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Eaiello1086
sage
Reged: 02/26/07
Posts: 382
Loc: Saugerties, NY and Oneonta, NY...
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Hopefully, since this post will have no relevance to Astronomy, it will be allowed to remain.
I recently purchased a new Dell Inspiron 1420 laptop that is running Vista. It has a 320gb HD, 4gb of ram, 2.0 T5750 Intel Core 2 Duo processor. I'm interested in dual booting Vista with Linux Ubuntu. I have no experience with Linux, but I am very interested in giving it a shot. I don't foresee having any trouble with Vista, and I have every intention of using it also.
So here are my questions:
1. Does partitioning the hard drive for the installation of another OS include any risks of data loss or hard disk damage?
2. Once I make the partition and dual boot, is it something that can be undone? Not just the removal of the OS, but the partition. Can the drive be put back together? If my understanding is correct, the partition is simply another letter for a piece of the same hard drive. So it will be as if I have multiple hard drives residing in a single unit. Yes?
3. Do any of you have experience with dual booting Linux and Vista? I have some tutorials to guide me through the process and it sounds rather easy. Although, I have read of some people having problems with the dual boot. Also, I have read that Vista uses a hefty amount of system resources (hence my 4 gb of ram), will my computer run two OSs smoothly?
4. If I install a program to one OS, it is not available in the other, correct?
Of course, if you have anything else to add, by all means, please do. 
My appreciation in advance for any advice/reply! 
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- Eric
Zhumell 10" DOB
Meade 60AZ-T
10mm Plossl, 13mm Stratus, 21mm Hyperion
Telrad
Oneonta, NY
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OldDeadOne
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/09/06
Posts: 1083
Loc: West Virginia
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I generally have a second hard drive dedicated to a operating system(Windows 2000 on one Windows 2003 on another),thus Vista on hard drive 1 and the linux OS of your choice on the 2nd hard drive(if you fubar your linux installation your Vista hard drive and all it's programs are safe). For partitioning I've used Partition Magic in the past(makes it easy to create and size and even delete partitions without losing data) I've never done 2 operating systems on one hard drive on a laptop,so someone will chime in hopefully that's done it before.
Edit: this is for XP but you could substitute Vista and read how this person attacks this : dual boot
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Bert O'Dell
PROUD GOTO USER
LX200 10" Classic
various meade plossi's eyepieces
Konig MX70 40mm" eyepiece
11mm T6
7mm T1
Insane under a full moon
I duck from Iron Skillets
Charleston WV clearsky
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Charlie B
super member
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Virginia
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Eric,
I have the same computer with 2GB ram running Vista. I have a dual boot XP system, but have not done so on my laptop.
Some questions I can answer.
You should not have a problem repartitioning the disk. However, be sure that you defragment the drive before you start. Read the instructions with Linux very carefully first. But there is "always" a risk of loss of data or damage to a hard drive. I would not risk it on my laptop, but, I would use an external firewire or usb hard drive instead.
I have never tried to remove a Linux partition, so I don't know how that will work, but an external drive would fix that.
I have not had problems with the dual boot. A window comes up and I select the drive to boot. The Linux is usually made the default.
Vista comes with all services enabled, which uses a lot of resources. The Dell program should have advised you to disable unused services or make them manual. If you did, Vista is about the same as XP with resources. In either case, when you boot Linux, it is your operating system and Vista does not use any resources because its not loaded.
Vista cannot read Linux, but Linux can read the Vista information. Using Wine, you can also execute Windows programs.
Regards,
Charlie
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Meade SN-8, DS-90, AT-66
DSI Pro II (Schuler Filters), DSI-C, LPI, Canon XTi
AIP4WIN, Nebulosity, DSS, Registrax, GIMP
running on Dell 1420 with Vista
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Eaiello1086
sage
Reged: 02/26/07
Posts: 382
Loc: Saugerties, NY and Oneonta, NY...
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I have a second hard drive, but it is external. Can I boot an OS from an external hard drive? This would mean it would run through a USB cable... that doesn't sound so efficient. Am I mistaken... would it work?
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- Eric
Zhumell 10" DOB
Meade 60AZ-T
10mm Plossl, 13mm Stratus, 21mm Hyperion
Telrad
Oneonta, NY
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Eaiello1086
sage
Reged: 02/26/07
Posts: 382
Loc: Saugerties, NY and Oneonta, NY...
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Thank you, Bert and Charlie.
My last post was made before I saw your post, Charlie. So I can boot Linux from my external hard drive? Will it suffer because of its running through USB?
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- Eric
Zhumell 10" DOB
Meade 60AZ-T
10mm Plossl, 13mm Stratus, 21mm Hyperion
Telrad
Oneonta, NY
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Charlie B
super member
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Virginia
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Quote:
So I can boot Linux from my external hard drive? Will it suffer because of its running through USB?
A little if the program running requires a lot of disk access, but you probably will not notice for most applications. The nice part of trying an external drive first is that, if you don't like it, you can reformat the disk and start over with little or no risk.
Charlie
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Meade SN-8, DS-90, AT-66
DSI Pro II (Schuler Filters), DSI-C, LPI, Canon XTi
AIP4WIN, Nebulosity, DSS, Registrax, GIMP
running on Dell 1420 with Vista
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tk89123
super member
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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I'm dual booting XP and Kubuntu Linux both on the same hard drive. If you just want to try Linux, many of the distributions come as a "live cd" which you can boot from the cd drive without installing anything. I tried 8 or nine different distributions before I settled on Kubuntu 7.10. You can use the partition applications included on the live cd if you decide to go for a full install of Linux. I would recommend that you defragment your hard drive under Windows and run a disk check application before you start shrinking the windows disk to partition it. Also make sure you backup your Windows installation before you shrink it's disk, just in case. I had no problem doing mine and have mostly given up on Windows except for 2 or three applications that require Windows. To keep this somewhat astro related, I had heard about Kstars and wanted to try it for myself and really do like it. Works great on this old M700 laptop, PIII 850mhz, 320mb ram, 20gb disk.
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"My God, it's full of stars!"
Tom Kilgore
Las Vegas, NV
Meade 8" SCT 2080B
Orion 102mm Apex Mak
Meade 114mm F8 Newtonian
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The bear
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/11/08
Posts: 727
Loc: rushville, indiana
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really basically repartitioning a hard drive and installing Linux is no different than on a desktop vs. a laptop i have been through a few Linux dual boot systems and have always installed Linux first then a windows product with no problems per se. i have unbuntu the new one as yet have not tried it but i am almost sure all version of Linux are basically the same. it is correct that windows will not see unbuntu and you can make it where unbuntu can see windows directories and files as per the older versions of Linux. the external can me used and booted from if you choose this route i think this will be my route cause i am running a windows 2000 pro version on my laptop not that familiar with windows vista it has some issues but nothing that cannot be over come. i would read and do a little research in case there is some issues that you might not be aware of by going to the unbuntu site and checking it out for problems with vista installs might even answer you questions sort of straight from the horse kind of thing. but i can say anytime you mess with operating system make sure you back up your important data you never know what gremlins will show up even on an install to an external call me cautious or wary but better safe than sorry. doc
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Longitude -85.42786 Latitude 39.59153
when all else fails use duct tape "works for me"
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tk89123
super member
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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To remove Linux, use your partitioning application to delete or reformat the Linux partition, use your Windows cd to boot with and you can reclaim the boot loader area of the disk for Windows, choose repair, then use fdisk to repair the master boot record and Linux will be gone.
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"My God, it's full of stars!"
Tom Kilgore
Las Vegas, NV
Meade 8" SCT 2080B
Orion 102mm Apex Mak
Meade 114mm F8 Newtonian
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Eaiello1086
sage
Reged: 02/26/07
Posts: 382
Loc: Saugerties, NY and Oneonta, NY...
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Thanks, everyone, for the replies. My laptop should be here tomorrow. I will possibly consider doing the dual boot right away. This way I will have little to back up and worry about. I will also consider booting from my external.
Tom, you made the suggestion of running the OS from a live cd. Can I download image files of these live cds? Or do I have to order them? I looked for one for Ubuntu, but I was unable to find one. I will look for other distributions.
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- Eric
Zhumell 10" DOB
Meade 60AZ-T
10mm Plossl, 13mm Stratus, 21mm Hyperion
Telrad
Oneonta, NY
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16396
Loc: Brooker, FL
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Although I don't dual-boot, I partition EVERY HDD on any computer I've ever built for customers or myself, and do the same for the pre-built laptops. If the FAT on any one partition dies (very unlikely with NTFS), one loses only the data on that drive (which you backed up religiously, dincha', Bippy?).
So I'd make the Linux partion fairly large, and expect to keep it after Linux's removal.
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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tk89123
super member
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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Just do a web search for Linux Live CD. You'll get lots of hits. Virtually all distributions of Linux are available free to download, many of them are Live CD's including all the versions of Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu. Just download the correct version for your hardware and burn the .ISO to a cd and away you go. Check out DistroWatch to search for Live CD Linux versions as well as reviews of different versions.
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"My God, it's full of stars!"
Tom Kilgore
Las Vegas, NV
Meade 8" SCT 2080B
Orion 102mm Apex Mak
Meade 114mm F8 Newtonian
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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If you want to get a live CD you can also go to your local bookstore and find a Linux magazine that contains the live CD. Many of the publications include a shrink-wrapped Live CD of several distros along with the magazine.
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Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Eaiello1086
sage
Reged: 02/26/07
Posts: 382
Loc: Saugerties, NY and Oneonta, NY...
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Thanks, everyone, for the replies. I will look for a LiveCD soon. My system arrived today. Lo' and behold there is a problem  . My LCD screen flickers consistently. I have read that if I cannot change the refresh rate (my display is set at 60 Hertz - where an LCD should be), then it is likely that my LCD is defective and will have to go back. Looks like it's a second waiting game. Joy!
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- Eric
Zhumell 10" DOB
Meade 60AZ-T
10mm Plossl, 13mm Stratus, 21mm Hyperion
Telrad
Oneonta, NY
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spoolboyy
super member
Reged: 08/01/05
Posts: 184
Loc: Lewiston, Idaho
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http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
here is the OFFICIAL download page for Ubuntu. You can also torrent the file. what version of Ubuntu do you want to run?
xubuntu, kubuntu and ubuntu 8.04 can be installed within windows and uninstalled just as easily. Its a new feature that makes this sort of testing easy and more permanent than a live cd if you want to try it a bit more long term.
if you'd rather install to your hard drive on a separate partition, you should defrag windows a couple times (or more if your system has been installed for a long time). I know this helps in XP but haven't tried vista, to ensure that your files are compacted well.
when I install Linux (any distro) I have a partition for "/", one for "/home" and a "swap" partition. /home is like "my documents" but it also holds lots of settings and preferences. When I upgraded from kubuntu 7.04 to kubuntu 8.04, all of my internet favorites were there, of course my documents and such as well, and even some of my desktop customizations survived the upgrade. applications you will have to reinstall, but this allows you to maintain your data should you choose to try a new linux distribution or version of ubuntu.
good luck! and let us know if you have any questions.
-adam
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//ADAM
Celestron 'Hopper 6"
Galileo 120mm Reflector
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JoeFnew
member
Reged: 03/01/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Moving About
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Be careful!
I have been running Linux as my main OS for over 10 years now and hope to continue doing so.
However "Linux" is becoming too Windows like in my opinion.
That is the main distros (Live and as found on magazine CD's) attempt to provide a drop in replacement with the bonus of free apps like Open Officeand the Gimp et al as a free and workable alternative (which is all to the good). What they no longer do is give you the low level applications and control which has always been the halmark of linux and there is always the assumption in the accompanying UK magazine blurb that you will have these.
eg, how do I compile a program?
answer
./make
./configure
./install
etc
except if you dont have GCC which few seem to ship with today then you are up a creek without paddles.
The truth is you obtain a distro of Linux and then over time customise it to your own needs which will last you many years, but without GCC grep awk mc etc etc you are forced into the old upgrade cycle we were all trying to get away from in the first place.
Perhaps I'm just getting cynical, but get a good book, decide whether you want an rpm or deb based system and then forget about upgrading to the latest greatest version. Linux is about building and incrementally upgrading your own box, not reinstalling and rebuilding.
Joe
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Don't be fooled by the low post count, I used to be someone else, but then I forgot who I was!
Equipment - only what I can carry!
Opticron 10x50
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