TeleTex
member
Reged: 01/27/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Texas
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Any news Scott!!!!!!! I hope all is going well.
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Stan
Meade ETX-60AT-BB (60mm Achromatic Refractor)01-30-08
Meade NG-60 Jupiter (60mm Refractor) 12-25-07
Meade 70AZ-A Land & Sky (70mm Refractor) 02-13-08
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Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 812
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Quote:
Any news Scott!!!!!!! I hope all is going well.
Hi Stan,
Pictures to follow, but I thought I'd go ahead and post this tonight. Russ cut the floor, but the saw he used wasn't large enough to cut all the way through the foundation. He got 4.75" - leaving 1"-1.25".
I'm not really happy about that. I've gotten lots of great advice about my issues, but (and correct me if I'm wrong here) not one person has suggested cutting 5/6th of the way through the foundation to mitigate the vibration.
What Russ wanted to do next was drill through the remaining concrete at 1" intervals, and let the concrete naturally break apart over time.
I thought about this, and don't much like the idea. (If anyone thinks that might actually solve my problems, please chime in.)
I did clean out the dome - it really wasn't that messy. I considered reinstalling my equipment so that I could test whether or not this helped - but in the end, I just didn't feel like it was worth trying a half-measure.
So I've asked him to just get a saw that can cut through 6" or so of concrete, and let's just do it the right way before I setup all my equipment again. (Setting all this stuff up for a test is not trivial!)
The only reasons I can see not to use such a saw are:
1. Maybe there really isn't one anywhere reasonably near here. I find this hard to believe, but it's possible. The local construction standards here are poor.
2. Maybe the larger machines won't fit through the door of my dome. (The door is 3' wide.) That type of issue I could understand, and if that's the case, we'll try drilling it and letting nature take its course.
Russ is going to try to find a better saw, but honestly, at this point, I'm getting tempted to just search for one on my own. Either someplace to rent the saw, or a contractor who has one. (If anyone knows someone reliable who might have a concrete saw in NE Oklahoma, feel free to PM me.)
Just getting what I ask for is proving to be really difficult!
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1965healey
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2744
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Hey Scott, in a word NO! "Perforating" the slab won't work, it's not going to break apart on it's own after you do that. If, by some fluke, it did crack in one area "over time" there is no guarantee that the balance of the "cut" would follow suit. There are saws that can cut thru 6" of concrete, in fact there are saws that can cut thru much thicker slabs than that. Go to www.oklahomacurbcut.com 405-292-6262. They are in Norman, just outside of OK City, about 140 miles away. I doubt you'll find anyone closer that actually cuts concrete as a buisness. Ask for Brian. You'll need to have some photos ready to fax to him, make sure you let him know how wide the entry is so he can bring the correct saw. They'll likely use a "wall saw". They'll have one that breaks down into pieces. They'll probably end up drilling some holes to mount a "track" for the saw to "follow" to keep the cuts square and to control the blade depth. They'll use water to cool and lube the blade but they'll clean up after themselves. You'll no doubt pay for travel time and mileage but at this point in time getting it done professionally is going to be worth paying for it. Tell Russ thanks but no thanks and call in the pro's. 
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Celestron Omni 150 XLT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
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Manny Myles
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 2067
Loc: Flatlandia
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Nope won't work, if you can't find a saw that cuts deep enough make a second cut next to it a 1/2"-3/4" apart and get a electric demo hammer to break out that and then final bit of concrete inside the bottom of that area and then you'd know you are through the floor.
Demo hammer link
http://bosch.cpotools.com/hammers_and_hammer_drills/demolition_hammers/
Most rental places have these available in various sizes
Maybe if you did some random drilling in this cut you'd find out just how thick the floor is to help with an outside contractor bring the right stuff.
If you did the second cut and broke out the final bit, then maybe use Great stuff to fill this void and dirt collector.
Must be very frustrating on your end.
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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TeleTex
member
Reged: 01/27/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Texas
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I think if you are paying the guy or have paid the guy to do the work. He should do the job exactly the way you have instructed him to. You have given this guy simple instructions and he can not or dose not want to follow them. I would pull this guy aside and give him a good talking to and remind him that you are in control of this situation and it will be done as directed. If he can not comply it is time to move on. Give him half his pay for the half job he did and dismiss him.
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Stan
Meade ETX-60AT-BB (60mm Achromatic Refractor)01-30-08
Meade NG-60 Jupiter (60mm Refractor) 12-25-07
Meade 70AZ-A Land & Sky (70mm Refractor) 02-13-08
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Pedestal
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/11/06
Posts: 2940
Loc: Smoggy Bottom, Baytown,Texas
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I'm with Karen. At this point, whatever it costs to get the pros in, it's likely a small percentage of your total investment.
Hubert
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www.smoggybottom.org
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Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 812
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Quote:
Go to www.oklahomacurbcut.com 405-292-6262. They are in Norman, just outside of OK City, about 140 miles away. I doubt you'll find anyone closer that actually cuts concrete as a buisness. Ask for Brian. You'll need to have some photos ready to fax to him, make sure you let him know how wide the entry is so he can bring the correct saw.
...
You'll no doubt pay for travel time and mileage but at this point in time getting it done professionally is going to be worth paying for it. Tell Russ thanks but no thanks and call in the pro's.
Wow, Thanks Karen! 
I will give them a call. I really didn't expect anyone would have suggestions on someone who I might call about this. I'd been looking around out here for a professional concrete cutter, but hadn't found one yet.
Quote:
Nope won't work, if you can't find a saw that cuts deep enough make a second cut next to it a 1/2"-3/4" apart and get a electric demo hammer to break out that and then final bit of concrete inside the bottom of that area and then you'd know you are through the floor.
Thanks Manny! I will try this if I can't find a contractor who can just do this for me the right way, with a saw. I sincerely appreciate your professional advice - the resources available in this forum continue to amaze me.
Quote:
I think if you are paying the guy or have paid the guy to do the work. He should do the job exactly the way you have instructed him to.
Hey Stan, in all fairness to Russ, he really is a good carpenter. He's not a concrete guy, and I think dealing with this is new to him. He sub-contracted out the pour of the foundation, and the sub let him down. He hasn't charged me anything else for numerous attempts at fixing the various issues caused by the bad job the concrete guy did.
I think at this point he just wants to get this done, and maybe pride keeps him from admitting that I need to call in an expert. He doesn't like to give up, I can tell you that. He is also a little stubborn. (I suppose part of the problem is that people tell me I'm too nice for my own good. I never really understood what they meant by that, but I think I kinda do now!  )
Quote:
I'm with Karen. At this point, whatever it costs to get the pros in, it's likely a small percentage of your total investment.
You are right, Hubert.
I'll let y'all know what I discover. Sorry this hasn't had a happy ending yet. I took a week of vacation this week, hoping to put my obs. back together and see some stars, so yeah, I am pretty frustrated now.
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Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 812
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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OK, here's where the cuts in the floor are, as of this weekend:
I talked to Brian at Oklahoma Curb Cutting today - I may be able to get him to drive out here and fix this, possibly as soon as this Thursday. I'm crossing my fingers and I'll keep you posted.
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1965healey
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2744
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Pretty much what I expected to see. You need Brian.
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Celestron Omni 150 XLT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
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Manny Myles
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 2067
Loc: Flatlandia
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Even if the cut was thru the floor, the corners in the cut are not overlapped enough to be thru cut so it still would be connected.
Gotta over lap the cut by no less than half blade distance if not a bit more.
When the concrete barber gets there he will do it the right way and your pier will be free.
m2
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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mikey cee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 2193
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Manny....You got that right. Scott once the cuts are clear thru that's it. Then you'll be just like me and a bunch of other CN'ers. If you see no improvement then you've got lousy fill underneath or you're seeing pink elephants!   Mike
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Mike 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957).
Edited by mikey cee (07/02/08 06:25 PM)
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TeleTex
member
Reged: 01/27/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Texas
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That is stand up of him to try and make it right. I think calling in the expert is the right thing to do.
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Stan
Meade ETX-60AT-BB (60mm Achromatic Refractor)01-30-08
Meade NG-60 Jupiter (60mm Refractor) 12-25-07
Meade 70AZ-A Land & Sky (70mm Refractor) 02-13-08
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csa/montana
Astro Ambassador
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 27067
Loc: montana
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Scott, sure hope you get it fixed so you can start observing.
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
AstroTech 66ED / Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Tak LE 5mm
7mm Pentax XL, 10mm Pentax XW
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
22mm Pan, 35mm Pan
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 812
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Quote:
Even if the cut was thru the floor, the corners in the cut are not overlapped enough to be thru cut so it still would be connected.
Brian from Oklahoma curb cutting is coming by tomorrow morning, so hopefully I'll have some happy news to report tomorrow. I'm going to ask him to cut out maybe 3/4" between the pier and floor, and I'll fill that in with backer rod and caulk. Sound good?
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Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 812
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Quote:
Manny....You got that right. Scott once the cuts are clear thru that's it. Then you'll be just like me and a bunch of other CN'ers. If you see no improvement then you've got lousy fill underneath or you're seeing pink elephants! Mike
Pink elephants are a possiblity, yes indeed! :P
Honestly, I know that this may not completely fix my problem. If it does completely fix it - well, that's fantastic, I'll be a happy observer! If it doesn't, I expect it will improve it a lot. But regardless, this is the next logical step before completely tearing stuff down and starting over. Honestly, regardless of how this turns out I'll likely reinstall everything and live with whatever problems remain until I just can't stand it any longer. (Tear-down + rebuilding is just a job and a half.) But I'm hopeful this will fix things - it stands to reason that it will.
Anyway, I should have some nice pictures tomorrow. I won't really know for sure how well it all turned out until I have time to put my observatory back together again!
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1965healey
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 2744
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Glad to hear that Brians coming. Yes to your 3/4" cut and fill idea. Good luck, hope this fixes things!
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1965Healey (Karen)
Woodlawn Lake Observatory
Celestron CPC 800/FT MIcro/APT Wedge
SV NHNG 80mm #0261/CG5-GT
Celestron Omni 150 XLT
Losmandy rails/rings
Starizona CWeight system
Celestron Neximage
Sony a100 DSLR/ZigView S2
Meade DS60's w/Autostar (2)
Meade LPI/Meade DSI-C/DSI ProII
750cc Honda Shadow Spirit (Thanks Dad!)
1965 Austin Healey 3000 MKIII
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Pedestal
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/11/06
Posts: 2940
Loc: Smoggy Bottom, Baytown,Texas
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While the backer/caulk will work, you might consider "insulation in a can". After it expands and dries, skim it level with the concrete with a blade. (sharp putty knife, etc)
Just trying to offer some alternatives, not necessarily better!
Hubert
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www.smoggybottom.org
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Spoonsize
Vendor/Clothing
Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 2056
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If you find that Oklahoma curb cut is too costly, go get the saw you used originally and make a second cut all around the outside of the first cut, about two to three inches. Then with a twenty pound sledge, pound down on the "slot" and break it out. You can then form up to repair and narrow the slot with quick-set. Remove the form and then fill the final crack with the expanding foam as recommended. When it is dry, use a hand saw to cut the protruding foam off flush to the floor.
The sledge will not be easy, but it will be cheap.
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Steve Durham
www.margesmonograms.com
(Marge made me do it)
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Scott K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 812
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Well we got it cut. I'm pretty sure Brian got down through the slab. He felt it would be best to follow the existing cuts, so the result isn't pretty, but I'm hopeful it will do the job.
I spent part of thursday and part of today trying to clear the slurry out of the cut. I used a water hose + shop vac, trying to force the stuff out of the cut. This proved to be surprisingly difficult. I'd thought I had 90% of it on Thursday, but I looked at it again yesterday, and it seemed I'd only removed about 50% of it. I think I got most of the rest of it today. Probably about as much as I'm going to be able to get - I used water pressure, a shop vac, and an air compressor to try to force the remaining gunk out of the cuts.
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Manny Myles
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 2067
Loc: Flatlandia
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Got an old hand powered wood saw to rake thru the cuts, that should break up that stuff and help bring it to the surface to suck up with the vac.
It might not be pretty BUT hopefully effective.
m2
--------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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