ccs_hello
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 2667
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Joe,
Per its website description, it is also the progressive mode, which is ICX453AQ ('413 is interlaced).
It is type-1.8" which is the industry common way describing the size of imager "for the lens image circle coverage", not true diagonal size of 1.8".
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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Joe G
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/10/07
Posts: 511
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Thanks CCS. I googled it trying to find the difference and basically they are the same except as you noted. I wonder why the Orion site says "progressive scan imaging," but then on the Product Specs page refers to the 413.
Maybe a typo. Is it correct that you can only have electronic shutters with a progressive scan chip?
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skyler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/16/06
Posts: 1182
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Is the Sony ICX413AQ the chip from the Nikon D70?
S
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ccs_hello
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 2667
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See my earlier CN post.
D100: ICX413AQ (interline interlaced)
D70, 70s, 50, 40: ICX453AQ (interline progressive)
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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skyward_eyes
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 744
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I was very interested in this camera but then found out that its near 6" diameter would kill my C-8 Hyperstar system so its back to the QHY8!
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Life is simple; people just make it complicated.
www.skywardeyes.webs.com
Custom 16" Truss f/4.5 (In August!)
Orion XT10i
w/Moonlite Focuser(Signed by David Levy)
Celestron Carbon Fiber C-8 w/Feather Touch Focuser
(Signed by Thomas Bopp and David Levy)
Celestron C-6R 6" Achro. (On Loan)
Orion 100ED Apo.
Orion ST-80EQ
50mm refractor.
Starizona Hyperstar 3
Orion Starshoot II
Celestron CG-5 Go To EQ
Orion SVP w/ RA drive
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DugDog
super member
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 548
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
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Yesterday when I ordered this camera it was listed on Orion's main "Astro-Imaging" page here:
http://www.telescope.com/control/category/~category_id=astro-imaging_camera/~pcategory=astro-imaging
Today, the link to the "StarShoot Pro Deep Space CCD Color Imaging Camera" is missing!
Dennis' link he posted originally is still active:
http://www.telescope.com/control/product/~category_id=astro-imaging_camera/~pcategory=astro-imaging/~product_id=52084
I wonder why Orion is trying to hide this now? Did someone let the cat out of the bag too soon? 
Interesting.
DD
--------------------
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
20 X 80 Binoculars.
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skyward_eyes
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 744
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I am sure they are just re figuring the website for it.
--------------------
Life is simple; people just make it complicated.
www.skywardeyes.webs.com
Custom 16" Truss f/4.5 (In August!)
Orion XT10i
w/Moonlite Focuser(Signed by David Levy)
Celestron Carbon Fiber C-8 w/Feather Touch Focuser
(Signed by Thomas Bopp and David Levy)
Celestron C-6R 6" Achro. (On Loan)
Orion 100ED Apo.
Orion ST-80EQ
50mm refractor.
Starizona Hyperstar 3
Orion Starshoot II
Celestron CG-5 Go To EQ
Orion SVP w/ RA drive
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 5023
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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I was out looking at DSLRs today and one thing that struck me is that once you're looking in the $1,000-$1,500 range you have a lot of options. For example $900 will get you a Rebel XSi kit (body plus lens) with 14 bit data and 12 Mp plus some other nice features.
What a neat time to be an amateur astronomer. 
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-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro, DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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Keith
Vendor
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 174
Loc: Costa Mesa, CA USA
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the only bummer with these chips, is that the RGB bayer matrix has 2x the sensitivity to sodium light pollution, than it does to HA... the kodak color chips set the minimum gap in the sodium line an th HA is closer to the peak of the red pixels, similar to the RGB filters used in mono systems.
Still looks tempting for the price.
Keith
--------------------
Celestron/Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Losmandy GM-8 Gemini
Televue 101
C-11
AT 66ED
8" LX200R OTA (wow!)
10"f5 DSO dob
8"f4 Hardin Starhoc 8-4 OTA
6"f8 Hardin DSH dob
Orion Apex 90 mak OTA
Celestron 4" f10 Acrho OTA
CG5 Alt-Az conversion
Cel/Baader 80GT mount conversion-127mak/80f11 achro-both 2" capable
---
SBIG ST1001E, SBIG ST7XME-D, SBIG ST7ABG, Cel/SBIG PixCel255, DSIc, DSIpro, Nikon D50
---
EP junkie (Naglers/Pentax's/WSIIIs/cel-meade Japan/orthos/tmbs etc)
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Strgazr27
Scope Junkie
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 5681
Loc: StonyHill Observatory
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Keith,
Welcome! Nice to see you here! My question is based on the charts Here and one for the Kodak chip Here . The QHY8 chart uses 1 as 60% efficient. As an info freak, where are the differences? I can see the almost 2X efficiency in the green but I also see an almost 2x better efficiency in the red for the Sony chip. Granted this comparison is for the QHY not the Orion but depending on what you read they may or may not share the same chip. Orion notes the 413 chip where the 8 uses the 435 chip. I used the ST11K as it seemed as close as match to the 8 with a Kodak chip. I might be wrong with this though. Like I said I'm learning all of this on the fly so any help is appreciated !
CS's
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StonyHill Observatory
CGE
TMB 130SS
TMB 80SS CF
AT-111
AT66-ED
Vixen R200SS
QHY-8
SSAG
YAHOO TMB 130SS Group
YAHOO ASTRO-TECH GROUP
Edited by Strgazr27 (05/18/08 08:53 AM)
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ccs_hello
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 2667
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Quote:
ICX413AQ (interline interlaced)
ICX453AQ (interline progressive)
If Orion's is progressive mode, then it is '453.
Orion rep will know the fact soon.
Officially, '453 is a "factory" number reserved to be used by "N" thus it is a private label. A more fuzzier way to descibe it is to call it '413-like.
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skyler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/16/06
Posts: 1182
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So I am wondering what is the image quality difference between the two chips in equivalent applications?
Could I use a comparison of the SXVF-M25 vs QHY8? Starlight appears to be a 413 and we know the QHY8 is a 453.
S
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Joe G
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/10/07
Posts: 511
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Skyler,
I believe that the SXVF-25 uses the 453. Early versions may have used the 413.
Check out Dietmar's review here and his images if you haven't seen them:
http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/
If the Orion camera comes close it really is an amazing piece of equipment from a price/performance perspective.
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skyler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/16/06
Posts: 1182
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Thanks Joe.
I wonder if that was the case with the QHY8 as well. I know that originally he used the 413 and am now wondering if he is actually using the 453 (which I think is the consensus) and when that changed.
I sent him a message asking about the chip use so hopefully I get an answer soon.
S
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imhotep
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/07
Posts: 1092
Loc: Tampa, FL
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Sorry, I just saw this thread.
Quote:
I just heard from a reliable source that the Orion camera is a relabeled QHY.
Ozy, who is your reliable source if you don't mind my asking? Reason being, two days ago after learning of Orion's new camera I communicated directly with Qiu as well as the supplier from whom I purchased my QHY8. According to them the chip is where the similarities end. These two cameras are very different electronically, so I'm curious as to the differing information that's popping up. Rumors are typical on the heels of a new product release so I just want to make sure we don't spread misinformation.
Maybe its just me, but a quick glance at the physical dimensions of Orion's new camera tells me there's a lot more to it than a simple rebadge, more so than what went down with their recent Q-Guider.
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Curt
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imhotep
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/07
Posts: 1092
Loc: Tampa, FL
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Ah Richard, I knew you'd like the looks of this
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Curt
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Keith
Vendor
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 174
Loc: Costa Mesa, CA USA
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note how the peak of the kodak chip's red spectrum is higher up on the graph closer to HA line, and the Sony Chip's peak is a little lower, closer to the Sodium line. Where the Kodak chip is less sensitive is in the Sodium line(the minumum gap between R and G) and the Peak is closer to HA. On the Sony chip, the Peak is closer to sodium, and HA is in the area where the sensitivity is falling off again.
That graph is a little vague though, the kodak graph is a little more precise.
Keith
--------------------
Celestron/Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Losmandy GM-8 Gemini
Televue 101
C-11
AT 66ED
8" LX200R OTA (wow!)
10"f5 DSO dob
8"f4 Hardin Starhoc 8-4 OTA
6"f8 Hardin DSH dob
Orion Apex 90 mak OTA
Celestron 4" f10 Acrho OTA
CG5 Alt-Az conversion
Cel/Baader 80GT mount conversion-127mak/80f11 achro-both 2" capable
---
SBIG ST1001E, SBIG ST7XME-D, SBIG ST7ABG, Cel/SBIG PixCel255, DSIc, DSIpro, Nikon D50
---
EP junkie (Naglers/Pentax's/WSIIIs/cel-meade Japan/orthos/tmbs etc)
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Ozy
Vendor - Starizona
Reged: 06/15/07
Posts: 185
Loc: Goodyear, AZ
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Quote:
Sorry, I just saw this thread.
Quote:
I just heard from a reliable source that the Orion camera is a relabeled QHY.
Ozy, who is your reliable source if you don't mind my asking? Reason being, two days ago after learning of Orion's new camera I communicated directly with Qiu as well as the supplier from whom I purchased my QHY8. According to them the chip is where the similarities end. These two cameras are very different electronically, so I'm curious as to the differing information that's popping up. Rumors are typical on the heels of a new product release so I just want to make sure we don't spread misinformation.
Maybe its just me, but a quick glance at the physical dimensions of Orion's new camera tells me there's a lot more to it than a simple rebadge, more so than what went down with their recent Q-Guider.
Ya, my source was wrong. I was corrected by someone else and informed that it was going to be produced in Canada instead.
--------------------
Webmaster - Starizona - HyperStarImaging
Cuttin' Edge Observatory
Starlight Xpress SXVF-M25C - SXV Autoguider
Celestron C14, C8, Tele Vue NP127is, TV-60is - Paramount ME w/ Pinnacle Pier
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Keith
Vendor
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 174
Loc: Costa Mesa, CA USA
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basically, the sony chip is optimized for consumer use, and is more sensitive to the wonderful greens of summer, and the lights of the city nights, and the kodak chip just happens to be similar in filter spectrum to a good set of astro LRGB filters, with the peaks closer to the good stuff (HA is alot redder than the vibrant reds in a daytime picture). The Kodak also has excellent sensitivity to the blue in galaxies, clusters and reflection nebula.
Using the same chip in my d50 in the past, 2-3 minute subs with 8"f5 newt, compared to the subs I got using an ST2000XCM with 4"f5.4 refractor (same F ratio) from the same site, the 2-3 minute subs had alot more sky noise (reddish brown ucky stuff) than 10 minute subs with the kodak CCD. See the picture of m45 in June issues of S+T and Astronomy (Opt CCD ad), that was taken with the ST2000 color, 10 minute subs. I remember shooting m51 when it was high up from the same site with d50, and there was alot more sodium glow in the image.
Keith
--------------------
Celestron/Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Losmandy GM-8 Gemini
Televue 101
C-11
AT 66ED
8" LX200R OTA (wow!)
10"f5 DSO dob
8"f4 Hardin Starhoc 8-4 OTA
6"f8 Hardin DSH dob
Orion Apex 90 mak OTA
Celestron 4" f10 Acrho OTA
CG5 Alt-Az conversion
Cel/Baader 80GT mount conversion-127mak/80f11 achro-both 2" capable
---
SBIG ST1001E, SBIG ST7XME-D, SBIG ST7ABG, Cel/SBIG PixCel255, DSIc, DSIpro, Nikon D50
---
EP junkie (Naglers/Pentax's/WSIIIs/cel-meade Japan/orthos/tmbs etc)
Edited by Keith (05/18/08 09:32 PM)
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ccs_hello
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 2667
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Folks,
Kodak CCD has many families of product lines with various generations. So which exactly the part number we want to compare with and why specifically pick that part?
Most importantly, please also show the price of such CCD camera using that specific Kodak sensor.
I will never compare a specific Toyota 2005 6-cyl Camry with any model any year produced by GM ranging from sedan to truck, from low-end to premium.
P.S. I thought this thread is better served if people understand that the "donor" CCD sensor came from a mass-market product with good final finished system price vs. a (potentially) purpose-build low-quantity but premium-spec. CCD sensor with an overall high finished system price.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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