EverlastingSky
super member
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Vancouver Canada
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Will Light Pollution spark a Renaissance in Lunar and Planetary observing? Or Solar observing?
Because in another 25 years there will hardly be a dark sky site within practical driving distance of most anyone on this forum.
Somewhere down the road people will decide that the only game left in town is Lunar and Planetary observing.
Lets have "Moon Parties" in Wal Mart car lots... or Planet Parties from strip mall car lots... where Jupiter, Saturn or Mars are the sole Superstar's of the evening, receiving our undivided attention? Is this the future?
I'm saying this as a biased and unrepentant Lunar and Planetary aficionado 
Edited by EverlastingSky (04/27/08 07:20 PM)
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Daniel
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/16/05
Posts: 641
Loc: Roscoe,IL
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good point, but I feel in due time there will be laws in place where there will be a "lights out" due to new energy laws getting put in place... we can only pray...
My town is growing fast and I feel your pain.
I wish we would have Blackout laws for parts of the nation at certain times of the year just to see what happens. Everyone says that crime goes down when lights are out.... sooo I get confused when everyone feels they need to flood everything in daylight!
There are cameras for security out there now that see in the dark. Spend the money on those versus spending thousands on Merc. Vapor lights instead.
I sent out fliers to my closest neighbors to keep an eye out for a red light in my backyard. If they see it, they kindly turn out the motion lights... which for some reason are on 24-7.  I started turning out my lights long ago... and my German Shepherd seems to like the lights out better for doing his rounds on my property.
(note to self.... remember to feed the dog)
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Meade 127mm / F9.3 Refractor (achro) Starfinder mount
ETX 70mm,F5
Coronado PST(Original Gold Coatings!),on smaller Meade EQ / motorized Mount
Bushnell 7-21x40 bino's
Barska 20x80mm Bino's
(CCD)LPI,Meade Video Eyepiece
Canon A-E1 SLR,Canon EOS ElanII
Observ. foundation formed up!
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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 1778
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Will Light Pollution spark a Renaissance in Lunar and Planetary observing? Or Solar observing?
I would say that the renaissance has already happened -- thanks largely to the advent of webcam stacking.
But it's intriguing to notice that the heyday of planetary observing was when light pollution was small or non-existent, and that deep-sky observing mushroomed in popularity during the 70s and 80s, just as light-pollution was expanding most rapidly. Coincidence, at some level, but still, there it is.
Quote:
In another 25 years there will hardly be a dark sky site within practical driving distance of most anyone on this forum.
That I doubt. To a large extent, dark skies in North America exist because of government-protected land. And I don't see that government protection disappearing in a hurry.
Moreover, high energy prices are bound to put at least a little bit of a dent into increasing light pollution.
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Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 958
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
Moreover, high energy prices are bound to put at least a little bit of a dent into increasing light pollution.
As if the crude prices weren't bad enough, we're actually starting to see a run-up in coal prices now:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/coal/page/coalnews/coalmar.html
This shouldn't come as a surprise in light of world events. China recently became a net importer of coal. If there's any worldwide commodity that China needs to grow its briskly-accelerating economy, the price of that commodity will soar.
Coal-to-liquids (or "CTL" in the energy biz) is an option for greater energy independence, but it would send coal prices to the moon. Since 50% of our electrical generation here in the U.S. comes from coal, diverting coal for our fuel tanks would probably result in significant spikes in electrical rates.
Look on the bright (no pun intended) side, folks--The high gas prices, in combination with the subprime debacle, will dampen enthusiasm for relocation to outer suburbs that are gobbling up countryside--and dark skies.
Now if I can just afford the gas to get to Spruce Knob...
Clear Skies,
Phil
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"Why suffer from insanity when you can revel in it?"
Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
3 Eyepieces
2 Telescopes
1 Binocular Pair
*****
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panhard
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 2072
Loc: 43.88 n 79.17 w
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If light pollution won't cause it the cost of gasoline might. 
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10"Sky watcher dob
8 & 17mm Hyperion eye pieces
12x50 binos
A love for this hobby
"What goes around comes around."
"She who must be obeyed."
Herb c
cloudy nights my # 1 site
43.53°n 79.17°w
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rathbaster
super member
Reged: 03/21/08
Posts: 179
Loc: East Bridgewater, MA
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I find my own observing turns more to Lunar and Planetary viewing these days, partly due to local light pollution, partly due to changes in my viewing interests.
We've used an 8" GPS scope at the college observatory I run to find DSOs under moderately light polluted skies. Since the public doesn't look for all that long I can't see us going over entirely to Lunar/Planetary observing. I think the advent of these scopes with their remarkable capabilities will keep light polluted DSO viewing alive (though 'hunting' DSOs will not be the same)
-Joe
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Bridgewater State College Observatory
Celestron (Vixen) 6" F/5 Newt (1991)
80mm F/6 Nighthawk
76mm F/15 Tasco 15TE Planetary
TV Smooth Sided Plossls
Fawrowski Plossls
Planetary's (Teton)
Lots of H/HM/R/AR/KE
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Variable
member
Reged: 11/30/05
Posts: 15
Loc: Coral Springs, FL
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Given the LP in my neighborhood, planetary and lunar observing comprises about 90% of my viewing time.
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colinsk
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 893
Loc: CA
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I live in the middle of a small city and dragging the dob out is not really that enjoyable. I use if for the Messier objects and not much fainter. I spend 90% of my time as a solar observer. The sun is quite dynamic and now that H-alpha technology is come down in price it is quite affordable.
I miss the skys of my youth when you could see your shadow by Milkyway before the moon rose in the summertime.
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Mahalo.
Coulter 10.1" Dobsonian
Coronado PST
TV-76
Lunt LS60TDS50FTBF1200- On Order 
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Jonzky
super member
Reged: 05/10/08
Posts: 136
Loc: London
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Well here in london I find all I can do is planetary observation, I don't know of any good observing locations and I find it hard to find 20 stars at night.
Couldn't nebulae filters help reduce the effects on LP though? And also when I was in the middle of the Israeli dessert a few months ago I have never seen anything like it before, even though I didn't have a scope with me I climbed up a hill and then saw thousands of stars with no light pollution what so ever.
Jon
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My Scopes:
CPC 1100 WOW
130 SLT (Broken)
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Brought to you from the light polluted London
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 25582
Loc: montana
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Jon, Allow me to Welcome you to Cloudy Nights! We are most pleased you joined the forums!
People that have not seen truly dark skies, are absolutely stunned when they do see them. With the many, many stars, it's confusing to even pick out the Constellations.
For Filter help, journey over to the Equip or Eyepiece Forums, for excellent advise.
Again, Welcome!
Carol
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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panhard
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 2072
Loc: 43.88 n 79.17 w
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A warm welcome to you. You have come to the best of the web for advice on our hobby. You will get lots of good hints and advice here. Just remember that we do not see any question as stupid here. The folks here are great. Just relax and enjoy your time At the top of every forum there is a section called the best of, read the best of a lot of your questions will be answered in these sections. There are also great links in these. Welcome another thing be patient with your self. Enjoy your scope and the skies.  Also try and find an astronomy club near you, they will know of a darker site nearby. Just getting away from the city by80 to 120 km will improve your viewing.
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10"Sky watcher dob
8 & 17mm Hyperion eye pieces
12x50 binos
A love for this hobby
"What goes around comes around."
"She who must be obeyed."
Herb c
cloudy nights my # 1 site
43.53°n 79.17°w
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RussL
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1132
Loc: Cayce, SC
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It may be, but not for me--I'm too big of a cluster fan. I'll still be digging.
It is sad that we are losing our star heritage and that people seldom contemplate while gazing at the night sky. Many thinkers of the past did so. There was much to see whether you were studying it or not. I still go out and just stare, even with light pollution. I let my thoughts run around among the stars. Therefore I AM IN the stars.
When you put your eyes and thoughts on and in the stars, you are there, and a conversation begins as the stars reply to you. I actually hear it, not in words, but but in feelings in a language that only the stars and I know.
I'm not kidding. 
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--Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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Duncan Kitchin
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/16/04
Posts: 811
Loc: Beaverton, OR, USA
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I've pretty much decided not to bother observing/imaging except at star parties some distance away. The LP is just so bad... coupled with typically very poor transparency the usual view is an orange-pink soup.
Maybe I should get a nice long fl refractor or something for lunar and planetary... 
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Atlas EQ-G
150mm f/5 Newtonian, Baader MPCC
80mm f/11.4 Guidescope
Canon 300D Modified with Baader IR Filter
Orion StarShoot Autoguider
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leo9
member
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Western Oregon, USA
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Most of my adult life I lived in rural eastern Oregon, where light pollution was just a theory... naked eye observing was a visual feast, and I could regularly see naked eye to Mag 5.0 (not joking tho maybe off a bit due to inexperience) - sometimes a tenth or two better. Then I moved to western Oregon. Man I had no idea how bad LP can be. It's a good thing I enjoy viewing the moon... I do have a small "good seeing" dome from the zenith down about 30 degrees. Now all I have to do is figure out how to get underneath my telescope to view near the zenith. 
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Nikon 12x50 Action; Pentax 8x40 PCF WPII
Bogen 3220 w/3way+qw
Trico SkyWindow
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king1522
super member
Reged: 04/25/08
Posts: 118
Loc: Texas
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It's absolutely amazing to me why people can't see the light. No pun intended. Everyone these days seems to talk about the energy crisis, but no one ever does much about it. All the proposals by the politicians are far down the road. Something that could be done now is for all the cities to stop burning all lights, except street lights, emergency lights, etc. Can you even imagine the electricity saved by not lighting up all the buildings and advertising signs? Congress cannot and will not do anything about it. The advertising industry will squeal, but how many people see thier signs after midnight. Unfortunely, it will take a national news blitz by the major networks to make this happen. Then again, they probably want to endanger their advertising income. We made it through the blackouts in WW2 and will probable make it again.
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Don
Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The more you roll off, the faster it goes.
Edited by king1522 (06/18/08 05:10 PM)
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leo9
member
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Western Oregon, USA
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king, I'm with you... I worked for the Feds for years (forestry) and learned a hard,frustrating truth... politics trumps science and common sense. Fact is the government will only respond quickly to a massive voter outcry, or a catastrophe. Best bet in my mind is to do the following:
1.turn off our own outdoor lighting.
2.ask our neighbors to do the same
3.get with a group and petition city hall - $ savings carries a big punch with them, even if seeing the wonders of the night sky does not.
4.at every opportunity show friends and families the universe from our backyard. While wowing them with info on the universe, include complaints about LP where they can really see the affect.
5.spend a lot more time observing the moon and planets! Frankly I think that is what I have to do ... dark sky sites are simply too tough for me to get to these days. Getting into the backyard is a challenge for me some days.
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OOPS soap box broke! I am done for now. lol 
Edited by leo9 (06/18/08 06:07 PM)
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king1522
super member
Reged: 04/25/08
Posts: 118
Loc: Texas
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Good suggestions Leo9. I am thinking of writing all the major networks. Not sure where to write yet, but it couldn't hurt.
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Don
Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The more you roll off, the faster it goes.
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