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rolandlinda3
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/24/06
Posts: 1612
Loc: Crozet VA 22932
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For newbies and those just interested, I am providing links to sketches in this post with 2 different setups to give folks an idea what can be observed and enjoyed but also to see the advantages/disadvantages of aperture (or lack therof). First, realize that small aperture with astro-video cameras is delightful and portable, so we use it. But larger aperture does magnify detail and give you lots to look at--albeit with a narrower field of view. I use both, but the explanation and the sketches may give readers some comparative idea of what can be enjoyed for typical Messier objects. Last introductory note: the small aperture example in this case was under conditions when most EP folks close up shop because the detail of what they want to see is too washed out by haze and clouds. But, that is the joy of using astro video: if the conditions are marginal, one just keeps on truckin'.
SETUP #1: SV102ED (4 inch ref); MallinCAM Pro Dob Video Camera with focal reducer and extension but zoom on (net Mag: 132X); 14 s integration with AGC @ 40% scale; poor viewing conditions SKETCH: M104 June 2008
SETUP #2: 12.5 inch f4.5 Dob with platform; MallinCAM Hyper Color with focal reducer and set at 14 s integration; AGC not recorded but probably 1/3 scale SKETCH: M104 Sketch - Spring 07
Notes:
1. Note that the images are inverted relative to each other. Note the star just above the 104 nucleus on #1 and the star seemingly partially immersed in the nucleus glow in #2. This is the same star so it gives you an idea of the difference in the extent of the galaxy that is pulled out. While the cameras and setups are different, the Pro Dob chip is pretty sensitive so it is comparable in sensitivity. Since I was using 14 s integration with nearly 1/2 scale gain, the galaxy is still nicely pulled through the sky conditions. The basic shape and dust lane could easily be seen in both. In short, 4 inches does pretty well with the camera; 12.5 inches of aperture (I remember the night) nearly blows you socks off with more detail and a bigger image. With 12.5 inches aperture (and a bit better camera--the Hyper Color) I could see a much more robust galaxy shape and extent.
2. The width of the dust lane widens at the east end of the galaxy (our "eye" point of view). The widening is detectable with both setups. In contrast, this is hard to see using eyes and a good EP with 4 inches of aperture. See O'Meara's description in his wonderful book on Messier objects. He is a better observer than I am and provides an excellent description of what he can see with his 4 inch f/5 Genesis refractor and good EPs. The dust lane is hard to define with eyes alone with a decent amount of contrast.
3. If you look closely, you can see "knots" in the brighter side on either side of the nucleus of my sketch with the 4 inch setup. O'Meara makes note of them; I can see them easily with Setup #1 but they were almost washed out (too much integration) on Setup #2. I was not as experienced sketching in Spring 07 so I am sure I could have found them and studied/sketched them if I could do the observation period again. Suffice it to say, however, that the 4 inch does respectably well -- especially under the conditions of high clouds that were reducing the camera's ability to deliver an image I could study and sketch.
4. Aperture helps detail; small aperture provides lesser detail but a nicer field. So, no surprise, which setup you use depends on which object you want to chase down. It was enjoyable to see 104 hanging among the stars; the view is not possible with my 12.5 f4.5 setup.
4. Note the M13 sketch at the bottom of the top sketch (done with the 4 inch refractor). With poor conditions, I consider the view pretty good. On a good night last year with the Pro Dob on M13 and using the 12.5 Dob, we could count over 900 stars. When we did that, 4 people counted 1/4 of the clock area, we averaged, and multiplied by 4. To me, that is really good. Again, aperture delivers resolution ability and the camera captures the advantage. Of course, 4 inch does good too and provides better field of view (see the first sketch). I did not see near as many stars, but still saw a pleasing view and was able to "map" the surrounding field. With the 12.5 Dob, the field is much reduced.
None of these comments should be a real surprise, but it serves as a reminder that the heavens can be enjoyed under reasonably wide conditions with astro video tools using nearly any aperture. There are advantages to small and large aperture depend on the object one wants to examine. This summer, I will choose the 4 inch refractor to map and sketch the big nebula in Sag. but use the 12.5 to get details of the dark lanes and features in certain places in the object.
Enjoy your video cameras. In case anyone wonders how this much detail can be seen, I recommend getting a sketch pad and start sketching because it encourages more than a glance at these wonderful sky objects.
Clear skies.
Roland
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Chris Schroeder
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/11/04
Posts: 5098
Loc: N.E. WI Sky Glow
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Thanks Roland, a great way to see what we can see. I plan on using my 4" on a GEM as my portable "take to star parties" mount
-------------------- Chris
Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
10" DSH with SC DSC, CPC 800 XLT
M102ED S.V., ZS 80FD 10th Anniv, ZS 66SD, PST
POD XL3 http://POD.SchroederCity.com
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sabir
sage
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 467
Loc: Pune (India)
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Hi Roland,
Thank you for this great post!!
This gives me a good idea of what to expect. I have an Orion XT10i which I plan to use with a MHCP down the road (God willing) ...still take some before I have collectd enough for the platform and camera
I really like your sketches!! My favourite is your M42 sketch "The skies proclaim the work of His hands ... Psalm 19"... WOW! 
Sabir
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rolandlinda3
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/24/06
Posts: 1612
Loc: Crozet VA 22932
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Thanks Sabir and Chris. Sabir, you will be very please with what 10 inches of aperture brings you with a platform underneath. Keep an eye our for used platforms; they are quite often for sale and generally stay in very good shape. Chris, the SV102 (like yours) is flat out wonderful for summer viewing in Sag. with the Hyper Color -- judging from what I could see with the 4 inch in Orion. I expect a little less density of color but the expanse of these objects should be very easily captured. Let me know how you do with it. When the time comes, I will try to get a few sketches done in that region before we head to Uganda in September. Roland
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Chris Schroeder
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/11/04
Posts: 5098
Loc: N.E. WI Sky Glow
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Great Roland, and thank you, I'm still on the wait list though, but our club does some public outreach and I can't wait to use the MCH for that.
-------------------- Chris
Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
10" DSH with SC DSC, CPC 800 XLT
M102ED S.V., ZS 80FD 10th Anniv, ZS 66SD, PST
POD XL3 http://POD.SchroederCity.com
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sabir
sage
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 467
Loc: Pune (India)
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Hi Roland,  I cant wait to see what 10" + MHCP can show  I bought my scope used, and i'm very pleased with it. I would definately consider a used platform, but I live in India and my latitude is about 18 deg. North. I'd have to be really lucky for a used platform for that latitude to come up for sale 
By the way, Brian Reed of RTP has recently introduced a Dual-Axis platform, which is relatively afordable... looking forward to it
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ScottAz
Fleet Navigator
   
Reged: 02/06/05
Posts: 1143
Loc: Millington, TN
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Thanks, Roland! I certainly appreciate the comparison and commentary. I was just on the phone -- moments ago -- with Brian Reed of RTP and he was telling me how much he has been enjoying BOTH of his MallinCAMs. He uses one on his 10" scope and one (3-deg FOV) on its finder ... and can switch back and forth on his monitor. It sounded so cool, I just had to take a look at this forum!
-------------------- Scott Azmus
SV80BV, NexStar 11, & 18" Obsession
Many Views Yield Truth
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rolandlinda3
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/24/06
Posts: 1612
Loc: Crozet VA 22932
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Thanks for the comments. Sounds like some folks are enjoying small aperture as well as the larger setups. That is good. Among our 4 inch, 8 inch, and 12.5 inch, our time is now split because of the advantages of portability and field of view for the smaller aperture. We always favored the 12.5 and that amount of aperture is wonderful in most cases where reaching out for finer things is needed, but in outreach, large objects, etc. it just is not the best solution. So enjoy....
Roland
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