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vsteblina
member


Reged: 11/05/07
Posts: 21
JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US
      #2411881 - 05/21/08 10:53 PM

About 10 years ago I ran into a gentleman on the internet that hosted a dark sky site. He basically gave a dark sky index if you can give lat and long.

I realized that given his data set that he could easily generate a map of the United States where NO SKY GLOW IS VISIBLE.

I asked him to do that and he did.

Here is his map. I'm sorry I have lost track of his name. From what I can tell from my experiences in the western US the map is fairly accurate. It does not include the influence of lights from Canada or Mexico. It also does not take into account elevation.

So here it is....the sad part is how few places there are in the United States where no glow is visible on the horizon. If your east of the great River...sorry.

Eastern Oregon and northern Nevada are your best bets. Portions of southern Utah might also work.

This data is over ten years old, but it would be interesting if somebody could redo the image.

Edited by csa/montana (05/23/08 09:40 PM)


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galaxyman
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Reged: 04/04/05
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Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: vsteblina]
      #2412029 - 05/22/08 12:33 AM

There are some sites still in the east which on very good nights could be called close to pristine with the horizons showing no more than atmospheric extinction.

One site that comes to mind and is a favorite of many in the Chesmont, is the summit of Spruce Knob in West Virginia.

Elevation can make a huge difference with light pollution.

Karl
E.O.H.

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--------------------
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Tom TrusockAdministrator

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Reged: 02/26/02
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Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: galaxyman]
      #2412768 - 05/22/08 11:54 AM

Michigan's Northern Lower and Upper Peninsulas are also quite good.

--------------------
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starramus
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: Tom Trusock]
      #2412929 - 05/22/08 01:02 PM

My wife is constantly cajoling me that we move to upstate NY her origin. I always chide her that, "the east is the least and the west is the best." Parts of the west are the best, but the growing malignancy will eventually engorge the pockets of dark sky remaining. No amount of public education or protestation will stem this inevitable trend. In the coming decades we can kiss goodbye forever our dark skies. That is unless humanity should suddenly vacate the planet.

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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2096
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: starramus]
      #2413416 - 05/22/08 04:33 PM

Quote:

Parts of the west are the best, but the growing malignancy will eventually engorge the pockets of dark sky remaining. No amount of public education or protestation will stem this inevitable trend. In the coming decades we can kiss goodbye forever our dark skies. That is unless humanity should suddenly vacate the planet.




Most of the land west of the Rockies Front Range is government-owned, much of it in extremely large chunks. As long as lights are severely restricted in BLM land, National Forests, and National Parks, there will be plenty of dark areas in the U.S.

With respect to the original posting, not being able to see any artificial light in any direction (assuming completely unobstructed horizons) is a very high standard. Unreasonably high, in my opinion. Long before you reach that point, artificial light pollution is negligible compared to natural airglow and the zodiacal light.

--------------------
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vsteblina
member


Reged: 11/05/07
Posts: 21
Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #2414028 - 05/22/08 10:30 PM

"With respect to the original posting, not being able to see any artificial light in any direction (assuming completely unobstructed horizons) is a very high standard. Unreasonably high, in my opinion. Long before you reach that point, artificial light pollution is negligible compared to natural airglow and the zodiacal light."

I disagree.

It might be true in the eastern US. But for the west...I remember skies so black and dark. This winter I went back to one of those spots. Glows from Las Vegas, Bullhead City (one casino) and Kingman, Arizona. When in the hell did Kingman become a city. All this in a spot where there was no glow 30 years ago.

American kids are into nature deficit disorder. The night sky is a very important part of nature. It is also something we can provide to every kid. All we have to do is shield lights and turn them off when not using them.

I went to Yellowstone about ten years ago. There in the night sky rising in the east was an dim object, but clearly visible. I had to get out my star chart to identify it..M33. Now that is a dark sky. No glow visible anywhere.

Later that summer on a business trip backpacking the Cascade Crest with several other professional Foresters I was disappointed when a couple of them mentioned the dark sky.
The glow from Seattle had totally changed the sky. Unfortunately, these Foresters thought the sky dark and natural. I was shocked that they had forgotten what a truly dark sky looked like.

No sky glow is not that difficult of a standard. It was commonplace in the west 30 years ago. We can get that sky back.

In my 30 year career as a Forester I have been very pleased with the progress in managing our natural environment. Air pollution, water pollution standards, Forestry standards for reforestation and presevation of stream quality. Restoration of endangered species habitat, etc. etc.

Outside of our urban areas things are much better than they were 30 years ago. Except for one thing...the night sky.

And it is the easiest and cheapest environmental fix that we face.

We owe it to our kids.


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csa/montanaModerator
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Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28568
Loc: montana
Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: vsteblina]
      #2414653 - 05/23/08 09:04 AM

vsteblina

Please click on the flashing envelope on the upper left side of your screen; I sent you a Private Message (PM).

Thanks!

--------------------
Carol


AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
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David L
super member


Reged: 11/12/07
Posts: 140
Loc: Lee County Iowa
Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: csa/montana]
      #2428161 - 05/30/08 12:03 AM

Given that fossil fuels are finite, and given that we have not done much to replace these, dark skies might make a comeback, but I am betting that lighting will be one of the last items that people will cut from their budgets.

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Mike Clemens
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Reged: 11/26/05
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Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: David L]
      #2428164 - 05/30/08 12:05 AM

where can i see that map?

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csa/montanaModerator
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Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 28568
Loc: montana
Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #2428173 - 05/30/08 12:10 AM

The map was in violation of the TOS, since it was from another website. I had asked the Original Poster to provide a link to it, so hopefully that will be done.

--------------------
Carol


AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm B/TMB 3.2
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan

DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2



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Illinois
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 556
Loc: near Chicago, Illinois USA
Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: csa/montana]
      #2428867 - 05/30/08 11:06 AM

North of small town Rachel in Nevada is dark sky at the same time you might catch strange top sercet planes from Area 51!

--------------------
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Gordon Rayner
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 506
Re: JPEG...Pristine Skies in the US new [Re: Illinois]
      #2641199 - 09/14/08 01:17 AM

There are still some dark areas in northern Baja California, Mexico, which have the added advantage of being in dry locations with good altitudes, and are far enough south to allow good views of the bottom of Scorpio, or some of the best parts of Vela and Puppis.

President Calderon was in Ensenada last week to announce the opening of bids for the proposed megaport at Colonet. What, if any, consideration and planning has been made, or will be made, to reduce the effect of the inevitable light pollution this project will cause on the Mexican National Observatory at San Pedro Martir? The high altitude meadows below the observatory are truly a Mecca for the dark sky aficionado. But for how long? That area is a long drive from Los Angeles or San Diego, and there are no public facilities . One must bring water, warm clothing for the 8,000-9000 foot nights, food, and adequate vehicle fuel. The observatory staff is usually friendly for daytime visits. They drive large, high clearance SUV's or high clearance vans. The road is intermittently paved. One might get lucky and see a California condor. There is a re-introduction program, at a semisecret location in the San Pedro Martir National Park, for this endangered species. I saw two gliding in the distance, with binoculars, the last time I was there,toward evening, as they returned to roost.

Constitution Park (Laguna Hanson) is still good, at about 5000 feet. The Mexicali, Tecate , and San Diego-Tijuana light domes are small, and all to the north . The Ensenada dome to the WSW was negligible the last time I was there. But the access roads are rough and slow, particularly from the north. A pickup truck or SUV with good ground clearance would be better than an ordinary car or van. No need for 4-wheel drive. Security is good, with park ranger patrols around the usually mostly dry lake , and plenty of open, flat space. Many migratory birds stop there also. The campground can be well occupied on weekends, but there are no artificial lights , and the campsites are far apart. There are some dark spots for the adventurous off the very sparsely populated road between Ensenada and San Felipe, south and east of Ojos Negros, even while still in the agricultural Ojos Negros valley( but please be discreet) and, somewhat closer to Tecate, several miles east of the Ensenada-Tecate road, northeast of the wine growing Valle de Guadalupe. Some Spanish would be useful there, to explain to the rancher or farmer , if necessary, your activities, and to request permission for minor trespassing you may have done the night before. These rural people are easy-going, and, should you meet them before sundown, would likely welcome the chance to look throught your binoculars or telescope, or learn some constellations ( which they may already know in indigenous form if they are from Chiapas, Oaxaca, or Guerrero). A Maya from Chiapas, working in Ensenada, told me what his culture saw in the Orion stars( I do not remember what). I had driven to Ojos Negros with him and a Fuji 25 x 150.

The formerly dark views at the turnoff for the Salsipuedes campground and surfing area have been downgraded by the lights, just around the point, at the new terminal for liquid natural gas tankers. That was a good spot to stop on the way to Ensenada. I have not been to Punta Banda, south of Ensenada recently, but took some good Hale-Bopp comet photos there when above the fog.

There is an astronomy club which meets regularly at the cultural center in Tijuana. They have a dark(?) spot east of Tijuana, and may even go so far as to Canon Tajo, on the east side of the mountains . Members attend RTMC, often with friends from Mexico City. Prominent member Ingeniero Levy is well known on both side of the border for his promotion of amateur astronomy and light pollution control, as well as his expertise in astrophotography and Photoshop.

Edited by Gordon Rayner (09/16/08 12:53 AM)


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