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stars_in_my_eyes
sage
Reged: 03/24/08
Posts: 453
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I am looking for a list of requirements for a laptop for field use.
Size, power, drive size, ports...all the resources one would need to use the laptop in the field.
Lastly any recommendations for favorite laptops would be appreciated...but ONLY laptops that are available in the USED market...NO new models. The reason why...I would rather spend the money saved in buying used on other astronomy equipment.
So what is needed and what is popular as to laptops at star parties?
Thanks
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
   
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 2455
Loc: Colorado
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Depends on what you are going to do with the laptop.
Most folks need something to handle charts - just about anything will handle PDFs
Planetarium software for finding objects - Carts du Ciel is one of the best and easiest on PC resources. Some of the other commercial packages will chew up a fair amount of horsepower (both CPU and graphics wise).
Observing list management can be useful - most of the apps here if they are separate from the planetarium programs are very small and simple. There is however an increasing desire to be able to look up objects in real time, this obviously requires an Ethernet and/or wifi connection and a browser.
Scope control from the planetarium software is usually handled through a set of drivers like ASCOM or EQMOD - these use very little resources.
Camera control (image download and shutter control) is also a fairly light load, but the camera will use up a lot of USB2 bandwidth when downloading images and therefore also some more CPU resources. A way around this is if you are using a DSLR is to use a large memory card in the camera and only download the images at the end of an imaging session. One other area where camera control can become a resource hog is with the planetary webcam type of imagers that use the larger chips (1024x768) at fast (30+ frames per second). With this type of setup a laptop will start to require a fast disk (7200rpm) and much more CPU resources.
Autoguiding is an app that doesn't chew too many resources but needs to run without too many other things getting in the way. It's the closet thing most of us have to a real time application. Think of it as an imaging application (that downloads multiple times a second) and an app to analyze any changes between the images. Autoguiding apps will run on fairly limited laptops but they do like to have up to date items like USB2 (vs. 1.1) ports.
Image post processing - this is where most folks draw the line. A laptop would need to have lots and lots of horsepower (CPU, RAM, and graphics) to be able to handle the workload imposed on it by apps like Photoshop. This usually means that a laptop in the field is relegated to scope/camera control and image capture. Then another PC (usually a desktop at home) is used to handle the image post processing.
So can you get away with a laptop that's got a reasonable Celeron type of cpu and .5 to 1 GB ram? Sure, if you are careful in how it's setup (nice clean OS install and no unnecessary apps). You'll probably want a few USB2 ports (and not just one through a hub). Battery life can be an issue as well. A late model laptop with an extra large battery can run a scope for 3,4,5 or more hours. Anything that's been around for a while or is configured for the lightest possible weight will need to be plugged in almost immediately.
You can likely pick up a used XP based system with a reasonable CPU/RAM combo and graphics card for a good price but I'd also look at some of the latest new systems. When I was shopping for a laptop for my scope last year I also thought I'd go for a used system. I almost did until I saw the brand new Vostro laptops from Dell. I got exactly what I was looking for in a laptop (XP, Core2 CPU, 1GB RAM, graphics processor w/128MB, a display with extra vertical resolution, 4xUSB2 ports, big 120GB disk, extra battery capacity, wireless) for around $500. The extra $100 or so for the new system also removed any uncertainties about the system plus included a one year warranty ... to me it was well worth it.
-------------------- Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED
Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s, 8x56s, T-Mount Light, and Mark 1 eyeballs
Modded 350D, SPC900, Mallincam
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Alex^DJ^
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 1200
Loc: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, Mexico.
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Well it depends on what are your intentions with the laptop. If you are on imagening stuff you need a good laptop, not the tops but a good one (around 2 gigs of ram, a good procesor whatever is double core or at least pentium 4) a good 80 gigs or mor eon hard drive and lots of USB ports (camera, guiders, etc).
If you only want to use a laptop for a planetarium software (like starry night, stellarium, the sky) then i think its much better to buy a palm and with some astroplanner software you are good to go, dont need a big laptop around for that.
-------------------- My Telescopes and Equipment:
- WO 66SD scope
- ETX-125 (Soon to be sold) "My Big Fat Mak"
- C6-ASGT " The Mexican "
- Starshoot CCD Cam
- Nextimagen Planetary Cam
- Canon EOS Rebel XTi (400D Unmoded)
Eyepices and Accesories:
- Celestron E-Lux 25mm
- GSO Superview 20mm
- GSO Superview 15mm
- ADM dual saddle plate
- 100mm Guide rings
- Orion 2X Shorty barlow
- Garmin E-Trex GPS handheld
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stars_in_my_eyes
sage
Reged: 03/24/08
Posts: 453
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Excellent responses...thanks.
Anyone else?
Any suggested USED laptop models that you see out at star parties that excel at field usage?
Thanks
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calibos
sage
   
Reged: 11/18/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Ireland
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I think you need to tell us your budget then if you are determined it has to be USED because Mark told you about his $500 New Dell Vostro. I just got one myself a month or two ago with even better spec. (2GHZ Core 2, 2gigs Ram, 250gig HDD, 128mb Graphics Card, 17in display ) for 750 euros that included a great laptop carry bag. Dell USA are significantly cheaper than Dell Europe so I would say the same spec is about $500 like Marks.
My point is is that someone could tell you about a used Laptop that cost 1500 dollars which is now a steal a year later at 500 dollars. So do you want a 1500 dollar when new laptop at 500 used or do you want a 500 dollar dell vostro when new at 200 used??......if you know what I mean.
-------------------- Keith D.
Orion SkyQuest XT12i
Moonlite CR Focusser with Rigel motofocus
Brian Reed 'RoundTable' Equatorial Platform
Howie Glatter Holograhic Collimator and Blug
Baader Hyperion 21/32mm,17mm,13mm,8mm,5mm,3.5mm EP
TS 15x70 Binoculars
[img]http://7timer.y234.cn/exe/apanel.php?country=EI&adm=EI31&site=92&en[/img]
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cnstarz
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/22/07
Posts: 538
Loc: Kentucky, USA
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One thing to look for is serial and parallel ports, the laptops that have these are really old though... Good Luck
-------------------- Matt
Apogee 50mm BB scope
ETX-60 BB
Meade 70-az
5" DIY Newt (wip)
C6-N on CG-4 GEM
Gallery
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1_old_dog
sage
   
Reged: 09/07/07
Posts: 357
Loc: Smoky Mnts
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Hi I use an IBM Thinkpad in the field/backyard. It's a P3, 1gb ram, 80gb hd, serial port, USB ports, wireless and ethernet cards and it only cost me $150.00.
I don't do any imaging "work" on this laptop but I do save videos from my Philips webcam and images taken with my Canon. I then transfer them to my desktop for the real work.
I have many charts and run astro programs like CDC and Celestron's "TheSky" and use I Autostar Suite to control my ETX's.
I have no complaints with this setup and it won't cost me ton to replace if something was to happen to it.
OD
-------------------- http://chu65nang67.us/nam/vietnam.html
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Rusty
Postmaster
   
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16410
Loc: Brooker, FL
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Recommending a specific one is nigh impossible. Anyway, if it were I, I'd look for a Pentium (not a Celeron), at least 512 MB RAM, 40 GB HDD (at least a 5400 RPM, not the slower 4500s); as Mark suggests, 7200 RPM is better, but rare unless you go for upscale used laptops.
That said, if it were I, I'd get a new one for a couple of centibucks more than used, and be comforted with decent performance and a warranty.
Also note the importance (again citing Mark), what SHOULD dictate your decision is the laptop's use. If you need parallel and serial ports, reliable USB-RS-232 (Serial) and CardBus/ExpressCard adaptors can add a couple of hundred dollars to the cost; an older used laptop, while slow and maybe clunky, might suit you better... .
-------------------- N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Charlie B
super member
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Virginia
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For me, light weight, long battery life and sufficient processing power to support 2 simultaneous cameras are my main interests. I have USB-serial cables and, so far, work fine. I would reconsider buying used, as the price of new laptops have come down significantly with the low end about $500 with 1 GB ram and 80GB HDD. I consider the extra money for an upgraded laptop well spent. I almost never process on my older desktop now. Its too slow. My dual-processor laptop are is extremely quick when the software can use both processors or I can do two completely different operations without being slowed. My old Pentium IV looks clunky in comparison.
The laptop is my most used astronomy accessory.
Charlie B
-------------------- Meade SN-8, DS-90, AT-66
DSI Pro II (Schuler Filters), DSI-C, LPI, Canon XTi
AIP4WIN, Nebulosity, DSS, Registrax, GIMP
running on Dell 1420 with Vista
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Rusty
Postmaster
   
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16410
Loc: Brooker, FL
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I agree - when my laptop exceeded my desktop's capacity for image processing, it was time to start accumulating pieces for its successor (BTW, I built it 11/03). I have all but the mobo, CPU, and HDDs sitting on the shelf awaiting my final decision on those parts.
-------------------- N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Charlie B
super member
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Virginia
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I built my desktop at about the same time. I bought my laptop in February. I've been waiting to replace my desktop (everything but the chassis, power supply and dvd drive) because the laptop is doing such a good job. The only reason I keep the desktop around is that its dual-boot Linux/Windows XP and I can't get some of the Linux programs for windows. Also, Linux on the desktop is not as slow as XP for these programs, so I have no incentive to rush.
All said, I would choose my new laptop over the desktop any time.
Charlie B
-------------------- Meade SN-8, DS-90, AT-66
DSI Pro II (Schuler Filters), DSI-C, LPI, Canon XTi
AIP4WIN, Nebulosity, DSS, Registrax, GIMP
running on Dell 1420 with Vista
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letimotif
no complaints
   
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1111
Loc: Far Flung Isles of Langerhans
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Quote:
When I was shopping for a laptop for my scope last year I also thought I'd go for a used system. I almost did until I saw the brand new Vostro laptops from Dell. I got exactly what I was looking for in a laptop (XP, Core2 CPU, 1GB RAM, graphics processor w/128MB, a display with extra vertical resolution, 4xUSB2 ports, big 120GB disk, extra battery capacity, wireless) for around $500. The extra $100 or so for the new system also removed any uncertainties about the system plus included a one year warranty ... to me it was well worth it.
I will second McLewis' suggestion. I came to the same conclusion, but with a couple of upgrades came in at only $425, plus $19 shipping. There were three plusses for me:
1. Cheap price for a field unit that could be damaged or (gasp!) lifted when I wasn't looking. 2. Warranty coverage for the first year with the advantage of Windows XP at no charge vs. Vista. 3. The Vostro line is Dell's business subsidiary. Consequently, these units do NOT come with a host of trial applications that eat up disk space and processing resources.
All in all, peace of mind at the price of a used unit.
-------------------- Celestron CPC 1100
Celestron C6R-GT
Orion 120ST
B&L Banner Astro 80mm
Astro Telescopes 'tis a mystery 80mm ED
Sundry Oddments
Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?
Ad astra per aspera
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spoolboyy
super member
Reged: 08/01/05
Posts: 184
Loc: Lewiston, Idaho
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Quote:
Excellent responses...thanks.
Anyone else?
Any suggested USED laptop models that you see out at star parties that excel at field usage?
Thanks
Here's my story on doing EXACTLY what you're talking about doing.
Last summer I bought a USED Dell C800. I paid $125 for it shipped with no hard drive. its a 1ghz system with 512mb ram. i found the largest hard drive the system would handle (a 40gb model) and installed it myself. it cost about $40. I bought a case for it for $20 at Staples. I bought a wireless card for it ($70 original price) on sale for $40 at staples. It came with no operating system so I installed a free Linux OS on it. I also bought a second battery for it, (the original was good but the C800 accepts dual batteries so i get 3.5 to 4 hours of life) Its a generic battery I paid $40 for.
So lets add this up:
$125 for the lappy $040 for the hdd $020 for the case $040 for the wireless card $000 for the Operating System $040 for the second battery
all in all I spent: $265 getting my laptop running properly.
that means I spent TOO MUCH MONEY. All of my parts are warranty-less and the hard drive and PC itself are all used and could wear out or break down at any time.
I'm a computer science student and until last year I worked at Staples selling PCs and it was not a rare occasion that we had far more powerful notebook computers on sale for $399 (or even $350 on black friday).
You may score a dual core with double the ram and hard disk space for another 150 bux. all wrapped up with a manufacturers warranty. (i'm not a HUGE nervous warranty guy, but they have saved me in the past with PC parts).
$150 won't buy you THAT much astro gear. I'd say wait for a deal and get the better PC.
just my $0.02
-adam
-------------------- //ADAM
Celestron 'Hopper 6"
Galileo 120mm Reflector
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basel10
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/15/05
Posts: 805
Loc: TN
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I am would recommend getting a good deal on a new laptop. 3 weeks ago I bought a dell inspiron with intel 1.83ghz core 2 duo, 2 gigs of ram, 250gig hard drive,dvd burner and 15.4" HD wide screen. Oh the best part of it even more then the price I paid is that it came with glorious Vista which I love dearly. I got $400 off with a promotional coupon. I sold my old laptop for $300 which money for that was used to help pay for new laptop. When all said and done I only have $350 in a great and fairly powerful brand new laptop.
-------------------- www.knoxvilleobservers.org
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