knuklhdastnmr
Pepperbelly
Reged: 02/24/05
Posts: 3578
Loc: Beerpuddle, Colorado
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Welcome to the Cloudy Nights Monthly Imaging Challenge in the Beginning Imaging Forum.
This competition is intended to be a fun way for you to improve your imaging abilities and a way for you to see many new images with a variety of equipment. All imagers are welcome and encouraged to enter.
There are two categories in the Beginning Challenge - a "Bright" object category (a planetary, lunar or similar object that can be imaged with an unmodified webcam, "LPI" type imager, or a digicam - in short, a camera that is not capable of long exposures) and a "DSO" object category (for nebulas, galaxies and the like, which must be captured by a camera capable of long exposures).
Each month an object will be selected in each category of the competition by the winner in that category from 2 months previous. Having a one month delay allows voting and selection of the next object and will give a full month's time for entries.
July's "Bright" subject is Lunar Crater Aristotles. July's "DSO" subject is NGC7023, the Iris Nebula.
The winning image in each category will be included in the Hall of Fame message thread. There are no other prizes.
Please include your imaging details such as location, date, telescope, guiding, exposure time, etc with your submission.
Rules:
1. Have fun! Support other contestants and be polite with your comments. 2. All entries must be captured within the same imaging season. For example, if the December target is the Orion Nebula, you must use images taken during the current winter, not any other year. For Lunar targets the image must have been captured within the 12 months preceding the date of submission 3. Entries are limited to absolute maximums of 100,000 bytes in file size and 800 pixels X 800 pixels square. Entries that do not meet this criteria will be disqualified. [TIP: It is our strong suggestion that you carefully check the file size of your image before and after submitting it to insure that it is *below* the 100,000 byte limit - a difference of just a few bytes too many can literally make the difference between winning the contest and disqualification. Take this advice from folks who know - a few hundred bytes is not enough to make a difference in your image that's worth risking disqualification to achieve. Don't be disqualified trying to push the limit to the wall. It's not worth it. You can check to be sure that your posted image meets the file size maximum by right clicking on the image and looking at it's properties.] 4. A separate submission thread will be created for each category. Please post your submissions in the proper thread. 5. Please do not post comments in the submission threads. You may post your comments about the submissions here in this thread. 6. Any equipment is allowed to be used in the images including rental equipment. 7. All image taking and development must be done by you. The one exception to this is that husband/wife teams are permitted. 8. Each person (or husband/wife team) may submit only 1 entry per month in each category. However, you may edit your submission and replace the image with a newer one if you wish using the Edit function. 9. If you win a Beginning Challenge more than 3 times (3 times for DSO or 3 times for Bright Objects), you will officially "Graduate" from that Challenge Category and may no longer submit images in the category that you have "Graduated" from. This is intended to encourage successful imagers to continue to sharpen their skills and increase their level of challenge, and also to give those who have not yet won one a clear shot at the title!
These rules may be changed each month as we figure out how to make this a more enjoyable experience for everyone.
Now polar align those mounts and get to capturin' some images!
Good Luck!
-------------------- Knucklhead Astronomer
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Jerry3672
Vendor - Quantum Astronomy Products
   
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Lexington NC
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The rules are just fine. I like #1 Have fun. I follow it to the tee. It's the file size that got me. My crater from June was just a bit too big, so it had to get tossed from the voting, much like a few states did in the primary.
For July I plan on renting equipment. What will NASA charge for the Hubble for a couple of hours? Just kidding. My little DSI is too much fun.
Thanks to all for a great challenge.
-------------------- Meade LXD75-SN-8
C11
DSI Pro
Sony H7
Canon XSi 450D unmod
www.spike-a.com
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Emma H
newbie
Reged: 07/05/08
Posts: 2
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Well, not the same as hire rates, but a newspaper here in the UK recently featured a story saying that it costs £85 per megabyte to get data from Hubble, but it costs £375 per megabyte to send a text. Not sure if that's true, but it made me laugh!
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Jerry3672
Vendor - Quantum Astronomy Products
   
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Lexington NC
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I have a Comment for DaemonGPF.
Nice composite, however your 150x is zoomed in on Arisillus,Archimedes, and Autolycus.
You still have plenty of time to crop over Aristoles
-------------------- Meade LXD75-SN-8
C11
DSI Pro
Sony H7
Canon XSi 450D unmod
www.spike-a.com
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knuklhdastnmr
Pepperbelly
Reged: 02/24/05
Posts: 3578
Loc: Beerpuddle, Colorado
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HEADS UP - Important Information
I'm planning to be at the Weekend Under the Stars party sponsored by the Laramie and Cheyenne clubs at the end of the month. There is usually no internet access at this remote star party. I plan to leave on the 30th and return on the 3rd.
I'll post the August contest before I leave town, on the morning of the 30th. I'll do the polls after I get back, on the 3rd. I think that leaving the poll open until the 8th, like usual, should still give everyone time to vote. However, if I see a consensus developing, in this thread, to leave the polls open an extra day or so, I could be persuaded.
Of course, I also won't be able to remove anyone's submission on the 30th, to accommodate a new submission. So, try to have those requests in before the 30th, please.
Oh, and before anyone asks. Posts are all date stamped and any submission posted after 11:59pm EDT on the 30th shall be roundly ignored and may receive a flinging of rotten tomatoes. (I checked with Dan Quayle on how to spell the plural of tomato.)
-------------------- Knucklhead Astronomer
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FoxK
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 1800
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
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twomatoes i think
-------------------- Orion 80mm ED Apo Refractor
8" Classic Dob (used as Newtonian on CG5 mount)
Meade 70-AZ-A 70mm Guider using PHD
LS60TCaK/B600/C
CG-5 Advanced GT Mount
Nikon D40x with T-Adaptors
Philips SPC900NC
Imaging Source DMK 21AU04.AS
Dome=the box my mount came in so I can see my solar images in bright sun lol
- click for cloud prediction for Plymouth, MA. area
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DaemonGPF
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 1466
Loc: New Mexico
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Quote:
I have a Comment for DaemonGPF.
Nice composite, however your 150x is zoomed in on Arisillus,Archimedes, and Autolycus.
You still have plenty of time to crop over Aristoles
Yeah that's what I get for doing this in a hurry... It's ok, I plan to replace it with a better shot before the deadline, weather permitting. If not, I'll recrop.
-------------------- -Josh
*Orion Starblast Imaging 150mm OTA
*Orion Starblast Imaging 114mm OTA
*Meade 50mm AR short tube OTA
*Meade DSI Pro IIc
*Orion Starshoot DSCI
*CG5 mount
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My Messier Project Gallery
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sang33ta
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/08/08
Posts: 539
Loc: UK
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I think the DSO challenge would be better with clusters during summer.
-------------------- Hioptic 152mm f12.5 Maksutov
Celestron Advanced CG5-GT Mount (Mr Noisy!)
Meade 4000 Super Plossl Set
Casio QV-2900UX
Got fed up of waiting for Meade ETX-150 so put this together for £500/$1000
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John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
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May I suggest you update rule 8 to reflect how long you have to change an image before it's no longer editable? I didn't realize there was a time limit. It would be even nicer if this limit could be increased to 31 days to avoid the issue altogether. Until then, I'm not going to post before the last day of the month.
I am NOT a clown
-------------------- John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
   
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6578
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Quote:
May I suggest you update rule 8 to reflect how long you have to change an image before it's no longer editable? I didn't realize there was a time limit. It would be even nicer if this limit could be increased to 31 days to avoid the issue altogether. Until then, I'm not going to post before the last day of the month.
I am NOT a clown
The thing there is that the cut off for editing the post is a global setting on the board. I'm not sure if it can be easily changed, but if it can you can't change it without the change affecting the entire site.
Charlie
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Weston CSC:
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DaemonGPF
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 1466
Loc: New Mexico
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..apparently I've been labled a clown for posting to early.. I guess that's better than some of my employees call me.
-------------------- -Josh
*Orion Starblast Imaging 150mm OTA
*Orion Starblast Imaging 114mm OTA
*Meade 50mm AR short tube OTA
*Meade DSI Pro IIc
*Orion Starshoot DSCI
*CG5 mount
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My Messier Project Gallery
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knuklhdastnmr
Pepperbelly
Reged: 02/24/05
Posts: 3578
Loc: Beerpuddle, Colorado
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Ok, I retract the "clown" comment.
The truth is I can't even come close to producing some of the images you guys are taking down because you've got something even better.
Just don't get upset if the waiting room for submission surgery gets full near the end of the month.
-------------------- Knucklhead Astronomer
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knuklhdastnmr
Pepperbelly
Reged: 02/24/05
Posts: 3578
Loc: Beerpuddle, Colorado
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We haven't had this many comments on a contest in a long time.
-------------------- Knucklhead Astronomer
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Adrena1in
sage
Reged: 09/02/07
Posts: 275
Loc: Hampshire, UK
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More comments that DSO submissions, that's for sure.
Can I bring someone's attention to the latest submission in the July DSO challenge. It's of M42, which, from what I can tell, isn't the subject of this month's entries. Or am I missing something?
I've missed my chance on the moon this month I think, but I was intending to try and enter the DSO challenge if I get some clear skies in the next few days.
-------------------- Phenix 102mm f/5.9, Phenix 127mm f/9.5 and Orion ST80 f/5 refractors on EQ5 with GOTOStar
Phillips SPC900NC, Meade DSI-C, Canon EOS 450D with 18-55mm IS, 28-105mm and 75-300mm plus 2x TC
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John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
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Quote:
I'm not sure if it can be easily changed, but if it can you can't change it without the change affecting the entire site.
It would be nice for the imaging competitions so we're not locked into our first 'take'. It would also encourage earlier submissions- since you can see the DSO's this month are a little thin...
Seems like 30 days wouldn't be too long to let anyone edit posts in any forum, but that's my $.02
If that's not practical, maybe just put a note in the rules section that you need to PM the moderator if you need a post deleted if that's the correct procedure. If it's too much work for the moderators to remove a post then it should be a rule that you can't change your post once entered. I would think it would be better to encourage early entrants myself, but I also understand the mods are graciously volunteering their time to run the contests and I truly appreciate that! I just don't like getting in trouble when the rules aren't clear.
-------------------- John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
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Richard Scott
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 708
Loc: Tampa FL
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I posted in the Bright challenge early, and my Crater Aristoteles is about as good as I can do. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone is holding the winning bright submission for the last day, I’ve seen it happen before, but at the end of the day, we still decide who wins. I’m OK with that.
My pet peeve is mega dollar cameras in the beginners contests… They are hard to top with a $400 CCD.
Like the lead in to the forum says… “Typical beginning imaging equipment will include webcams, the Meade DSI and other low cost imagers.”
My two cents worth… Richard
-------------------- 11” Celestron XLT SCT
Orion ED80 APO
CG-5 GEM
JMI NGF-CM Focuser
Orion SSDSI
Meade DSI Pro
an assortment of 1.25” & 2" stuff
all tucked inside the Blue Moon Observatory
http://tinyurl.com/29b9wn
Basically more scope than my abilities warrant
"I know I can never look upon the stars without wondering why the whole world does not become astronomers."
Thomas Wright
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John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
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Quote:
My pet peeve is mega dollar cameras in the beginners contests… They are hard to top with a $400 CCD.
Yeah, I understand that. OTOH, I think it's fascinating seeing the range of images from handheld snapshots to polished hubble-worthy images all together. I really hope no one is discouraged to enter when they see some of the high-end images. Also, there is a rule that will eventually weed out the 'pros' from the competition 
For the bright objects, the $150 Toucam variations seem to produce some of the best images. The main thing there is patience and experience with stacking.
-------------------- John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
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DaemonGPF
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 1466
Loc: New Mexico
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I can see your point Richard about the high end equip. But I guess I can also see that if they are a novice, they can be topped even though they have an equipment edge.
I don't have what I call high end equip, but I know my DSI Pro II costs 5x-8x more than those webcams floating around, and I keep seeing a ton of people out there blowing me away with what many would consider to be borderline "jury rigged" equipment for all intensive purposes (referring to the webcams since AP isn't really their purpose at all.) And I don't intend to sound rude, it is impressive how well it works, but still it is basically a rigged and very low cost method. I think a vast majority of this boils down to experience and persistence. The former of which, I know I don't have in this arena..
Not that it means much coming from me, but so far, I think you've probably got the winning image Richard.
I don't think I'll have any chance of getting another shot at the moon now.. The weather isn't cooperating unless I try it in the morning after sunrise when the clouds tend to break up here..
-------------------- -Josh
*Orion Starblast Imaging 150mm OTA
*Orion Starblast Imaging 114mm OTA
*Meade 50mm AR short tube OTA
*Meade DSI Pro IIc
*Orion Starshoot DSCI
*CG5 mount
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My Messier Project Gallery
Edited by DaemonGPF (07/22/08 08:10 PM)
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Jerry3672
Vendor - Quantum Astronomy Products
   
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Lexington NC
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It is my understanding that you can use the edit function to replace an early submission with a better photo. I posted my bright as soon as I took the first photo. A few days later I went back and edited my post with a better photo.
So what is the limit on the number of edits you can do? or is it a function of time?
I like to post early, and then try to out do myself.
I am very new to astrophotography and the monthly challenge has been a huge help to hone my skills.
-------------------- Meade LXD75-SN-8
C11
DSI Pro
Sony H7
Canon XSi 450D unmod
www.spike-a.com
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
   
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6578
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Quote:
So what is the limit on the number of edits you can do? or is it a function of time?
It's definitely a function of time but I'm not certain how much time it is.
Charlie
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Weston CSC:
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sang33ta
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/08/08
Posts: 539
Loc: UK
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If you made a link to your own image hosting would that be okay because it would mean you could change your image as much as you want without pestering anyone
-------------------- Hioptic 152mm f12.5 Maksutov
Celestron Advanced CG5-GT Mount (Mr Noisy!)
Meade 4000 Super Plossl Set
Casio QV-2900UX
Got fed up of waiting for Meade ETX-150 so put this together for £500/$1000
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knuklhdastnmr
Pepperbelly
Reged: 02/24/05
Posts: 3578
Loc: Beerpuddle, Colorado
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The way I interpret the rule is practical. We allow a link to an image stored elsewhere, as long as it's the same image. It can be a higher resolution version. But, it must be the same image. When I make up the poll I capture the image posted in the submission thread for the poll. I will include the link to the higher resolution image. But, for the purposes of the poll, the image posted in your submission is the image entered in the contest.
For example, I don't think the poll would work if, instead of a posted photo, there was just a link. Also, if there were only a link there would be no control on changing the image even after voting in the poll had begun. There is also the risk that the link may break or your other site could go down.
-------------------- Knucklhead Astronomer
Edited by knuklhdastnmr (07/22/08 11:46 PM)
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
   
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6578
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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If I'm understanding the poster correctly then what he's saying is that the image on the remote site is displayed *as* the entry on CN. In this case the poster could conceivably edit the remote copy to their heart's content as long as:
- the URL back to the image doesn't break (i.e. the file name remains the same)
- the image meets the criteria specified in the rules in every respect
If either of these conditions weren't true then the image would be disqualified.
Charlie
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Weston CSC:
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John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
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That's a very interesting idea- I'm going to try that. Now I just have to get out and image if I can get a clear night up here!
We'd have to use the UBB Image tag I assume.
-------------------- John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
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FoxK
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 1800
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
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Hiyas
IMHO, rules are there for a couple of reasons, one of which is the help even the playfield somewhat. As i see it, having a 2 MB pic that's 800x600 is going to look undiscernable to most as compared with keeping under the 100k limit...however, not everyone has access to storage of large files so I think if someone posts a super widefield at 12 MB and is able to enter it as valid, then there may be an unfair advantage here. Lets be serious, no one's going to win a Pulitzer Prize here...its a fun contest for amateurs such as myself and limiting an image to 800x at 100kb is a simple rule, easy to follow and allows the submitter to have everyone see what the entry has to offer. Let the images stand on their own merits, and everyone upload them here. If there's a concern regarding frequent changes to a pic, then I see no problem limiting 1 change per contest and that way, we may be a bit more careful about our submissions.
-------------------- Orion 80mm ED Apo Refractor
8" Classic Dob (used as Newtonian on CG5 mount)
Meade 70-AZ-A 70mm Guider using PHD
LS60TCaK/B600/C
CG-5 Advanced GT Mount
Nikon D40x with T-Adaptors
Philips SPC900NC
Imaging Source DMK 21AU04.AS
Dome=the box my mount came in so I can see my solar images in bright sun lol
- click for cloud prediction for Plymouth, MA. area
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John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 351
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
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Quote:
As i see it, having a 2 MB pic that's 800x600 is going to look undiscernable to most as compared with keeping under the 100k limit...however, not everyone has access to storage of large files so I think if someone posts a super widefield at 12 MB and is able to enter it as valid
I think that's what Charlie was saying- only 100k, 800x600 max images are allowed whether they are stored offsite or on.
Many websites offer free storage of fairly large images- Google offers a gig of free storage for example- that's almost 10,000 images at 100k each!
Quote:
I see no problem limiting 1 change per contest and that way, we may be a bit more careful about our submissions.
That might be ok, but it's not currently possible to limit it to one change. It's currently limited to x number of days- I suspect it's around a week or less.
IMO, I think we should encourage early entries to get more images uploaded. If someone shoots something and it's a little off focus or there was a full moon, then is able to get out again and get a better shot I think that should be encouraged rather than discouraged. I like to think one point of these contests is to challenge us to improve our imaging ability. By saying you've got one and only one shot at imaging I think that discourages this aspect of the contest. As you say the main rule is to have fun! I just want things to go smoothly between the entrants and the moderators. Rule 8 has been causing problems hence this discussion.
-------------------- John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
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FoxK
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 1800
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
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Heya again
I just seem to remember at one time clicking on offsite links and seeing massive images submitted...mabey i'm just senile.
Anyways, if the size limit etc are the same, then i'm all for it...will save Knuk alotta work as well having to check his mail daily for reposts near the end of the contest.
-------------------- Orion 80mm ED Apo Refractor
8" Classic Dob (used as Newtonian on CG5 mount)
Meade 70-AZ-A 70mm Guider using PHD
LS60TCaK/B600/C
CG-5 Advanced GT Mount
Nikon D40x with T-Adaptors
Philips SPC900NC
Imaging Source DMK 21AU04.AS
Dome=the box my mount came in so I can see my solar images in bright sun lol
- click for cloud prediction for Plymouth, MA. area
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DaemonGPF
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 1466
Loc: New Mexico
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Well, the weather never cooperated long enough for me to attempt a replacement image this month.. However, I just realized, the comments on my existing image were oriented around my first post(of the wrong crater) which I removed. Wondering if I could change that? I'm far beyond the self editing time, so I'm locked out..
-------------------- -Josh
*Orion Starblast Imaging 150mm OTA
*Orion Starblast Imaging 114mm OTA
*Meade 50mm AR short tube OTA
*Meade DSI Pro IIc
*Orion Starshoot DSCI
*CG5 mount
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My Messier Project Gallery
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
   
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6578
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Re: July 08 Bright & DSO Challenge Rules and Comme
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