so much for the help! this forum has been a blessing!
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Unless you are purchasing some expensive eyepieces, I would say it is more a matter of convienience rather than less expense. Four extra Meade 5K plossls (2 pair) cost less than the power x switch.
If you use standard plossls like I do, I could buy 3 extra PAIRS of eyepieces for the cost of the power x switch.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4460
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Quote:
Unless you are purchasing some expensive eyepieces, I would say it is more a matter of convienience rather than less expense
Well, for me its even more than that. Convenience?- certainly. Expensive EP pairs?- got 'em. But having a PxS attached accomplishes a raft of benefits:
1) Less care concerns with handling of EPs in-the-field due to magnification changes,
2) Those mag changes accomplished more quickly & easily, both up and down, encouraging more detailed & extended study of a given object,
3) Less frequent issues with rebalancing the scope *during* those EP change-outs,
4) Maintaining eye-relief benefit of longer FL EPs during high-mag viewing,
5) No need to fiddle with EP positions for merging views- once done for a pair, it stays done done,
6) Offers ability to wisely select a *few* quality EPs such that their mag ranges stagger in such a way as to optimize YOUR specific viewing preferences! Can land you effective FLs not offered by conventional EP offerings.
Granted, these might all fit under the heading of "convenience", but i thot it was worth expanding & expounding
--------------------
Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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magsterone
super member
Reged: 03/14/06
Posts: 121
Loc: Mobile, AL
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It is even better when you add the filter switch. It is truly a better way to view. I use 24 pans and never change them out.
--------------------
Best Regards,
Joe in Mobile
C-11 ASGT
Denk II Binos
Denkmeier #S2-d SCT Powerswitch
Pair of Televue 24 Panoptics
(Possibly 13t6's in the future)
Member of Mobile Astronomy Society
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alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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From what I've read, the power switch is just a matter of convenience? you can still get the change in mag by changing parts around?
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4460
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Absolutely.
But me? I'm hooked on the convenience... as well as the 12 different magnification settings i can get from 4 pairs of EPs.
'Tis mighty handy at times!
--------------------
Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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warf
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/25/04
Posts: 709
Loc: Wisconsin
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I agree with Mike on all accounts... convenience equates to more over the eyepiece actual observing time.
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Marsh
Celestron NS 11 GPS, Denk Standard Binoviewer, Pair of Denk 21 EP, Denk PowerSwitch Diagonal, Denk PST Corrector, Coronado PST Double Stacked, WO ZS80 Anniversary,Celestron 15x70 Binoculars
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jimandlaura26
super member
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 125
Loc: Northern VA
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I agree wholeheartedly with Mike's points.
I have both the Stellarvue (SV) and Denk bino's. They both give great views and they both have diopter adjustments for each eye, which is a big plus to bring perfect focus to both eyes. In the case of my C8, I use a Denk S-2 power switch diagonal with the SV bino's and either the 23mm SV EP's or 18mm University Optics HD Orthos. When in single eyepiece mode on my C-8, I typically only use one eyepiece with the power switch... a 22mm Type 4 Nagler. The advantage of putting the power switch on the Denk diagonal is that you can use it for either bino or single EP mode.
I typically use my Denk binos with my SV refractors... I don't yet have a power switch here and so I rely on multiple eyepiece sets... in my case 25mm Antares Elites, 12mm Pentax XF's and 8.5mm Pentax XF's... which render between 60 and 50 degree apparent field of views. I tried some of the lesser expensive wider field of view EPs and was not really happy with either the vignetting or the poor focus and distortions across the entire field of view... so I ultimately decided to sacrifice some field of view for image quality.
--------------------
Jim M.
Northern VA (NOVAC member)
Stellarvue 80ED
Stellarvue 80S & SV-1 alt/az mount
Stellarvue 102A & Discmounts DM-6 alt/az mount
Celestron C8-XLT & ASGT GEM
Coronado PST
Edited by jimandlaura26 (05/24/08 09:20 AM)
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alexvh
member
Reged: 07/29/07
Posts: 122
Loc: South Africa
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I hear you guys... but as a cash strapped student I have few options! :-(
I'm thinking of getting a pair of 6.7mm and 18mm UWA (82*)
Series 5000 EPs...
Comments??
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jimandlaura26
super member
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 125
Loc: Northern VA
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Personally, as stated above, I would stay away from ultra-wides due to image quality and stick to moderate priced plossl-like field of views.
--------------------
Jim M.
Northern VA (NOVAC member)
Stellarvue 80ED
Stellarvue 80S & SV-1 alt/az mount
Stellarvue 102A & Discmounts DM-6 alt/az mount
Celestron C8-XLT & A |
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