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tegea
sage
Reged: 11/29/04
Posts: 390
Loc: France
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I'll give it a try with my small FS-60 fluorite doublet.
-------------------- Thierry
Intes MN61 (Orion Argonaut version) - Televue TV76 - Takahashi FS-60C
http://thierry_gauthier.perso.sfr.fr/anglais/index.html
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
   
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 14135
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Thanks Thierry. Looking forward to hearing the results.
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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tegea
sage
Reged: 11/29/04
Posts: 390
Loc: France
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I tested with my FS-60 and it also works !
Without any diagonal : - the intrafocal star test shows a good amount of red outside the rings - the extrafocal shows some green ouside the rings
With the Tak prism diagonal : - the intrafocal shows a lot less red outside the rings, but there is still some - the extrafocal shows some green/yellow outside the rings
So the red is refocused by the prims, but not completely (without the prims, there is more red than in the TV76). So the prims seems to quite completely correct the TV76 and to enhance a lot the FS60C. To make the red completely disapear in the FS60C, I need to add the Tak extender-Q 1.6x : then, with the tak prism, it becomes perfect.
-------------------- Thierry
Intes MN61 (Orion Argonaut version) - Televue TV76 - Takahashi FS-60C
http://thierry_gauthier.perso.sfr.fr/anglais/index.html
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rvb
member
Reged: 04/23/08
Posts: 20
Loc: France
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I sold my two diagonals mirrors for two Baader/zeiss prism diagonals(1.25"/2") and the image is defenitly sharper and nicer on my three refractors (Borg, Skywatcher and TMB). It's an expensive change but it worth it!
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diggy
sage
Reged: 05/09/04
Posts: 305
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
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Ok, guess I'll add my 2c worth to this. It's been miserable weather around here...what clear sky we've had has been very unsteady: not too good for testing optics I did manage a few quick looks a few nights, but hard to judge things with such shaky viewing. Last night finally was not bad for my suburban area: a little hazy but fairly steady (around Pickering 7, I'd say). First up: Jupiter. At my lat. it's pretty low, so not expecting too much. With my standard 2" WO mirror diagonal, at 70x I could clearly distinguish the two belts, but not much else. I swapped in the 1.25" Celestron prism diagonal I recently bought and saw a minor improvement. Things seemed just a little sharper...not much, but a little. I had a hint of other structure in the bands. With the 1.25" I saw a bit of red fringe along one edge of the planet (confirming what has been said elsewhere about CA correcion in doublets.) What I did notice was a drop in brightness with the 1.25 diagonal. So, it occurred to me that the reduced glare might account for the improvement. So I tried out some filters of various colours. In all cases, with filters, I could distinguish no difference between the two diagonals.
On to some bright stars. With various eyepices, I could distinguish little or no difference in sharpness between the two diagonals. In a couple of instances (didn't write down which stars, should have), I did notice a tendency to see the red CA with the 1.25 diag, whereas I might get a hint of violet with the 2", but very minor. I did a star test (alpha Cass, I think). Here I did notice a difference. The re was a marked improvement in the similarity of the patterns inside and outside focus. However, the 1.25 diagonal showed quite a bright greenish ring inside focus...have no idea what that's about.)
On to double stars. Both Eta Cass and Iota Cass easily split at low powers (gotta love that 110 Megrez!) Here I got a little confused. I did a LOT of swapping between eyepieces and diagonals. I'd begin to think I favoured the 1.25" for sharpness, then the 2" would seem better. I finally decided that the difference was within the margin of variability of the seeing.
For DSOs (M15, for example) there was no difference in clarity, except a decidedly dimmer view in the 1.25" diagonal, as might be expected.
So, my final thoughts. There may be a slight improvement in using the 1.25" diagonal. However, it's such a hassle to swap it in and out. My Nagler 9T6 won't come to focus in the 1.25". I frequently use 2" eyepieces (33mm WO SWAN and Nagler 22 Pan). And perhaps my scope does not benefit as much as those of some others.
So I suspect over time, I'll reserve the 1.25" diagonal for special situations, like high-power planetary viewing (I need more examples than a low in the sky Jupiter).
-------------------- WO 110mm Megrez doublet on an HEQ-5 mount
Nikon 10x50 binocs
"Beyond here be there"
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
   
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 14135
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Hi Diggy. Did you manage to test (compare) the views at high magnifications? I've noticed the most improvement when getting above 100x. The more magnification, the easier it seems to be to tell the difference. At 150x, 200x and up, there's no comparison... but everybody's scope is different and what works in one might not be so effective in another.
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Jan Owen
sage
Reged: 02/12/06
Posts: 410
Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
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Whew!!!
This is getting better and better as it goes along...
Although I still haven't de-wimped yet, I'm leaning heavily toward buying a 1.25" Vixen prism diagonal. Not because of any preference, but because YOU have bought a Tak and a Baader... I'm holding back on the Baader, thinking it may not offer much change, and hoping you will confirm that, one way or the other, when you try them on your Sky Watcher 120...
From what I gather, your old Celestron outperformed the Tak you bought (outperformed is really not be a good choice of words, here, since it's more a function of how they handle the light as it passes through, and not that they *exactly* make any *corrections* by intent)...
So, since I don't recall anyone saying anything about the Vixen, which is made in Japan, and "fully multicoated", or words to that effect (as are the two old Meades I'll test, which were ALSO made in Japan and multicoated)...
But maybe another datapoint (the Vixen) will be of some use to someone (maybe even ME)...
So, we'll see how it all plays out over time... I figure it'll still probably be two or three weeks (the monsoon will be over, and may BE over, but it's still HOT out there, and I HATE sweating all over my optics)before I get the Vixen diagonal and get fully de-wimped, build up my old-fart desert-rat mentality again, and get back OUT there...
...and it ain't just THIS testing; I'm not finished testing my new EON 120!!! So I have LOTS of work ahead!!! Heheheh!
Jan
-------------------- Keep on looking up...
Meade 60mm f/11.7 achro refractor from WAY back...
Vernonscope 94mm f/7 Brandon triplet Apo
Orion EON ED 120mm f/7.5
Celestron 5.5" f/3.6 Comet Catcher Schmidt-Newt
8" f/6 Newtonian w/Spooner optics on Atlas G mount
Meade 10" f/10 SCT
12" f/5 Meade LightBridge Dob/Newt
13.1" f/4.5 Coulter Odyssey early Dob/Newt
Many eyepieces and accessories
Always lusting after large MCT, but never buy one
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
   
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 14135
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Hi Jan. The Vixen prism diagonal looks like a good one. Should be fine quality and since we haven't heard much about them, you'd be providing a service by volunteering to try it out!
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Jan Owen
sage
Reged: 02/12/06
Posts: 410
Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
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Hi, Clive,
Glad to help provide additional data for the common database on this subject. Especially if it should actually improve the EON 120's images (not that I'm in the slightest unhappy with the EON!!!)... Even if it doesn't, it's a worthwhile exercise.
I just placed the order with our long-time friends at Astronomics...
Jan
-------------------- Keep on looking up...
Meade 60mm f/11.7 achro refractor from WAY back...
Vernonscope 94mm f/7 Brandon triplet Apo
Orion EON ED 120mm f/7.5
Celestron 5.5" f/3.6 Comet Catcher Schmidt-Newt
8" f/6 Newtonian w/Spooner optics on Atlas G mount
Meade 10" f/10 SCT
12" f/5 Meade LightBridge Dob/Newt
13.1" f/4.5 Coulter Odyssey early Dob/Newt
Many eyepieces and accessories
Always lusting after large MCT, but never buy one
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bob midiri
sage
   
Reged: 06/17/04
Posts: 406
Loc: pa 19320
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Jan there might be a number of used Celestron made in Japan 1.25" prism diagonals on the used market. I have two of these that I had from older telescopes. I am using one on each of my refractors!! Bob
-------------------- Homemade 16"F6.5 dob(Stellafane optical winner 1996) and 22.6" F4.9 homemade mirrors, 10"F7 dob (Stellafane optical winner 2nd 2009)
Celestron Ultima 9.25
Meade 30 UWA5K,34&28mmSWA 5k,14mmUWA4K/UWA 8.8mm 4K/ES 14mm100degree/panoptic 22mm/nagler11mmT6/7mmT1/3.5mmT6/Meade SWA4K 40mm /T.V.WF 19mm and 15mm, Cel AXIOM LX 23mm/15mm
Celestron C6RGT w DS moonlight focuser
Cave 10"F6 Super Chrome deluxe
C80ED F7.5
SW PRO ED 120 W.O dual speed focuser
Sears 80F15 model 3#4454
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Jan Owen
sage
Reged: 02/12/06
Posts: 410
Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
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No doubt!!!
I already own two Meade made in Japan Multicoated prism diagonals from the mid to late 1980's that I'll use in the testing... And, of course, the Vixen...
From what I can tell, the Vixen is probably virtually identical to the two Meades I already have, other than the band that has become trendy to machine into the tube, alegedly to stop the diagonal, or eyepieces, or whatever, from falling off, if the set screw loosens up (they never loosen up, but some folks forget to tighten them and SAY they loosened up)...
What's funny about that is now, the same folks have talked the makers into putting compression bands in place of the set screws, and the compression bands don't always align perfectly with the matching ones on eyepiece barrels and other accessories, like diagonals, so the hang up, dont insert nicely, or are hard to remove... What a JOKE!!!
In any event, the Vixen is estimated to arrive next Tuesday...
I sure don't need any MORE diagonals... So this one will do, unless I decide to get a Baader, which I tend to doubt, based on the glass used, and it's different refractive index, versus the correction of my EON 120...
-------------------- Keep on looking up...
Meade 60mm f/11.7 achro refractor from WAY back...
Vernonscope 94mm f/7 Brandon triplet Apo
Orion EON ED 120mm f/7.5
Celestron 5.5" f/3.6 Comet Catcher Schmidt-Newt
8" f/6 Newtonian w/Spooner optics on Atlas G mount
Meade 10" f/10 SCT
12" f/5 Meade LightBridge Dob/Newt
13.1" f/4.5 Coulter Odyssey early Dob/Newt
Many eyepieces and accessories
Always lusting after large MCT, but never buy one
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Jan Owen
sage
Reged: 02/12/06
Posts: 410
Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
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The Vixen 1.25 inch prism star diagonal arrived a few minutes ago...
It appears to be EXACTLY the same prism star diagonal as the 20 year old (+) Meade, with two exceptions. It has internal threads on the objective side of the prism to serve as micro-baffles, which are nicely coated in uniform flat black. The Meade is nicely flat-blacked, but without the threads... This probably IS a reasonable improvement...
And the Vixen has the ubiquitous flat band machined into the outside of the incoming barrel to meet the needs of the trendy folks who can't STAND to have a set-screw mark on their eyepieces, but who are willing to put up with that band hanging up on their equally trendy compression-band equipped accessories...
We'll soon wee if there's any OTHER difference, where actual performance is concerned...
As soon as we can get past the monsoon season...
Jan
-------------------- Keep on looking up...
Meade 60mm f/11.7 achro refractor from WAY back...
Vernonscope 94mm f/7 Brandon triplet Apo
Orion EON ED 120mm f/7.5
Celestron 5.5" f/3.6 Comet Catcher Schmidt-Newt
8" f/6 Newtonian w/Spooner optics on Atlas G mount
Meade 10" f/10 SCT
12" f/5 Meade LightBridge Dob/Newt
13.1" f/4.5 Coulter Odyssey early Dob/Newt
Many eyepieces and accessories
Always lusting after large MCT, but never buy one
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
   
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 14135
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Looks seriously good, Jan.
Hope the weather improves soon!
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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