asaint
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/25/03
Posts: 1949
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Death by Black Hole
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jmcdonald
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/01/05
Posts: 1442
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Thanks for this. I just reserved a copy at the library.
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Jerel
Discovery 12.5" modified truss DOB
Orion 100mm f/6 achromat
Garret 15x70 LW Binoculars
22-T4,13-T6
IDA Membership
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John Kocijanski
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/22/03
Posts: 1462
Loc: Monticello, NY
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I have it. Great book. Nice review.
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John
Deep Space Observer 10 * SPC-8 * C102 HD f/10 * XT 4.5 * AT1010N * PST *
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 4198
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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This reminds me of a Sky&Tel article a couple of years ago- about a film-maker interviewing an Astronomer for ideas about sci-fi perils in space. By the time the Astronomer had described the REAL perils out there, the moviemaker was cringing under his desk!
Was this possibly concerning the same book? Or was this book possibly inspired by said article? Can anyone pinpoint the S&T issue it came from?
Thanks!
 mike b
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Just for giggles- Next time when the money comes out the ATM, scream "I Won!, I Won!"
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob * *
 Pacheco State Park
 Fremont Peak
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Mike Clemens
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/05
Posts: 2601
Loc: Alaska @ 61N -149W
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1iJXOUMJpg
Tyson is all over Youtube, lots of fun videos to watch.
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TEC APO200ED f/9 #18
Long Gone Refractors
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Kinsale
journeyman
Reged: 02/28/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Altair 4
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"Block Hole"? I though maybe the title was some kind of comment, but there was nothing in the review referring back to it. Just a typo I guess. (?)
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deSitter
sage
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 468
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Oh how I loathe this sort of writing about physics. You know, as a person who has been at physics for 80% of his nearly 50 year life, I can tell you that what makes it exciting has nothing to do with this sort of sensationalism. It has to do with people like Halton Arp, and Paul Dirac. And real ideas. It's not the circus. It's not a freakshow.
I wish there were some way I could steer people away from this drivel. But it's hopeless.
-drl
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spaceydee
Postmaster
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 14760
Loc: Where the Kittens Are
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I don't think I'm that interested in the book myself, but I certainly see a market for it, and respect anyone who would pick it up and enjoy it. My own attention span would not allow me to read that whole book in all honesty...
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Dee
space-scientist
student violinist
Nexstar8i,SV80S,80/9D,FC100,94 Brandon,GM8
8" f/7 Discovery,12.5" Portaball, PST
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David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 6114
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.38 X 90....
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Quote:
Oh how I loathe this sort of writing about physics. You know, as a person who has been at physics for 80% of his nearly 50 year life, I can tell you that what makes it exciting has nothing to do with this sort of sensationalism. It has to do with people like Halton Arp, and Paul Dirac. And real ideas. It's not the circus. It's not a freakshow.
I wish there were some way I could steer people away from this drivel. But it's hopeless.
-drl
 Drivel? That's what I get for not paying attention in physics class.  I enjoyed the book!
David
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A few scopes and mounts.
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
Life expectancies would go WAY up if green vegetables smelled like bacon...
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David L
super member
Reged: 11/12/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Lee County Iowa
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If it gets today's kids interested in physics and by extension, astronomy...
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mcoren
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 1084
Loc: Northern Virginia, USA
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Quote:
Oh how I loathe this sort of writing about physics. You know, as a person who has been at physics for 80% of his nearly 50 year life, I can tell you that what makes it exciting has nothing to do with this sort of sensationalism. It has to do with people like Halton Arp, and Paul Dirac. And real ideas. It's not the circus. It's not a freakshow.
I wish there were some way I could steer people away from this drivel. But it's hopeless.
-drl
Dude, nice attitude.
Modern sciences are very specialized and technical subjects. Whenever a specialist has tried to make their subject more accessible to the general public, somebody else (who has, no doubt, much at stake in their erudite position) has accused them of sensationalism. It happened to Carl Sagan, it happened to Isaac Asimov.
Modern astrophysics is a very technical subject. Most people on CN can probably tell you that a black hole is a region where gravity is so strong that not even light can escape, but in order to completely describe it with mathematical rigor, you need to go into general relativity and quantum physics. However, to say that anything less is "drivel" is elitist. It says that nobody who has not spent years at the graduate level studying advanced physics and mathematics has the right to enjoy and benefit from all of the advances in modern astronomy.
Let's apply the same criteria to amateur astronomy. Let's tell all of the CN members whose telescopes aren't university quality, research capable instruments, that they are nothing more than toys, and they have no right to be viewing the same celestial objects as the professional astronomers, since the professionals have spent 80% of their lives studying them and they are doing fundamental research, while the amateurs are just playing with their toys.
The benefit of books such as Death by Black Hole is that they take the scientific research and make it accessible to the interested layperson with a high school diploma. Is it rigorous? No. Can you use it as a reference in a scientific paper? Probably not. But that's not what it's meant for.
Even people who have studied advanced physics and mathematics can enjoy it. I have a master's degree in engineering and 20 years of professional experience. I also have two children and six months of unread technical journals in my own field to catch up on. I'm not afraid to mix it up with the advanced physics or mathematics, but this isn't my field, and a book like this allows me to keep up with developments in what is, after all, just my hobby.
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Mike
Orion SkyQuest XT10
Suburban Washington DC
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Larry Geary
sage
Reged: 09/24/06
Posts: 429
Loc: NJ, USA
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Quote:
If it gets today's kids interested in physics and by extension, astronomy...
It is a mistake to assume that, because you or I were drawn into amateur astronomy by an interest in hard science, that everyone else was, too. That's like an oceanographer who takes up bass fishing assuming that all the other guys in bass boats must be scientists, too. Would that it were so, but unfortunately it isn't. And the more people drawn into the hobby by cartoonish sensationalism or cheap no-thinking-required telescopes, the less likely we are to be surrounded by like-minded people.
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When small men cast long shadows, the sun is going down.
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David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 6114
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.38 X 90....
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Quote:
Quote:
Oh how I loathe this sort of writing about physics. You know, as a person who has been at physics for 80% of his nearly 50 year life, I can tell you that what makes it exciting has nothing to do with this sort of sensationalism. It has to do with people like Halton Arp, and Paul Dirac. And real ideas. It's not the circus. It's not a freakshow.
I wish there were some way I could steer people away from this drivel. But it's hopeless.
-drl
Dude, nice attitude.
Modern sciences are very specialized and technical subjects. Whenever a specialist has tried to make their subject more accessible to the general public, somebody else (who has, no doubt, much at stake in their erudite position) has accused them of sensationalism. It happened to Carl Sagan, it happened to Isaac Asimov.
Modern astrophysics is a very technical subject. Most people on CN can probably tell you that a black hole is a region where gravity is so strong that not even light can escape, but in order to completely describe it with mathematical rigor, you need to go into general relativity and quantum physics. However, to say that anything less is "drivel" is elitist. It says that nobody who has not spent years at the graduate level studying advanced physics and mathematics has the right to enjoy and benefit from all of the advances in modern astronomy.
Let's apply the same criteria to amateur astronomy. Let's tell all of the CN members whose telescopes aren't university quality, research capable instruments, that they are nothing more than toys, and they have no right to be viewing the same celestial objects as the professional astronomers, since the professionals have spent 80% of their lives studying them and they are doing fundamental research, while the amateurs are just playing with their toys.
The benefit of books such as Death by Black Hole is that they take the scientific research and make it accessible to the interested layperson with a high school diploma. Is it rigorous? No. Can you use it as a reference in a scientific paper? Probably not. But that's not what it's meant for.
Even people who have studied advanced physics and mathematics can enjoy it. I have a master's degree in engineering and 20 years of professional experience. I also have two children and six months of unread technical journals in my own field to catch up on. I'm not afraid to mix it up with the advanced physics or mathematics, but this isn't my field, and a book like this allows me to keep up with developments in what is, after all, just my hobby.
What Mike said!!  
David
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A few scopes and mounts.
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
Life expectancies would go WAY up if green vegetables smelled like bacon...
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Fusion
super member
Reged: 01/27/08
Posts: 157
Loc: Amory, MS, USA
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I also agree with Mike. Well spoken. 
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Lee
Celestron Nexstar 8SE
Orion 80mm Shorttube
Piggybacked on the CG-5 ASGT Mount
Meade DSIc
Phillips SPC900NC/00
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LivingNDixie
Lord of Ferrets
Reged: 04/23/03
Posts: 15620
Loc: Hoover, AL
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The funny thing is, the book really doesn't deal with just black holes, it is a collection of essays that he wrote for a magazine. It covers many subjects astronomical, considering the criticism is it pretty clear some have not even read the book... Maybe Lisa Randall is more to their liking.
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Preston
Celestron 11" Nexstar GPS XLT
Lunt LS60T/Ha 60mm f/8.33 (on order)
It’s not finishing something when your tank is empty that makes you a stronger person. It’s brushing yourself off and refacing the foe that defeated you with the same determination and willingness to fight that you had when you began your journey.
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spaceydee
Postmaster
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 14760
Loc: Where the Kittens Are
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Folks, some of you may have noticed that this thread was locked for a little bit. I see that this particular book "style" has some fans and some people that are not crazy about this "sort" of book. That's okay but let's keep all discussions here within the TOS which includes:
Posts that are not respectful of other individuals (be they members or not) are not welcome here.
This is just a general reminder but also a warning that disrespectful posts may be deleted.
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Dee
space-scientist
student violinist
Nexstar8i,SV80S,80/9D,FC100,94 Brandon,GM8
8" f/7 Discovery,12.5" Portaball, PST
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rathbaster
super member
Reged: 03/21/08
Posts: 179
Loc: East Bridgewater, MA
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Quote:
I wish there were some way I could steer people away from this drivel. But it's hopeless.
There is a way to steer people clear of what you consider drivel.
Write and publish a book popularizing science yourself.
Share your excitement over the particulars of science which engender your ongoing wonderment at the universe in such a way that makes people see the value of science through your eyes.
-Joe
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Bridgewater State College Observatory
Celestron (Vixen) 6" F/5 Newt (1991)
80mm F/6 Nighthawk
76mm F/15 Tasco 15TE Planetary
TV Smooth Sided Plossls
Fawrowski Plossls
Planetary's (Teton)
Lots of H/HM/R/AR/KE
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desertstars
Say What?
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 28624
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Let's get back on the topic of the thread, folks - the discussion of the review and the book that was reviewed.
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Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
It is a plain road from the earth to the stars though mortal feet can not tread it. Garret P. Serviss 1888
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j3ffr0
member
Reged: 07/06/08
Posts: 79
Loc: Virginia
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There are a good many topics in this book that I'd like to know more about. I just bought the audio book, but it will probably be several months before I get to it. Until I get time to go through the Feynman Lectures (maybe when I retire in about 15 years), I'll have to get my learning from pop titles like this.
Books like this one and Brian Greene's "The Fabric of the Cosmos", or "The Elegant Universe" and Hawking's "A Briefer History of Time" and even Gamow's "Mr. Tompkins" help bring very complicated scientific concepts within the grasp of the average Joe like me. While average Joe's may not be able to do the proofs and understand things at the level of a real physicist, we don't need to. In fact, there is no physicist who understands all of it all the way. Being aware of the concepts at all is that is really important. Books like this raise awareness, spark the imagination, and open peoples minds. All of these are good things. The more people's minds are open the more they might be willing to donate to universities and programs where the real science is actually done. And that is what I call progress. 
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10" Dob
127mm Mak
10x50 Binocs
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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 3921
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Quote:
In fact, there is no physicist who understands all of it all the way.
I think Hawking does. That guy is so smart it's scary. He's up there with Einstein and Newton.
I've always enjoyed Tyson's articles in Natural History magazine. He has a real knack for taking difficult subjects and making them understandable, while at the same time not talking down to you.
This is probably a very engaging book.
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C
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