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dmilleraz
journeyman
Reged: 06/20/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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I am going through the process of designing my observatory in NE Arizona and it seems I have more questions then answers.
Currently I have some of the equipment for the project.
Scope: 16" RC (bought used from a good friend)
Mount: Paramount ME
And that is it!
This observatory is going on my property where I have just started construction of a log home. Most of the year the observatory will be remotely run so I need to take that into consideration. My thought is that I would use possibly the Pier-Tech solution (Tele-Station 2 Observatory & Pier-Tech 2 or 3 Pier). Any other suggestions when it comes to remotely operated, roll-off observatories?
The other question I am dealing with is power. My property is on the power grid but I am designing my house to be run on solar and only use the grid if necessary. I also will have a backup generator as well for the house. The observatory will be about 500 feet from the house. I was considering running the observatory off of solar with a large bank of batteries. Does anyone have experience with a completely solar observatory that is run remotely? If so, do I need a backup generator as well or should I just hook it up to the grid and not worry about it?
I have many more questions but I need to pick the roll-off manufacturer and decide on power soon.
Thanks,
Dave Miller
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Carefree, AZ Clear Sky Clock
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John Fitzgerald
In Focus
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1029
Loc: AR
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PM sent.
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?
Observing since 1966
Messier Cert #898
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1965healey
Enginurse
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Welcome to CN and congratulations on your upcoming observatory build! Probably our best and brightest on remote control of an observatory is Marcus who has JATO.. a remotely operated Sirius dome. A number of his operations are solar powered and he can in fact run his observatory using his iPhone from anywhere in the world. You can check out his site at JATO You'll find that most of us here at CN are more than willing to bend your eyes and ears and show off our observatories! Our observatories run from simple DIY projects using PVC pipe and tarps to 30' domes with huge hand made Dobs lurking inside. Most of us who've built an observatory have a thread that chronicles the build and we post lots of pictures so you can follow along. Some builds go quickly and smooth as glass, others have been a lesson in frustration and grace under pressure. This is the place to ask your questions and get answers from all over the world or just around the corner. So once again welcome to CN and please share your progress as you move forward.
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
A little too much money and NO SELF CONTROL!
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TAMUASTRO
member
Reged: 10/21/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Texas
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Dave:
PM sent
OB
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dmilleraz
journeyman
Reged: 06/20/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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I appreciate the reply as well as the pm's. I went to the jatobservatory website and realized that I have a lot to learn and consider.  I still think I like the roll-off versus the dome because I won't have any light pollution to worry about. The only other consideration I see would be wind and honestly I don't know how bad it gets on my property. I am going to research that before I make a final decision though.
I am going to spend some time and read back through the threads and get some more knowledge. It is tough for me because I want instant gratification but I realize this is not as easy as I first thought. To have a non-robotic dome is one thing, but to be completely remote is another I am learning.
Again, thanks for the replies and comments and I will start posting pictures of my land as well as my progress. Any additional comments would be appreciated and I will continue to ask questions as they come up.
Regards,
Dave Miller 
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Carefree, AZ Clear Sky Clock
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1965healey
Enginurse
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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I can really identify with the instant gratification, I am the worlds worst at waiting. My boss likes to remind me that I am a nurse who has no patience. Clever play on words but all too true!
I prowled around CN for months before I began my observatory, read every thread probably three times and looked at all the pix over and over. I actually bought some property along with my brother about 50 miles outside of town with every intention of building an obs on it. In the end my observatory was built on top of my garage here in town. Ready to observe in 10 minutes and no drive time. I was fortunate enough to hook-up with Scott at Backyard Observatories and he was skilled enough to take my designs and turn them into an observatory that not only meets my needs (and skills) today but can grow along with me.
The time that you spend researching and learning about observatories and control systems now will reap benefits that can save you hours of frustration and lots of dollars downstream.
You have a scope and mount that many of us have fantasies about and would probably drool on if allowed to stand at the EP. That combination deserves a set-up that will allow you to enjoy it to the fullest. Take your time in the planning stage, there are a number of CN members in the South West and given half a chance they'd love to help you along this journey. There are several Observatory Control options available, a Google search will net you at least a dozen sites.
Astronomy is a hole in the sky to throw money into, the more research you do now the better your aim will be and the fewer shots/dollars you'll waste.
If you just tell us what your budget is ALL of us will happily "help" you spend it!
Once again Welcome to CN and thanks for becoming part of our community!
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
A little too much money and NO SELF CONTROL!
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astrotrf
sage
Reged: 09/30/07
Posts: 215
Loc: Rodeo, NM
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Dave,
I think you can do without a backup generator; all that means is that you'd have to trudge out to the observatory to park the scope and close the roof. In my own case, my rolloff does not close manually, so a backup generator was a necessity.
Out here in the Arizona desert (I'm in Tucson), my own recommendation is to set yourself up remotely so that you do NOT have a computer at the observatory, most especially due to the summertime heat. I operate my own observatory from a climate-controlled room by running networked over a fiber-optic line to Anywhere/USB and Edgeport boxes. As I said, I roll the roof manually, but it wouldn't be hard to automate this with a serial-controlled SPDT AC relay.
You might consider running a video line, too, so you can use a low-light-level camera to take a peek at the equipment once in a while. It's a real confidence-builder when you command the roof to close *knowing* that the scope is properly parked!
I'd be happy to try to answer any questions you might have.
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Terry (astrotrf)
Edited by astrotrf (06/24/08 10:29 AM)
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dmilleraz
journeyman
Reged: 06/20/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I have been reading through all of the threads and have really learned a great deal. The jatobservatory.com site has been extremely helpful as well.
In response to "astrotrf", my concern about a backup generator is that I won't always be at the observatory or even close. My main home is in North Phoenix and the observatory is about 170 miles or so from my house. Most of the summer I will be at the cabin but in the winter I will be in Phoenix.
When I read through the post again I am thinking you meant running the fiber to the cabin and not having a computer in the observatory. That makes a lot of sense and then I don't have to worry about backup power for the roll-off. I'm glad I read that twice.
Another question I have is related to the roll-off I am putting at my house in Phoenix. As we all know, the heat and sun in Phoenix are incredible during the summer. I am worried about the heat ruining the equipment. What are the possibilities or has anyone used an a/c for the observatory. I know I saw one on jatobservatory.com but I think it was a simple on/off a/c. (not sure?) What I would like to do is automate the a/c so that it would set the temperature based on the next nights low. I am not a computer programmer so I have no idea how to do this but if the scope is kept at that temperature then cool down is not an issue. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Dave Miller
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Carefree, AZ Clear Sky Clock
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1965healey
Enginurse
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Lots of traffic flying on this site about observatories and heat now that summer is here! Fixes have run the gamut from screened grills to ridge vents, from temp controlled fans and Reflectix Radiant Barrier to full blown HVAC units. Some of us use just one thing and some use a combination of several or even all of them. Alot depends on when you plan on being in the obs, if you're only going to be out in the obs at night then just keeping it below about 100F will probably do according to most of the conventional wisdom.. Above that and electronics and adhesives tend to get cranky and unpredictable. Dr. Clay Sherrod takes a bit of a harder line and says to treat your obs like a baby's nursery and he keeps his insulated and no hotter than 80F. My vote goes with him and I'm adding climate controls as my overtime checks permit. This week it's Reflectix Radiant Barrier and a Gable End Fan that's thermostatically controlled, next weeks check it'll be a "portable" HVAC/Dehumidifier unit. The first two fixes will keep the HVAC unit when it's installed from having to work overtime (unlike me!). I would think that if you followed Dr. Clay's advice and just kept things at 80F you'd be fine. I like the idea of the AC unit for working in the obs during the day when it's 110F outside and you want to be COMFORTABLE inside! Then you just turn off the gable end fan and keep all that nice cool A/C air inside!
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
A little too much money and NO SELF CONTROL!
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DeanS
sage
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 406
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
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Mine is cooled in the summer, and slightly heated in the winter. My main goal is humidity control, ok I do like the computer room comfortable to 
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8" LX200gps
AP1200GTO Mach1GTO
FS-60C Tak E160 C9.25
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
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JAT Observatory
Space Freak
Reged: 02/20/05
Posts: 5370
Loc: Eastern PA
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Dave,
My A/C unit has a thermostat. The problem is it is to small BTU wise, but it works OK as a heater. The ON/OFF switch is there so it turns off when the shutters open (no sense in trying to cool the whole world).
I wouldn't bother trying to program the temp for a given night. Just find and average and set the thermostat to that. You scope will still have to either cool down or warm up but it will only be a few degrees. The key is to program the roof the auto open to allow the equipment to cool down so it's ready to use when its dark.
That brings up another issue, roof control. If you plan on operating remotely in the winter (170 miles away) you obviously need remote roof control. You also need the roof to auto close if rain rolls in, which means you will need a rain detector. That will also tell you if it is safe to open the roof in the first place.
The other issue is power failures, you need to be able to close the roof if there is a power failure. My shutters are setup to auto close in the event of loss of power. Because I have a dome that meant the shutters already required battery power for operation.
The main issue I see in your case since you plan is for a roll off is making sure the scope is auto parked or lowered so the roof clears it if you have a power outage. That is going to require some sort of failover to battery or generator. (I personally think the generator is overkill unless you plan on using your system during a power outage. There are also a whole new set of issues to worry about if you take that approach).
The other issue is the Paramount has no way to auto park itself without computer control. That means you would more than likely have to lower it if the roof doesn't clear. Just some more things to think about.
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-Marcus
Earth is the solar system's ghetto
http://jatobservatory.org
12" LX200R on a Paramount ME
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dmilleraz
journeyman
Reged: 06/20/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Wow! The excitement just keeps getting better! I heard back from Pier-Tech and it looks like the lead time is September for the 10x10 and October for the 10x15 and 10x20. That will give me time now to get the foundation ready and ordering all the other equipment I will need.
I agree I would be taking it a bit to far by calculating each days low and then having the a/c set at that. I did a little history search for the area and in the summer the low temperature really only deviates by a few degrees.
I definitely will be remotely opening and closing the roof and automating it for weather. I am still trying to figure out how all the pieces fit together but I will have a weather station and cloud sensor. I will be using the system that Pier-Tech has for observatory automation. I also have the Bisque TCS MKS4000 for the telescope control. I still need to research how these pieces fit together to make the magic happen.
I am also still researching different programs for all the controls but on my list are Maxim DL, ACP (CCD Autopilot 3), TheSky6, Tpoint, FocusMax, etc.
I still have yet to decide on a ccd imager for the system and frankly, I have no idea what to purchase. My shortlist of companies are, SBIG, Apogee, and Finger Lakes Instrumentation. I want to purchase the best possible imager but I also don't want to waste unneeded money. I have seen Class 0,1, and 2 chips but I don't know if it is really worth the money to buy a class 0 chip. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Dave Miller
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Carefree, AZ Clear Sky Clock
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1965healey
Enginurse
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2548
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Buy an inexpensive aluminum shed or even a big aluminum trash can, paint it bright white and take it out to your site. Put a digital thermometer inside that records high/low temps. Close the lid and leave it for a week. Come back and look at the readings. Those'll be the temps you'll have to deal with inside of an uninsulated metal building. The temperatures inside my silver SUV reach 130F when it's parked outside in the Texas summer sun. Phoenix gets a quite a bit hotter than San Antonio. Not trying to rain on your parade but heat can be brutal on electronics and tolerance of components/accuracy of calibration may be affected.
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
A little too much money and NO SELF CONTROL!
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astrotrf
sage
Reged: 09/30/07
Posts: 215
Loc: Rodeo, NM
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Dave,
I debated this for quite some time, and, in the end, I decided not to insulate my observatory. I stuck with a low-thermal-mass design and just open the roof at sunset to give the building (and equipment) a couple of hours to cool to ambient. Venting is a good idea, though, and I need to install a push/pull pair of fans for that.
The heat has not bothered my Paramount so far; it's been in the building for 3 years now. Franky, I'm willing to trade off the convenience of a permanently-set-up mount vs. the possibility that I may have to replace the mount's electronics some day, so I'm not worrying about this.
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I still have yet to decide on a ccd imager for the system and frankly, I have no idea what to purchase. My shortlist of companies are, SBIG, Apogee, and Finger Lakes Instrumentation. I want to purchase the best possible imager but I also don't want to waste unneeded money. I have seen Class 0,1, and 2 chips but I don't know if it is really worth the money to buy a class 0 chip. Any suggestions?
IMHO, the thing to do here is to balance your monetary outlay against the capability of your equipment and the ultimate quality of images you expect to capture. It's possible to take very good images with some of the less-expensive imagers; a bit of web surfing will demonstrate that.
Having said that -- if your equipment is capable of making use of large-format CCD chips with small pixels, and you want to at least have the capacity to take the very best images, that'll help dictate the choice of camera.
I have a class 1 camera myself; I have a friend with a class 2 camera who is quite happy with it -- image-processing techniques remove the defects to his satisfaction and his images look great.
I find that since I made the decision to build and operate my own observatory, there is no such thing as "unneeded money". 
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Terry (astrotrf)
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TAMUASTRO
member
Reged: 10/21/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Texas
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Hi Dave:
regarding the Pier-Tech roll off roof observatories and heat. The pier-tech wall panel are aluminum skin with a black plastic inner that is also corrugated allowing air spaced segments. This dramatically cuts down on the radiated heat that would normally transmit into the observatory, if the wall panels were solid aluminum panels. Remarkably the pier-tech observatories that we have at our school stay pretty cool even in the texas sun.
OB
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Scott K
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 719
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Quote:
Wow! The excitement just keeps getting better! I heard back from Pier-Tech and it looks like the lead time is September for the 10x10 and October for the 10x15 and 10x20. That will give me time now to get the foundation ready and ordering all the other equipment I will need.
Hi Dave,
Your project sounds great, and Vito at Piertech builds amazing stuff. (I've got one of his PT3 piers, and it's terrific!)
One thing I'd caution you about in your plan, is that you should give yourself lots of extra padding in your schedule, especially if you plan on hiring anyone to help you build the foundation, or other parts of the structure, and you're in a remote area.
One of the mistakes I feel I made was that I ordered almost everything all at once, hoping that the lead time for the delivery of my dome would allow me plenty of time to get the foundation in place.
Well - it didn't. So we didn't build the foundation until after the dome arrived. I was completely freaked out about this, and as a result, really didn't check the work of the subcontractor who poured my foundation. After trying to get someone to even do it for 3 months, I felt a lot of pressure to just get it done - I had the dome sitting in a giant wooden crate on my lawn, after all. This didn't work out very well, and eight months later, I'm still trying to fix the problems.
Anyway, you may have all this under control, or this may be a total non issue. But I just wanted to throw out a cautionary word, because in the end I feel that my concern over the arrival of my dome and other components ended up driving some of my constructions decisions, and that my project suffered greatly because of this.
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