Late_Cretaceous
super member
Reged: 07/23/04
Posts: 154
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta
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Mountain Equipment Coop is a popular, non profit chain of stores that sells good quality outdoor sporting gear.
Anyone familiar with MEC is familiar with the concept that it's customers are actually members of the cooperative, and not merely shoppers. One of the benefits of membership to the cooperative is that you can “Help conserve the quality of the natural environment” because of MEC's commitment to environmental sustainability. MEC is always proudly touting its environmental record and encouraging it's members to become involved. They have also always been big into making their buildings environmentally sustainable (they even have a whole department dedicated to this one issue). As a result, you get gardens on the rooftops and solar panels and stuff like that.
Eight years ago I noticed that the lights around the perimeter of our local MEC were of the worst type when it comes to LP. Most of their light being directed parallel to the ground (and being left on in the daytime too). So, being a good coop member I brought this to the attention of the manager. He basically ignored me, so I brought it to the attention of the head office in Vancouver. They somehow compelled him to contact me, but he was certainly not interested. He had not heard of LP, nor did he even want to learn anything about it. So much for living up to their motto.
Anyhow, jump forward 6 years to when a group from our local astronomy club spearheads the creation of a Dark Sky Preserve just outside of town. This was a huge effort on their parts, and involved dealing with many different groups. Turns out our local MEC decides to "endorse" this cause and allows the volunteers to put up a big display in the store to educate shoppers about LP. The display was so popular that the pamphlets had to be refilled regularly for several months. Too bad none of the management got educated.
This all seemed a little hypocritical to me so I sent another note to the head office. THis time I was contacted by a member of their sustainable building team who promised me in writing that the lights would be changed within a few months.
Well, here we are nearly 2 years later and no action has been taken (that individual has also left MEC).
So much for being a member of this coop, and so much for their commitment to building environmental sustainability (unless it is somehting that gets good press).
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Joe Lalumia
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 2381
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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That's why --- I keep saying that legislation is actually the only "remedy" for bad construction practices.
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s.
"I'm so old they've canceled my blood type." Bob Hope
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o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 1200
Loc: The Big Tomato, California
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Sadly, you're right, Joe.
Too much "Do as I say, not as I do."
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Kit
"There's only two things that excite a man, expensive toys and real expensive toys." - Red Green
* A bunch of old ATM stuff that cost me next to nothing
* A bunch of new commercial stuff that cost me an arm and a leg
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29716
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Continue to contact the management and also contact fellow co-op members and have them contact the mgmt about it as well. You can attack a problem from the top down or the bottom up. It just takes more work from the bottom up. If you employ both methods something will eventually give.
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Tom 
12" f/5 DSO Dob
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Darenwh
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/11/06
Posts: 595
Loc: Saint Francis, WI
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Change the pamplet that you are placing in the store. Place pictures of their lights on their building as the wrong type of lighting with explanations as to why. Then, see how long it takes customers to start asking them why they have a pamplet in their store talking about the wasted light and bad lighting designs and showing their store as the culprit. I think they will do something quite quickly when their customers start posing these questions to the management.
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Daren
St. Francis, WI
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Late_Cretaceous
super member
Reged: 07/23/04
Posts: 154
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta
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Quote:
Change the pamplet that you are placing in the store. Place pictures of their lights on their building as the wrong type of lighting with explanations as to why. Then, see how long it takes customers to start asking them why they have a pamplet in their store talking about the wasted light and bad lighting designs and showing their store as the culprit.
I made the same suggestion to our club (somewhat tongue in cheek), and was accused of promoting militancy. In fact, sad to say, I got very little support from the members of the club. What little support I received was drowned out by a lot of negativity towards me. And this is from other amateur astronomers!
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 25818
Loc: montana
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Quote:
Change the pamplet that you are placing in the store. Place pictures of their lights on their building as the wrong type of lighting with explanations as to why. Then, see how long it takes customers to start asking them why they have a pamplet in their store talking about the wasted light and bad lighting designs and showing their store as the culprit. I think they will do something quite quickly when their customers start posing these questions to the management.
Bad idea. The placing of the pamphlets on their property is allowed as a courtesy. This would be a definite way to end any hope of working this problem out, with the business.
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Temp O'Rary
super member
Reged: 04/26/08
Posts: 138
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Quote:
That's why --- I keep saying that legislation is actually the only "remedy" for bad construction practices.
Absolutely correct.
Just as trying to win the battle against light pollution by wielding the environmental-concern weapon is an utterly futile waste of time and effort!
Make it illegal to have polluting lights and ensure that the laws are strictly enforced and violators aggressively prosecuted.
But the only way that will happen is if we play the greed card. Nothing else will work. Just GREED! GREED! GREED!
Even the IDA place too much emphasis on the environmental issues of LP. Nobody but astronomers and a few biologists actually care about that stuff. The vast majority of the human population who are polluting planet Earth with light care only about money.
Convince national and local governments that they are wasting money because of inefficient lighting practices and policies and maybe we'll win a few victories.
But tell them that it's becoming difficult to see the stars or that fluffy bunnies are losing sleep and pretty birdies are getting lost and they'll continue to laugh at - and ignore - us.
Like it or not, that's the only chance we have of winning.
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Glory Be to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Edited by Tom L (06/09/08 09:30 PM)
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desertstars
Say What?
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 28736
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Quote:
Quote:
Change the pamplet that you are placing in the store. Place pictures of their lights on their building as the wrong type of lighting with explanations as to why. Then, see how long it takes customers to start asking them why they have a pamplet in their store talking about the wasted light and bad lighting designs and showing their store as the culprit. I think they will do something quite quickly when their customers start posing these questions to the management.
Bad idea. The placing of the pamphlets on their property is allowed as a courtesy. This would be a definite way to end any hope of working this problem out, with the business.
The only way to work through such a situation is to do so persistently, politely, and in a nonconfrontational manner. Keep calling, keep talking, and smile while you do it.
When dealing with problem lighting we need to remember that our priorities are not reflected in the population at large. Most people honestly don't understand why this matters to us. Being angry with them only motivates them to write us off as some screwball environmentalist fringe group. And it's a lot easier to create that impression than it is to correct it after the fact. 
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Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
amateur: [ama-cher, -ter, am-uh-tur]–noun 1. a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons.
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dvb
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/18/05
Posts: 1669
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I'm very disappointed in MEC on this issue. I've been a member for over 30 years. Generally they practice what they preach. Keep on pushing!
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I'll take one of each, please:
Antares 10" f/5 Dob w/SkyCommander
Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Newt on Matilda
Celestron 8" SCT
Meade 8" SN f/4
Celestron C6 SCT
Skywatcher ED100 f/9
Skywatcher ED80 f/7.5
EQ6 Pro "Matilda"
Skymaster 15x70
Minolta 10x50
Mallincam HyperColor Plus
Speco 9" CRT
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FirstSight
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/26/05
Posts: 2354
Loc: Raleigh, NC
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Ask the co-op manager a simple question:
Would he want someone to set up a store as glaringly lit as his nearby his favorite natural area where he goes to hike and camp out? Is this the example he wants set for other non-outdoorsey businesses to point to as precedent for "passes muster"?
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Chris M., aka "First Sight"
Orion XT12i Dob with Moonlite CR-2 focuser
WO Megrez 90 refractor on UniStar Light mount
Nikon 10x50 Binoculars
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LittleDob
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/10/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Here or there
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I've been a member for about 15 years. I'm disappointed to hear about MEC's response or lack thereof. We the members have the power to change their practices if enough people raise our voices.
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Jason
"Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice." Will Durant
NexStar 11 GPS
WO 80mm 10th Anniversary
TEC140 #360 
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Late_Cretaceous
super member
Reged: 07/23/04
Posts: 154
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta
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I contacted MEC once again a few weeks ago and still have not received any response. I gotta admit, it is pretty depressing. Here is a non-profit, membership driven company that proudly touts it's commitment to protecting the environment, had a high profile environmental sustainablity policy on it's buildings, promoted responsible lighting and public education towards light pollution, proudly claims to listen to it's members - and yet the coop refuses to cooperate on this issue.
I think the term is "greenwash" for this kind of thing. Prior to Canada's ban of BPA containing water bottles MEC had pulled them off the shelves and promoted it as an enviornmental issue. It was a public health issue (at least if you are under 1 year old), not an environmental issue. Goes to show how off base they are.
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