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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5280
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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I think that same binocular sells in the US for about $350 these days.
I'm on your side when it comes to having a new product being right in fit, finish, and functioon, no matter the cost.
I'm just trying to be practical. I think it might take going through several pairs to find one that is flawless.
Rich
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GlenM
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 918
Loc: 53° 36'N 2° 06'W
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That was pretty good for a Sunday night.
At your age Kenny you really shouldn't be eating Indian.
There is one good thing though you could be the next big gas find in Britain.
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Glen
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GlenM
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 918
Loc: 53° 36'N 2° 06'W
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Rich,
it's getting more difficult I think. I wouldn't like to keep sending binoculars back until I got a good pair.Not that it happens in the UK. That's the reason I got my newest pair of binoculars from Zach at Garrett. WOW! shipping,vat,import duty,handling fee 
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Glen
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Kenny,
Now I'm finally beginning to UNDERSTAND alittle about the GRAND PRIZE in you Bio.  
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Stephen,
I have returned, I think, more than my share of binoculars, for various reasons. It is RARELY an enjoyable experience. I can't remember if your e-bay purchase was represented as a brand new item or otherwise.
Have you at least looked through it, to SEE if all else is in excellent condition? Speaking for myself, the optics and the views are what would be of primary concern, as well as the mechanics.
Trying to keep internet vendors HONEST could turn out to be a lifetime struggle, to say the least.  Would it be profitable for you to return it?
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP asph FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II asph FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Hi,
Thanks for all your responses. If I'd bought them from a local retailer, I would have had no hesitation in sending them back, But to be honest as long as there is nothing else wrong with them, I don’t think I’m sufficiently bothered enough to take the trouble to return them. I think it was other people putting doublts into my mind.
I must say that I do agree with the people who say that if we buy something new, we have a right to expect cosmetic perfection. Some people have called the binoculars cheap, but everything is relative, and personally, I don't call $530 cheap. But even if they were $20 binoculars, we do have a right to cosmetic perfection if they're bought new.
A last point that I would like to make is that there seems to be many versions of these Kunming 25x100's. Telescope Service does have a high reputation, and they do point out that they have good lens coatings, so I do think I've bought a good version. I have only read good reports about these binoculars, so I'm looking forward to using them. However, I have no way of knowing if the binoculars are the latest FB version or not, So really it is caveat emptor... Buyer beware!
Edited by Stephen.S (06/30/08 10:25 AM)
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5280
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Stephen:
"...we do have a right to cosmetic perfection if they're bought new."
You might expect a product to be cosmetically perfect. However, a manufacturer can make and sell things pretty much any way they
want. You, as a buyer, can buy or not buy. But, I wouldn't call cosmetic perfection, a "right".
If a manufacturer advertises cosmetic perfection then you would have a good reason to complain if the product didn't meet the
advertising claims.
Rich
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Rich,
This is a very legalistic point. Here in the UK, we have The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. This says that traders must sell goods that are as described and of satisfactory quality, and are to a proper standard of workmanship.
Its been a few years since I studied law, but here in the UK, I think we MAY have a right to cosmetic perfection. However, I bought my Binoculars from Germany. And I know nothing about European Union consumer law. As far as trade is concerned, we now effectively live in “The United States of Europe”, so I would have guessed a similar type of consumer law does exists.
Stephen
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Shortymx
super member
Reged: 10/31/07
Posts: 127
Loc: 20º 41' N 101º 24' W
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So really it is caveat emptor... Buyer beware!
Caveat venditor also applies, and it's up to the buyers to keep the vendors honest.
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Shortymx
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5280
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Hi Stephen,
Someone could argue that the act you describe above does not necessarily imply that you have a right to expect cosmetic perfection. What is the definition of "satisfactory quality". What is the definition of "a proper standard of workmanship"? Do those terms really mean perfection in the cosmetic finish of a product, and in this case a binocular (ignoring for now that you bought it outside of the UK)?
Rich
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Hi Rich,
This is a very fair point, and to answer it I would have to study the law in detail and look at case law precedent. However, in a way, its an irrelevant point, as Telescope Service is a very well respected company in Europe, and I expect that they would give me a full refund if I wanted one. BTW, I don't, I'm looking forward too much to using them!
But I would say, that some way of distinguish between the different versions should be found, eg, Obwerk, TS, Straphsprey etc, they all look the same.
Stephen
Edited by Stephen.S (07/01/08 02:55 PM)
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Stephen.S
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 22
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Hi,
Just thought that I would let you know how this issue ended up. After several email to Telescope Service and a few pictures, they said that the scratching was normal and they must have been done during their testing.
I'm pleased to hear that they tested the binoculars, but I still don't think its acceptable to sell new binoculars with cosmetic faults. However, I don't intend to send them back. And I at least thank the company for their good communication.
Best wishes
Stephen
Edited by Stephen.S (07/02/08 10:40 AM)
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2360
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I would rather have a binocular that has been tested than one that is cosmetically perfect. Should testing damage the finish? No, absolutely not, not if the finish is of any decent quality- and then it becomes a matter of the quality of the finish of the item in question. As I stated earlier, my 20x110 Garrett's center post scratched through the finish on the post almost immediately. Powdercoating, anodizing, or plating would probably render a more dureable finish than paint, which is what the center post appears to be covered with- judging by the lack of durability of the finish. This is, apparently- one of the shortcuts the Chinese optics manufacturers choose to take to cut costs.
Wes
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1745
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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An important question is: Are you going to hold onto these for a very long time? If you think you might be selling them in a year or two, having cosmetic blemishes will reduce the price you can sell them at and for that reason alone might be an important consideration.
On the other hand, if you anticipate holding onto them for a long time, I wouldn't worry about it - you'll end up causing a few cosmetic scratches here and there yourself over time!
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