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amys
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/12/06
Posts: 1768
Loc: Groton, CT
Sphinx tune-up and Version 2
      #2436677 - 06/03/08 07:45 AM

I got a Sphinx SXW mount last April, which seemed to work perfectly from the start. I had only my Vixen ED80Sf at the time. When I got my 7" Mak, however, I could see that slow speed slewing in DEC was quite jerky. Still, go-tos and tracking were quite good. During the winter, however, the mount really started to slow down and I only used my little refractor on it. Moving it from north to the home position (pointing west) would take about a minute, and slewing from one object to another seemed quite slow.

I contacted Vixen support about these problems and was told that I had inadequate power and that I should use an AC adapter. I didn't buy this since the power had been adequate BEFORE, and I tried every one of the my 3 12v batteries with the same result.

I was considering sending it to Vixen a few weeks ago for these problems but decided instead to have Steve Forbes (Telesccopeman54) do one of his tune-ups. Steve loosened the DEC and RA axes so that balancing is much easier. He found that there was virtually no lubricant on the bearing under the saddle, and that it was starting to wear. He replaced the bearing, cleaned and re-lubricated all the necessary parts with a higher quality lubricant and adjusted the gears and worms. End result: a much quieter and faster Sphinx. It now gets to the home position in about 15 seconds.

However, Steve was not able to eliminate the DEC jitters and concluded that the motor was probably defective. He contacted Vixen and their answer was: download Version 2 of the firmware. I had been running Build 31. Last Wednesday, I had the Sphinx and Mak out for hours. The go-tos were perfect and after I got the balance right, tracking was perfect with Build 31 and I was very skeptical that different firmware was going to stop making the DEC motor jump around.

Last Friday, I headed up to Steve's place to see if he wanted to try making any additional adjustments to the DEC gears. But first, we decided to update my Starbook with Version 2. Steve had already downloaded the file to his computer. That process took all of about 2 minutes.

We connected the Starbook back to the Sphinx and discovered that the mount is even quieter now when it slews and slow speed slewing in DEC was noticeably smoother. Not perfectly smooth but smoother. So we decided to leave everything as it was and have me try it out for a night before making any decisions as to whether to replace the DEC motor.

So I finally got out last night to try it out. It was very calm, transparency was good and the seeing was supposed to be good. I set my tripod up so the feet were on the marks I made on the driveway that provide an adequate polar alignment so that go-tos are accurate. I tried to start my alignment process before it got dark, as I often do. Unfortunately, the go-tos were lousy all night and so was tracking. I'd repeatedly go back to the same object and sometimes it wouldn't be in the field of view of the eyepiece, although it usually was visible in the finder scope. If it was in the field of view, it wasn't centered. And this is after aligning several objects with a 9mm reticle eyepiece. and realigning on the same object after returning to it. I tried adjusting the counterweights up and down the shaft but nothing seemed to help with the tracking.

Another annoying thing: the appearance of the Starbook has changed with version 2. It's much harder for me to read. And navigating around it is much slower.

I'll give it one more night and pay closer attention to my polar alignment. If the go-tos and tracking are not noticeably better, I'll try to find a computer with Windows installed on it and download Build 35 instead to see if that helps with the go-tos and tracking. If not, I'll reinstall Build 31 and deal with the jerky slewing.

One thing I am happy about: with Steve's efforts, the mount is easier to balance, slews faster and quieter, and I know that the parts that should be lubricated are actually lubricated. Steve also adjusted the backlash of the gears so the mount responds much more quickly. I can tell you that if I decide to have the DEC motor replaced, I'll ask Steve to do it rather than sending it to Vixen.

THANK YOU STEVE.

--------------------
Amy



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skyler
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/16/06
Posts: 1359
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: amys]
      #2436917 - 06/03/08 10:38 AM

Great info and story Amy. Thanks for the share.

S


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RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 819
Loc: Clouds-ville, Virginia
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: amys]
      #2437362 - 06/03/08 02:35 PM

Ouch.

I am so sorry to hear of your continuing problems with this mount and I think you have shown a lot of patience with Vixen in this matter.

It sure would be nice if you could just walk outside, set up your gear, and simply enjoy an evening with the stars. I hope it happens for you soon.

Please keep us informed.

Ron

--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.

Orion XT10i / Moonlite CR2 -- The New "Time Machine"
"Hi Def" TV-102
C925-CF SCT

Ethos and Naglers
GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier


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amys
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/12/06
Posts: 1768
Loc: Groton, CT
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: RAKing]
      #2437651 - 06/03/08 04:50 PM

Hi, Ron.

That's the way it was when I was out last week before I updated the Starbook -- perfect go-tos, excellent tracking. So I think my troubles last night are simply firmware-related. Now if I can just find a PC so I can download the earlier version of the firmware and change the Starbook back!

--------------------
Amy



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sctchun
member


Reged: 03/26/06
Posts: 45
Loc: HI
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: amys]
      #2437949 - 06/03/08 07:09 PM

Hi Amy,

Thanks for the update. Hope you get your problems resolved.

Steven

--------------------
Meade 8" LX200-R (ACF)
Meade Series 5000 80mm
Vixen Sphinx SXW


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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
*****

Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: sctchun]
      #2439418 - 06/04/08 01:35 PM

Amy:

Thank you for the kind words regarding my work. I agree that the new software is what has caused a well performing mount to go bad. When I tested the mount for two nights it was spot on each time. Nothing was done to it since then other than installing the new software. I fully expect that once you restore the original software, the GOTO problems will be resolved.

If I can be of further service to you, or anyone else, please, contact me.

CS

Steve

--------------------
Steve Forbes

6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
2x 6" f/6 Edmund Palomar reflectors on GEMs w/ RA and DEC drives
2x 4-1/4" Edmund Palomar Jr. reflectors on GEMS w/ RA drives, (all circa 1965 - 69)
3" Edmund reflector on "EQ" mount from @1963
4" Criterion reflector with "EQ" mount from @1956.
150mm f/12 MAK w/iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!


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amys
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/12/06
Posts: 1768
Loc: Groton, CT
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: Telescopeman54]
      #2449203 - 06/09/08 12:55 PM

Just an update on my go-to and tracking problems after we downloaded Version 2 onto my Starbook:

I borrowed a friend's PC and downloaded both Build 31 and the newer Build 35, which preceded Version 2. For some reaon, I couldn't reinstall Build 31 onto my Starbook so I installed Build 35. This eliminated all the problems I was having with inaccurate go-tos and very poor tracking with Version 2.

So to those Sphinx owners running either Build 31 or Build 35, my advice would be to avoid Version 2. Yes, slewing was smoother and the mount was quieter with Version 2 but those qualities don't do any good if the mount can't locate objects and keep them in the FOV.

--------------------
Amy



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scope dog
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/26/04
Posts: 1173
Loc: USA, NJ
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: amys]
      #2449337 - 06/09/08 01:52 PM

Hi Amy,
Going back to the voltage issue. Now, I think Steve used the same power pack? His report said the goto's were working good. I work for a power company and if there is a voltage issues at your receptacle, home, or neighborhood, this could reflect causing a low voltage issue with the motors. This time of year power companies may go into voltage reduction or maintance pending. The powerpacks can't regulate power and are at a set ratio, so this can be directly related. The best bet is to take a voltage reading where you plug the pack into. If it's something like 110V and not like 120V then is something is going on. I personally use a regulated power supply, but I use a large power pack 4 amp too. 80% of the time the powerpack works good except when it's too cold. The regulated power supply always works good, but it's bigger.

--------------------
Jim Fusco



Astreya 152mm F/7 SAPO
Santel MK91
Astreya-SAPO


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RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 819
Loc: Clouds-ville, Virginia
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: amys]
      #2449400 - 06/09/08 02:24 PM

Quote:

So to those Sphinx owners running either Build 31 or Build 35, my advice would be to avoid Version 2. Yes, slewing was smoother and the mount was quieter with Version 2 but those qualities don't do any good if the mount can't locate objects and keep them in the FOV.




Well my head is certainly spinning, trying to keep up with the latest/earliest Builds and Versions.

Please call Vixen and see if you can talk to someone about these firmware issues. I am a Systems Engineer, dealing with aerospace stuff, and I would really like to know if any of my systems are on the fritz. I am sure there are a few people at Vixen who feel the same way.

I also hope this closes a dark chapter in your astro life.

Ron

--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.

Orion XT10i / Moonlite CR2 -- The New "Time Machine"
"Hi Def" TV-102
C925-CF SCT

Ethos and Naglers
GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier


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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
*****

Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: scope dog]
      #2449426 - 06/09/08 02:31 PM

Jim:

That is an excellent point! With everyone running AC at this time, it is possible that it could introduce some irregularities in the main supply. I have never found that it ever got hot enough to use AC here in New England, though. Heck! I don't even OWN an air conditioner! I've got one in my truck, but, I don't even know if it works! LOL!

I used my Motorola 30 amp regulated bench supply when I was running the Vixen. I also had a Celestron CG-5GT AND my Atlas running at the same time. When she was here I only had the Vixen and the GT plugged into the bench supply.

It is a possibility that there is a power issued, but, since the problem arose with the installation of V 2.0 and then went away after it was removed, it's a pretty fair bet that the software is the real culprit.

CS

Steve

--------------------
Steve Forbes

6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
2x 6" f/6 Edmund Palomar reflectors on GEMs w/ RA and DEC drives
2x 4-1/4" Edmund Palomar Jr. reflectors on GEMS w/ RA drives, (all circa 1965 - 69)
3" Edmund reflector on "EQ" mount from @1963
4" Criterion reflector with "EQ" mount from @1956.
150mm f/12 MAK w/iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!


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sctchun
member


Reged: 03/26/06
Posts: 45
Loc: HI
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: Telescopeman54]
      #2449546 - 06/09/08 03:32 PM

Hi Amy,

Thanks for the update, I have Build 35 and I'll downgrade my Sphinx tonight.

As of the power issue others are mentioning, a good mid to high quality UPS (I highly recommend APC) does have voltage regulation, plus it could be used as a power source when the power goes out.

Steven

--------------------
Meade 8" LX200-R (ACF)
Meade Series 5000 80mm
Vixen Sphinx SXW


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scope dog
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/26/04
Posts: 1173
Loc: USA, NJ
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: Telescopeman54]
      #2449609 - 06/09/08 04:05 PM

Hi Steve,
Amy mention power pack and you mention regulated power supply. I have a feeling your supply offered a better voltage. Your 30 amp supply could start a car:) Now if the skybook is in RA and DEC chart mode one motor runs at a time. The other alt-az causes both motors to run at the same time. If the voltage is down, this will cause a jerk motion. Basicly things slow down until the voltage builds up over and over.
Ver2.0 should be better as the mounts are shipped with it. but, I'm not sure if the defult is RA/dac or Alt/az.
The 3.0 amp powerpack is ok if everything is good, but I think it's what is causing the issue. The regulated power supply you have is a constant 13.8V and that is what makes a difference. Japan uses 100V 50 and 60hz pending loaction. web page I wounder if this is the powerpack Amy is using.

--------------------
Jim Fusco



Astreya 152mm F/7 SAPO
Santel MK91
Astreya-SAPO


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amys
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/12/06
Posts: 1768
Loc: Groton, CT
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: scope dog]
      #2449799 - 06/09/08 05:29 PM

I've been using either a Celestron Powertank or a Black and Decker Start-it battery -- both 12V. As Steve said, since the go-tos and tracking were excellent with Build 31 and Build 35 but horrible with Version 2, and since I was using the same power supply all the time, I'm pointing the finger at Version 2. It may be, however, that all features of the mount might work better with a better power supply.

Some people are running version 2 and have been happy with it. I'll stick with Build 35 for now. Vixen customer support had recommended that I get the AC adapter but I tried to order the SXW version and none was available.

So what do folks recommend as a better alternative to the Powertank for a portable power source?

--------------------
Amy



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Mike D
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 08/15/07
Posts: 855
Loc: South GA
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: amys]
      #2449827 - 06/09/08 05:37 PM

Quote:

So what do folks recommend as a better alternative to the Powertank for a portable power source?




A marine battery ought to do the trick if your not getting enough power from a powertank. Personally I've always used an inverter running from my car battery with Vixen's AC adapter, but I wouldn't recommend that unless you have a manual transmission and can jump start at 4:00 a.m. (luckily, I haven't had to do that yet, but I'd hate to be stuck.)

I also got my mount with build 37, which was very jerky in RA, so I asked on the Yahoo Sphinx group, and the general consensus is that 35 is the best performing build.

Hope that helps!

-Mike D

--------------------
Vixen SXD
Vixen ED80Sf
Hutech 350D
STI Stiletto
Meade 2080


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Telescopeman54
Vendor - Trapezium Telescopes & Services, LLC.
*****

Reged: 08/17/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: Mike D]
      #2450040 - 06/09/08 07:26 PM

After we loaded V2.0 I noticed the extreme jerkyness right away and we were still on my bench supply. I'm going to agree with Amy that the power supply is not the issue. yes, it was day time when we tested the mount, but, it was quite different that earlier.

Amy, if you need a GOOD remote power supply, I can show you the rig that I have used in the field. It never fails, EVER!

CS

Steve

--------------------
Steve Forbes

6.25" f/15 Mogey/NASA refractor on GOTO GEM
6" f/15 Jaegers refractor on GOTO GEM
5.1" f/8 Burgess on CG-5 w/GOTONOVA
4" f/15 Jaegers on ORION ATLAS GOTO
2x 6" f/6 Edmund Palomar reflectors on GEMs w/ RA and DEC drives
2x 4-1/4" Edmund Palomar Jr. reflectors on GEMS w/ RA drives, (all circa 1965 - 69)
3" Edmund reflector on "EQ" mount from @1963
4" Criterion reflector with "EQ" mount from @1956.
150mm f/12 MAK w/iOptron Mini Tower
Lots of other stuff, too!


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scope dog
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/26/04
Posts: 1173
Loc: USA, NJ
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: Mike D]
      #2450057 - 06/09/08 07:33 PM

Mike
Did you notice if there was difference regarding chart mode?

Amy, before you do anything, get a digital volt meter. Many places sell the small pocket type under $15, sears radio-shack, target? This could answer a lot of question.
1st rule of trouble shooting is to test the power.

--------------------
Jim Fusco



Astreya 152mm F/7 SAPO
Santel MK91
Astreya-SAPO


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sctchun
member


Reged: 03/26/06
Posts: 45
Loc: HI
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: scope dog]
      #2450086 - 06/09/08 07:49 PM

Amy,

There was some conversations on the Meade yahoo groups about using the Celestron powertanks and one member suggested that you should stay away from them. Anyway, most of the current Black and Decker powertanks are manufactured by Vector which are very well made.

I use a Vector 450 battery on my setup.

Steven

--------------------
Meade 8" LX200-R (ACF)
Meade Series 5000 80mm
Vixen Sphinx SXW


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amys
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/12/06
Posts: 1768
Loc: Groton, CT
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: sctchun]
      #2450533 - 06/09/08 10:43 PM

REcently, I've been running the mount off the Black and Decker and using the Powertank, with its 2 ports, to power the Mak's fan and my dew strips.

Just an FYI: I was out for a little while tonight. I tried using a compass to polar align while it was still light out. I told the mount to slew to the moon -- nearly perfect. Same with Saturn. Go-tos were excellent for the 2 hours that I was out. I had some issues with tracking but I think I just didn't balance very well. It was good enough that Saturn was still centered in the eyepiece after I walked my neighbor home, came back, returned to his house and came back again.

I played around with the backlash settings, which were way off after I downloaded Build 35. The mount is now responding much more quickly at slow slew speeds. Slow speed slewing in RA in nice and smooth. Still a little jerky in DEC but I can live with it.

--------------------
Amy



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Mike D
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 08/15/07
Posts: 855
Loc: South GA
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: scope dog]
      #2450608 - 06/09/08 11:17 PM

Quote:

Mike
Did you notice if there was difference regarding chart mode?






Build 37 and build 35 are identical regarding the starbook, but I've never switched from EQ mode to ALT/AZ.

--------------------
Vixen SXD
Vixen ED80Sf
Hutech 350D
STI Stiletto
Meade 2080


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amys
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/12/06
Posts: 1768
Loc: Groton, CT
Re: Sphinx tune-up and Version 2 new [Re: Mike D]
      #2451044 - 06/10/08 07:40 AM

In alt/Az mode, the Starbook screen is a lot easer to read. However, the mount acts like it doesn't know how to move. Not good.

--------------------
Amy



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