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Ragaisis
member
Reged: 05/16/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Mequon, WI
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Viper vs. Razor? It sounds like a monster movie title.
Hi, gang. I could use some of your opinions. I've alluded to this in another thread, but I didn't want to hijack it. So I thought that I'd just start a new one and ask...
I'm looking to upgrade my Celestron Outland LX 10x50 porros. I wanted something easy to hand hold for scanning the sky and locating objects, but I take the binocs out daily as I walk the dog just to take a look at nature. I also wanted something rugged, waterproof, and a decent field of view. Oh, and an upgrade in optics would be nice.
I've read a number of reviews, and like what I've heard of the Vortex line. They get good marks for about every category and their warranty is nice. I was pretty much convinced to try the 8x42 Vipers. I also liked what I saw about the 8x42 Razor (especially the 410ft field of view), but at 50% more money, I just thought that I'd live with the Viper choice. The $500 price point is most attractive to me. But I still have that doubt as to which to choose.
So, can anyone tell me the optical difference between the Viper and the Razor? I've seen rave reviews of the Viper, good ones of the Razor, but NOTHING that compares the lines. And the nearest shop that sells Vortex bins is about 2 hours from here (Eagle Optics in Madison, WI).
You folks seem to have a handle on a wide range of equipment, so I'd be interested to hear if anyone has tried them both.
Thanks,
Chris
-------------------- Televue TV85 APO
Vortex Razor 8x42
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Mark9473
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 2521
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Chris, if by any chance you happen to read Italian, take a look at http://www.binomania.it./ If Polish is your thing, look at optyczyne.pl; there's a thread on this forum that explains some of the tests.
-------------------- Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50
WO Megrez II 80 FD
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werewolf6977
Lord High Smasher
   
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 7037
Loc: Hanover, Ohio
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Wonder if Holger Merlitz has anything to say???
-------------------- Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop
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KennyJ
   
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9959
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< Wonder if Holger Merlitz has anything to say??? >
Holger gave the Viper very low points for it's narrow true field of view .
I actually have a Vortex Viper 8.5 x 50 on it's way to me as I type -- on loan for a few weeks .
Due to circumstances , it could be 10 days before I get my hands on it now , but I intend to write a short review of it when I've tried it over a few days and nights .
Of course this does nothing to help Chris with his selection process , as I've never seen any of the Razors either .
Given the price difference , and the wider field of view , I would have thought the Razor would be a better choice , but I'm certainly looking forward to spending a bit of time with the 8.5 x 50 Viper .
Good luck Kenny
-------------------- Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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holger_merlitz
sage
   
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 281
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Kenny, you are right, it is essentially the narrow field of view of the Viper which makes it less attractive. The 10x42 is an exception, it is almost as wide as the Razor. Incidentally, I have used the 10x42 Viper and found it quite OK, apart from the focuser (which was hardly reaching up to the infinity setting and also had some mechanical play so that it required a frequent resetting of the diopter wheel) and some residual stray light. If I had to go for a 10x42, I would choose the Viper over the Razor, because of the price, regarding the 8x42 or 10x50 the Razor would be preferable.
So far, all Vortex binoculars which I have seen had some issues with their focuser. It seems that Vortex, despite of their decent optical quality, has got some troubles with their mechanical engineering. Therefore, I would spend a little more money and get a Docter B/CF or the Meopta Meostar.
Cheers,
Holger
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Ragaisis
member
Reged: 05/16/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Mequon, WI
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Thanks to everyone who shared bits of advice and opinions on the Vortex Razor vs. Viper thread.
I ended up getting a used set of 8x42 Razors. The price point was about 25% more than the Vipers, so I took a leap of faith…
I am by no means anything but a beginner when it comes to comparing binoculars. And I know that people say that you can’t compare different units with different magnifications and different objective sizes. But I’ll give the impressions that I can from what I saw on my first use yesterday evening.
To start with, all the things that you’ve heard about the Razor are true – and one of those things you heard isn’t.
The Razor is well made, solidly built, waterproof and fogproof, and performs up to the expectations set by the advertising. The image quality is easily better than my old Celestron Outland LX 10x50 porros. It provides sharper images across the field with better color and a significantly better depth of field. They are also easier to hand hold being about the same weight as the 10x50 but having less magnification.
I also have a Canon 12x36 IS. The Razor outperformed it optically in terms of brightness (not unexpected given the larger objective and smaller magnification), contrast, and depth of field and sharpness of image. However, image stabilization on the Canon is a thing of beauty. It is the _only_ thing about the Cannon that is superior.
Eye relief was plenty for me – and I wear glasses. In fact, I used the very nice feature of the Razor’s multiple level twist up click stops for the eye cups; extended them by 6 clicks and I can place them directly against my glasses for perfect eye relief. Cool.
The real test for me was under the night sky. Seeing was terrible – only very small sucker holes every once in a while so all I got to look at were a few of the brighter stars and some shots of Saturn.
The sky in the Razor wasn’t as black as either the Celestron or the Canon. Once again, this was expected because of the lower magnification. But the stars resolved to pin points across the entire field. I _think_ I saw some elongation in Saturn – a nice indicator of the resolution power of this unit. Saturn shows the same through the Canons when image stabilized, but I’d need some outside verification that this isn’t just wishful thinking on my part. Both of those units show it distinctly as a planet, though. The Celestron just shows Saturn as a very bright, non-twinkling star.
Image stabilization is still extremely helpful when looking at the sky and where the Canon shines the most. However the view through the Vipers was so nice that I was able to tolerate the shaking for those few moments when my body cooperated and things settled out.
Finally, the large angular field of view is a thing of beauty at 7.8 degrees. Getting a lot of the sky in the field of view at once is one of the major reasons I use binoculars for astronomy. Nothing else I’ve used comes close to that.
I didn’t get a chance to hunt for DSOs. That will have to wait for a clearer night. But the Razors are definitely a “keeper” and will be the glasses I take to the field.
Oh, and the thing you’ve heard that _isn’t_ true… The central focus worked smoothly and easily. I can’t imagine anybody having a problem with it.
Thanks again for your advice and support,
Chris
-------------------- Televue TV85 APO
Vortex Razor 8x42
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holger_merlitz
sage
   
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 281
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Hi Chris,
Thanks a lot for your first impressions! Good to hear that your Razor has got no issues with its focuser - perhaps, they are meanwhile getting grip on that? Maybe they read my last year's test report :-)
You wrote: "But the stars resolved to pin points across the entire field..."
Frankly, I haven't seen any binocular so far which would perform that well, and the 8x42 Razor I have tested last year delivered pin point star images within about 2/3 of the field, which is not bad when considering the fairly wide angle of view, but not outstanding either.
Altogether I agree that the Vortex Razor is a good choice for the money - have fun!
Holger
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Ragaisis
member
Reged: 05/16/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Mequon, WI
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Quote:
Hi Chris,
You wrote: "But the stars resolved to pin points across the entire field..."
Frankly, I haven't seen any binocular so far which would perform that well, and the 8x42 Razor I have tested last year delivered pin point star images within about 2/3 of the field, which is not bad when considering the fairly wide angle of view, but not outstanding either.
As I said, just my impressions on a first viewing and under rather ugly conditions. I'll revisit this when the "new car smell" wears off and I can be a bit more objective.
I appreciate everybody's comments.
Chris
-------------------- Televue TV85 APO
Vortex Razor 8x42
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GlenM
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 786
Loc: 53° 36'N 2° 06'W
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Nice report Chris.I've always been happy with my Razors. I think the problem with the centre focus was sorted out before I got mine 12 months ago.
-------------------- Glen
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