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HendyPhoto
Sith Lord
   
Reged: 08/09/06
Posts: 1485
Loc: Bountiful, Utah
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Hey all! I am in a dilemma. I dont know which route to go for a portable power supply. Back in the good old days, I only had to power my mount!! I need to power one of my mounts (cge, cpc or cg5), mallincam, speco, laptop and mini-dv vcr. I have been using my generator thats built on to my RV, but that is too loud for starparties or around other people and costs alot in gas! I think I might go the inverter route with an extra deep cycle battery. If I go that route, do I need a pure sine wave inverter for the mallincam or is modified sufficient, and how many watts will I need to power all that stuff? If I go pure sine wave, it will be more money but may make the picture quality better as well. AND if I go with an inverter, can I run a long extension cord to it? OR I can always have multiple jumpstarter packs. What do you guys think, and what are you using? Thanks!
-------------------- ~jon
SparkCast Ustream
CGE1400XLT w/HyperStar
90FD 66SD C6-R SN-8
CPC1100XLT Hutech 20D
Manny-Mod Vixen Porta
Mallincam MCHP
SPC900NC
CG-5 GT
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe." --Albert Einstein
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Chris Schroeder
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/11/04
Posts: 5079
Loc: N.E. WI Sky Glow
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For devices that use DC power, why not just use DC power for them, like the laptop & Mallincam? You may have to get a voltage convertor for the laptop, but most have a 12V cigarette lighter plug-in as an option.
-------------------- Chris
Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
10" DSH with SC DSC, CPC 800 XLT
M102ED S.V., ZS 80FD 10th Anniv, ZS 66SD, PST
POD XL3 http://POD.SchroederCity.com
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
   
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 2434
Loc: Colorado
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Jon,
You're going to need a fairly robust setup to power all of that.
Mount 12v .5-1amp
Mallincam 12v .5amp
Dew strips 12v 2amp
Speco 110v 45w
DV VCR 110v ?w (my hard disk based DVR is rated at 50w so I'll use that for the calculations)
Laptop 110v 70-90w (I'd stay with the original 110v adapter on the laptop since you're going to have to get an inverter for the other two 110v products anyway ... the alternative it to buy a 12v converter/adapter for the laptop but since this project is already going to get a little pricey I wouldn't bother).
Depending on the rating of your VCR it looks like you'll need about 180w of 110v, so using the 50% extra rule figure on a 300w inverter. The 180w 110v requirement plus the ~3 amps @ 12v for the mount/MC/dew strips means that for a normal night's use I'd say about 150amp/hour total capacity will be required (180w @12v = 15amp/hour + 3 amp/hour for the other 12v stuff ... that means 18amp/hour x 8 hours = 144amp/hour). This calculation leads to an almost totally discharged battery ... not a good thing, so either less run time or more battery capacity will likely be needed. I haven't factored in the inefficiency of the inverter but I also used the maximum 90w for the laptop, which it won't draw anything close to. The laptop will be likely around 60-70w in continuous use plus if it's internal battery is already charged then that number will drop way way down. As with any electrical capacity calculation you go with the worst case and then add a little fudge factor.
Deep cycle batteries are likely the way to go here, and wet cells are the more popular but AGMs (glass mat) batteries are less maintenance and more flexible but are also almost twice the price of the traditional wet cells. I think two ~75amp/hour batteries or one big honking (technical term) 150amp/hour unit and a good charger are the way to go. Mount them in a plastic tool case that has wheels and a long handle (think luggage wheelie or boxes on a dolly type of setup).
As for the inverter ... the modified sine wave units are now pretty good but since you're driving two units that are going to affect the image quality I think I'd go pure sine wave (hey it's only your money ). With the requirement for nice clean 110v power I'd watch out of the all in one battery/inverter packages. I've seen some very tempting all in one units that even come packaged with the wheels and the handle ... the problem is that you just don't know what your getting in terms of the individual components.
As for the mount and Mallincam, I'd just tap off of the 12v battery supply for a few 12v outputs (also don't forget the dew strips and controller).
So it would end up something like this ...
150amp/hour 12v deep cycle battery, preferably the AGM type.
Good quality battery charger
300 pure sine wave inverter for the Speco monitor, Mini-DV VCR, and Laptop
2 or 3 12v taps off of the battery for the mount, Mallincam, and dew controller/strips
Case to house all this, plus wheels and a long handle (you don't want to be carrying this puppy around).
The 12v taps could be those cigarette lighter style sockets (link) so you can use the stock power connections, but you will have to at least build a new power cable for the Mallincam.
-------------------- Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam
Edited by mclewis1 (06/05/08 06:09 PM)
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
   
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 2434
Loc: Colorado
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A few good deep cycle battery FAQs ... or more than you ever wanted to know about 12v batteries.
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
http://www.marine-electronics.net/techarticle/battery_faq/b_faq.htm
http://www.solar-electric.com/deep_cycle_batteries/deep_cycle_battery_faq.htm
-------------------- Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam
Edited by mclewis1 (06/05/08 05:28 PM)
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
   
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 2434
Loc: Colorado
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I forgot to add to my first post, the rough calculation for costs would be ...
$200-400 for the batteries (wet cell vs. AGM and does not include shipping)
$160 for the inverter
$100 for the charger
$60 for the rolling case
$50 misc for wiring, outlets, etc.
... and this thread should probably be moved to the equipment section.
-------------------- Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam
Edited by mclewis1 (06/05/08 06:13 PM)
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HendyPhoto
Sith Lord
   
Reged: 08/09/06
Posts: 1485
Loc: Bountiful, Utah
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LOL Thanks alot Chris and Mark! I am thinking I want to hard wire an inverter inside of my RV and that will just draw off of my 2 deep cycles I already have in there. When my batteries get low, I will just fire up the old 4000 watt generator! I think I will go with a pure sine wave 300 watt and then I will plug the mallin and mount into the cig lighter I have already in the RV or my jumpstarter battery pack, it always worked well for the mount. The next question, is it bad to run a 25 foot extension cord to the inverter or does that not matter? Luckily I dont ever need dew heaters or controllers, its nice and dry here, same as for you Mark! Thanks again guys!
-------------------- ~jon
SparkCast Ustream
CGE1400XLT w/HyperStar
90FD 66SD C6-R SN-8
CPC1100XLT Hutech 20D
Manny-Mod Vixen Porta
Mallincam MCHP
SPC900NC
CG-5 GT
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe." --Albert Einstein
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Chris Schroeder
Postmaster
   
Reged: 12/11/04
Posts: 5079
Loc: N.E. WI Sky Glow
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Think BIG, 10 gauge wire for the extension cord, the thicker the wire the less resitance and loss of power.
-------------------- Chris
Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
10" DSH with SC DSC, CPC 800 XLT
M102ED S.V., ZS 80FD 10th Anniv, ZS 66SD, PST
POD XL3 http://POD.SchroederCity.com
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
   
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 2434
Loc: Colorado
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Yep, High amperage DC needs big wire. Higher voltage AC is much easier to "transport", and that's one of the major reasons we have a 110v AC infrastructure. It would be better to package the inverter near the batteries and run a regular heavy duty extension cord over to your 110v devices. That way you could just unplug the smaller inverter and plug in that big 4000w job when the batteries got too low.
-------------------- Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam
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Jack Huerkamp
Vendor - Waning Moon
Reged: 10/13/05
Posts: 511
Loc: Louisiana
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Has anyone tried one of Honda's super quite generators? I have 2 of the 2000 watt units that I take when dry camping and I used one each night at the Kisatchie Star Party. They only put out a 58db noise level and were essentially not heard during the observing sessions.
Honda makes a 1000 watt unit that consumes less gas than the 2000 watters that I own.
Jack
-------------------- Orion ED80
Coulter CT-100
Celestron 6" f/8 Refractor
8" Newtonian/Cassegrain on Byers 812 Mount
Classic C-8
Celestron 11" CPC 100 with HyperStar
Tricked-out 17.5" AstroSystems TeleKit
Life Member and ALCOR - PAS New Orleans
Waning Moon II Observatory
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HendyPhoto
Sith Lord
   
Reged: 08/09/06
Posts: 1485
Loc: Bountiful, Utah
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Thanks again for the replies everyone! Those are great little units Jack, and very tempting if I had the money! I think the built in inverter is pure sine wave too! That would be ideal if I ever want to go without my RV. HMMMMMM, I think it may have to wait until I have my hyperstar lens assembly. I picked up a 600 watt inverter I will hard wire into my RV, but its a modified sine wave, so hopefully it wont be too terrible. It was under 100 bucks so it wont be too big of a loss. My RV generator is hooked up so it comes on automatically when my deep cycle batteries get low. I think I can keep my scope close enough to the trailer to get my strip plug over to the inverter. I will let you know how it goes after next weekend!
Mark, I thought about posting in the equipment forum, but my main concern/question was whether or not I was required to have a pure sine wave inverter for the mallincam, I dont want to ruin it. Here is some info on modified and pure sine waves....
There are two types of inverters, modified sine wave and pure sine wave. The most common is "modified sine wave," which is a square wave with a pause as it passes through zero volts. This pause puts most of the power in the fundamental frequency of 60Hz, but does not eliminate all the higher harmonic frequencies which can cause buzzing in audio and entertainment systems, and can cause probems in some sensitive equipment.
In the modified sine wave inverter the power MOSFET switches are either all the way on or all the way off. This means that there is very little power dissipated in the MOSFETs. This enables the inverter designer to use much smaller transistors and heat sinks than the pure sine wave inverter, and makes the modified sine wave very cheap.
With pure sine wave inverters, the output is a sine wave, which only contains the fundamental at 60 Hz. Therefore it doesn't radiate or transmit noise to other equipment and is kinder to the electronics that it is powering.
In other words, a pure sine wave inverter is just like the clean power you have in your home or office.
-------------------- ~jon
SparkCast Ustream
CGE1400XLT w/HyperStar
90FD 66SD C6-R SN-8
CPC1100XLT Hutech 20D
Manny-Mod Vixen Porta
Mallincam MCHP
SPC900NC
CG-5 GT
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe." --Albert Einstein
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HendyPhoto
Sith Lord
   
Reged: 08/09/06
Posts: 1485
Loc: Bountiful, Utah
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One more quick question... Is there a DC power adapter available for the mallincam? If not, can I get one at radio shack to work with it? Thanks!
-------------------- ~jon
SparkCast Ustream
CGE1400XLT w/HyperStar
90FD 66SD C6-R SN-8
CPC1100XLT Hutech 20D
Manny-Mod Vixen Porta
Mallincam MCHP
SPC900NC
CG-5 GT
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe." --Albert Einstein
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Jamie
member
Reged: 05/08/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Cortez, FL
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Jon: I use a RS positive tip 12V adapter - works fine. Jamie
-------------------- ETX60AT-BB
ETX70AT
ETX80AT-BB
LX200R 12"
Celestron Super C8+
NexStar 4SE
DSI color
Mallin Cam Hyper Plus Color
Apogee 25X100 binos
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HendyPhoto
Sith Lord
   
Reged: 08/09/06
Posts: 1485
Loc: Bountiful, Utah
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COOL, thanks Jamie! Did you take the mallincam in and buy one that fit, or did it come with several different tips?
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dvb
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/18/05
Posts: 1898
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And, for the electrically challenged:
How do you tell a positive tip from a negative tip?
-------------------- Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Newt on Matilda
Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Collapsible Dob
Meade 8" SN f/4
Celestron C8 SCT
Celestron C6 SCT
Skywatcher ED100
Skywatcher ED80
EQ6 Pro "Matilda"
AT Voyager
Skymaster 15x70
Mallincam HyperColor Plus
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Jamie
member
Reged: 05/08/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Cortez, FL
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Jon: The standard tip fits the MC and all tips are pretty much positive these days. Jamie
-------------------- ETX60AT-BB
ETX70AT
ETX80AT-BB
LX200R 12"
Celestron Super C8+
NexStar 4SE
DSI color
Mallin Cam Hyper Plus Color
Apogee 25X100 binos
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
   
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 2434
Loc: Colorado
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Mallincam appears to use the same power plug as Celestron scopes/mounts - 2.1mm x 5.5mm.
The plug doesn't care about being center positive or negative, it's all about how it's wired to the power source. The only ways to be certain are: 1) Buy a power supply/adapter/cable from the vendor of the item you're powering or 2) use a digital/analog multimeter and test the connection (some are available for only $7) ... and one of these is a must if you're making your own cables.
-------------------- Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam
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Jamie
member
Reged: 05/08/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Cortez, FL
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The MC does care if its center positive, just ask Rock. The RS adapter is center positive and works. When in doubt all one needs to do is A. Ask. B. use mutimeter to test. Jamie
-------------------- ETX60AT-BB
ETX70AT
ETX80AT-BB
LX200R 12"
Celestron Super C8+
NexStar 4SE
DSI color
Mallin Cam Hyper Plus Color
Apogee 25X100 binos
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
   
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 2434
Loc: Colorado
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Of course the MC cares, I never said otherwise ... in fact you'll fry the unit if you plugged it in to a center negative setup. The comment was for dvb since there is no difference visually and your response might lead someone to think that there isn't much of concern choosing a 3rd party power adapter/supply.
Yes most power adapters/supplies have plugs that are wired center positive these days. The vast majority of power products on the market today, especially the cheaper products are however not that well documented. I find it actually kind of rare to see clear statements/graphics that indicate whether a plug is center positive or negative.
I don't follow any manufacturer blindly, personally I generally don't like the pricing policies on the original manufacurer's power supplies/adapters and will use a 3rd party product whenever appropriate. In fact all of my gear (with the exception of a Canon 350D) is powered by 3rd party power supplies/adapters, all the original power adapters are safely stored away in a box.
Jamie if you notice I used the term "certain" in my post when trying to determine whether a power plug is appropriate. If you want to take the word of the individual behind the counter that's fine. If they or the info on their website is wrong all they are liable for is the power adapter and not what you plugged it into. Personally when it comes to properly powering $1000s of dollars of gear I prefer to be certain.
-------------------- Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam
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Rusty
Postmaster
   
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16336
Loc: Brooker, FL
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The Mallincam indeed uses the 2.1mmx5.5mm plug, center positive. Most devices are center-pos; one notable exception is SBIG equipment.
-------------------- N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Jamie
member
Reged: 05/08/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Cortez, FL
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Mark: I've never had a problem asking and trusting ( maybe just lucky). Didn't say all were positive either.I did mention testing with a multimeter too. Jamie
-------------------- ETX60AT-BB
ETX70AT
ETX80AT-BB
LX200R 12"
Celestron Super C8+
NexStar 4SE
DSI color
Mallin Cam Hyper Plus Color
Apogee 25X100 binos
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