o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 1156
Loc: The Big Tomato, California
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I have taken to referring to the various lighting some folks use as "INsecurity" lighting. This usually sparks a discussion that sometimes leads to a new point of view in the minds of those who have such lighting, particularly with respect to using sensor-triggered lighting instead of leaving the lights on all night.
With energy costs being what they are, 24/7 lighting is a very bad deal and this is an argument even the staunchest proponents of INsecurity lighting understand.
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Kit
"There's only two things that excite a man, expensive toys and real expensive toys." - Red Green
* A bunch of old ATM stuff that cost me next to nothing
* A bunch of new commercial stuff that cost me an arm and a leg
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1965healey
Enginurse
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2532
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
Now for the next step: to convince people that when it comes to lighting the night, less is more. But most people still firmly believe that turning the night into day equals safety and low crime.
That's what motion detector lights are for. If it's DARK and a bright light suddenly come on crooks run and the good guys look out the window. If it's NEVER dark then why pay attention. 
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
A little too much money and NO SELF CONTROL!
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PXR-5
super member
Reged: 03/28/08
Posts: 183
Loc: Monroe, NC
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Quote:
Now for the next step: to convince people that when it comes to lighting the night, less is more. But most people still firmly believe that turning the night into day equals safety and low crime.
Is that possible? Put yourself in thier shoes, They dont care about dark sky, just protecting thier family.
Go to the hardware store and look at the flood/spot light packaging it screams that you care for your family, many even have a picture of a cute blond baby sleeping on the box. Mr customer, dont you care enough about your family to spend $12.95? Who cares about the geeky Jone's teenager looking thru a scope, he should not be outside at night. (he is probably smoking somthing anyway) 
Sorry for the rant 
I guess downward facing lamps are better but all of the lighting by me is that type and my night sky looks like Mar's daytime... orange 
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Jeff
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I hope you brought your credit card with you, and I hope you know how to
Drive on these long, lonely freeways and intersections we've got up
Here. We've got two cars in the garage, and
Drum-majorettes in white ankle socks and baton twirling on Sundays.
We've got stripes and the stars and Uncle Sam's on Mars....
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Joe Lalumia
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 2357
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Dave-- I cannot answer your question on the exact angle of the new style "cut-off" cobra fixtures-- however it cannot be MORE than a 90 degree spread-- as the fixture itself cuts off the light and the bulb and glass do not protrude below the fixture bottom..... maybe an engineer can give us the exact cutoff angle-- although this may depend on the brand of fixture.
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s.
I told my wife that old men were like fine aged wine--- so she locked me in the cellar!
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1965healey
Enginurse
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2532
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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I'll go out tonight and try and get a some pix of the light pattern. If that doesn't work I'll "walk it out" and try and sketch it.
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
A little too much money and NO SELF CONTROL!
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jrw11
sage
Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 489
Loc: U.S.A.
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Karen, what you said about the motion detectors, I agree 1,000%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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Celestron C6n -HD Reflector
dual axis drive motors added
Orion 80mm Short tube refractor
Skyscout
Early 70's Pentax 7x50
Garrett Optical 12x60
Garrett Optical 15x70
Oberwerk 20x80 Standards
Canon Rebel Ti (film)
4 Minolta Srt cameras
Mamiya RB67 Pro-s with 180 lens
127mm KL lens for RB, Bellows hood for RB67
120 and 220 film backs
over 50 other film cameras
several eyepieces
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panhard
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 2059
Loc: 43.88 n 79.17 w
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Quote:
Dave-- I cannot answer your question on the exact angle of the new style "cut-off" cobra fixtures-- however it cannot be MORE than a 90 degree spread-- as the fixture itself cuts off the light and the bulb and glass do not protrude below the fixture bottom..... maybe an engineer can give us the exact cutoff angle-- although this may depend on the brand of fixture.
The new ones that they are using here the lens is recessed by 2 or 3" also it is flat. It is much better than the ones that are flush with the fixture and has a bulb like lens that spreads the light.
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10"Sky watcher dob
8 & 17mm Hyperion eye pieces
12x50 binos
A love for this hobby
"What goes around comes around."
"She who must be obeyed."
Herb c
cloudy nights my # 1 site
43.53°n 79.17°w
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1965healey
Enginurse
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2532
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Went out to try and take a pix of the street lights "angle of illumination" but failed miserably. The street light sits about 30' above the ground on an outrigger from the pole that positions it so that if you drew a diagonal line to the opposing corner it would follow that line and protrude about 8' out from the pole. It doesn't point straight down but is angled towards that opposite diagonal corner about 20 degrees from horizontal. The street intersection is a standard residential width about 30' wide. They were nice enough to point it AWAY from my house so that the street, sidewalk and yards are only illuminated for about 30' in most directions, about 20' towards my house.
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
A little too much money and NO SELF CONTROL!
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panhard
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 2059
Loc: 43.88 n 79.17 w
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AWSOME!
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10"Sky watcher dob
8 & 17mm Hyperion eye pieces
12x50 binos
A love for this hobby
"What goes around comes around."
"She who must be obeyed."
Herb c
cloudy nights my # 1 site
43.53°n 79.17°w
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 689
Loc: Cattaraugus Co., NY
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Quote:
That's what motion detector lights are for. If it's DARK and a bright light suddenly come on crooks run and the good guys look out the window. If it's NEVER dark then why pay attention.
We had a solar powered motion detector light mounted on the barn. I was glad when the battery quit. I got tired of looking out the window just to find that a skunk, raccoon, deer or cat was passing by.
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Ted
635mm F/4.964 Grab and Tow
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1965healey
Enginurse
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2532
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
Quote:
That's what motion detector lights are for. If it's DARK and a bright light suddenly come on crooks run and the good guys look out the window. If it's NEVER dark then why pay attention.
We had a solar powered motion detector light mounted on the barn. I was glad when the battery quit. I got tired of looking out the window just to find that a skunk, raccoon, deer or cat was passing by.
Oddly enough they're adjustable for just that reason. That way they only go off when the 2 legged skunks pass by.
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
A little too much money and NO SELF CONTROL!
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John Fitzgerald
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 1010
Loc: AR
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In a few years electricity will become too expensive to use for inefficient lighting.
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?
Observing since 1966
Messier Cert #898
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David L
super member
Reged: 11/12/07
Posts: 122
Loc: Lee County Iowa
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As it stands now with regards to lighting, if more energy efficient lighting is introduced, people tend to just use more lighting, keeping what they spend on lighting relatively constant. A similar thing seems obtain with driving. Perhaps the advent of electric cars will sufficiently raise the price of electricity and we know how much we love our driving... As far as I can tell, our best hope at getting less wasteful lighting is going to have to start with lighting engineers and manufacturers, with mandates if necessary, much the way it is with toilets now being less wasteful with water.
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8.5 X 44 Swift Audubon binoculars
100 mm semi-apo triplet PVC spotting scope
6 inch F8 dobsonian
10 inch F4.5 dobsonian
2 2-cylinder equatorial platforms, 2-roller direct drive
22X100 Oberwerk binoculars (just received)
6" F6.5 Antares refractor (on order)
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